"Old Knives"

Augie said:
An interesting pair of knives from the same era in todays mail. A well used Case XX green bone pruner, spent a lot of time in someones pocket, spring has turned black from sweat, very sharp and still great snap.
Other is a short line Camillus #12 jack, 3 1/2" and looks to be unused. Can find very few examples of this knife.
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Nice #12 Augie :thumbsup:
I have a four line #12 although there is no #12 stamp on the main blade. All steel construction.





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I've got a mysterious knife here. Marked Richard(?) Lowe Sheffield.
Swayback with horn covers and a shield. I'm wondering if it was originally a Lambsfoot. What do you think, Jack Black Jack Black ?

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I'm a little confused as to where the term "cold stamped" came from. As far as I know tang stamps were never hot stamped, at least not from the late 1800's on. They've always been hammered or pressed into cold blade blanks whether forged or blanked from steel sheets. Yes I know that some nefarious individuals re-stamp tangs and that can usually be pretty obvious but it doesn't mean every photo of what appears to be raised edge tang stamps proves it to be a counterfeit knife. Edges can be slightly raised on factory tang stamped blades as well depending on what was or wasn't done to the blades post stamping. Sometimes it's just a matter of how the lighting is hitting the blade. Here are two photos of a Camillus TL-29 type knife I just pulled off the internet. It's legit but you can see how the light angle from one of the photos seems to show some raised edges. If the tang wasn't polished or smoothed after stamping that's what it looks like, at least on Camillus blades of that period. I've seen the same on other brands as well.

Camillus Four Line Stamp (2).jpg

Camillus Four Line Stamp 2.jpg


Eric
 
I refer you to "Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery" published in 1997 by the NKCA with contributions (examples) by every major collector of the times.
300 pages with direct, excellent photos per page. They use the term "cold stamp" for those with excessive bulging on the letter edges. There may be some visible bulging on factory stamps; depends on force used, amount of steel displaced, temperature of steel, etc. I've heard the term for the 65+ years of my collecting career. Also letter spacing is critical - should be even - Note the U S A above. I don't claim any great expertise, but I think this book is a must for any/all serious collectors. Not trying to start a flame war, just pointing out what I feel is unusual about the above mentioned tang stamp.
 
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Thanks very much for clarifying that, Eric.:thumbsup::thumbsup: Your many years of experience working in the cutlery industry certainly give authority to your comments.
I may be wrong, but, I believe the tang stamps are done prior to the blade being heat treated? When a counterfeiter restamps a blade, he is stamping it into hardened steel. That may cause the steel to bulge up more at the letter edges? Maybe where the term "cold stamp" came from??

I also have a copy of "Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery" and have spent a lot of time going through it. It is an excellent resource.
 
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Rich S said:
Also letter spacing is critical - should be even - Note the U S A above. I don't claim any great expertise, but I think this book is a must for any/all serious collectors. Not trying to start a flame war, just pointing out what I feel is unusual about the above mentioned tang stamp.
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On four line Camillus examples I own, the U.S.A. is not spaced even. The S. is closer to the U. than it is the A.

Also, the angle you look at it or photograph it makes a difference.
 
Primble said:
On four line Camillus examples I own, the U.S.A. is not spaced even. The S. is closer to the U. than it is the A.

Also, the angle you look at it or photograph it makes a difference.
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Yes I've seen that myself, on some it's more pronounced than others which is probably a result of different tang stamp manufacturers, or a different time period between them. I think the reason for this is that on those old four liners there were unbracketed serifs at the base of the A's (kind if like this: A) with some more pronounced than others. This is pretty obvious when the stamp is fresh but when it's worn and the serifs are worn away the A appears to be spaced apart.

Eric
 
Alfred Field & Co, or A.Field, was started in 1836 according to BRL!
One of the brand names or trademarks they gave their folding knives was PROGRESS. They had knives made in England, Germany and the USA!! Schrade made a lot of them from before WWI until they closed in 1942.
They had knives made in Germany also, until WWII! 😲
Here is a fairly old Scout, made in Germany, with the Progress trademark on it.(Needs a little rust removal!)A Field 1.jpgA Field 2.jpg
Tang stamp;
A. Field&Co
Progress (7?)
GermanyA Field 3.jpg
A. (crown image)F.
GermanyA Field 4.jpg
[Looks like a mis-drilled rivet repair!]
The knife has nice Jigged and grooved Bone handles!!
 
New York Knife Co. celluloid. I have posted this before, but, photos were from my smart phone that ain't as smart as the manufacturer thinks, when it comes to color. DSLR got the color right. :

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Maybe I will put this on my keychain, in case it ever gasses out, it will just corrode my keys ............. and ignition switch .............................. or not. 😊
 
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I enjoyed the topic of the Cold Stamping- I do remember that this was brought to light to me some time ago where fakers would come in after the fact and do their thing, It's great that we have someone like Eric who has the hands on Knowledge of working in one of the Elite Cutler firms ( and now owns one ) who is willing to sprinkle a little knowledge among us - Eric I am sure that I can very safely state that we appreciate this very much :thumbsup: :)

Cold stamps can also have a bulging raise ( or shoulder ) leading up to the sharper "edge" that really catches the light of the stamping, and Its great that Rich approached this as he is right that the term is mentioned a lot, so it wouldnt be hard for us to pick this up thinking we have learnt - I too in the past have pointed out "Cold Stamping" so I am just as guilty, so again Thank you Eric.

Once we get to handle the older Knives- also study our friends treasures they share with us here - we can use comparisons on the Fonts used - sizes etc when we think a stamping may look out of place, once you get to know a certain makers stamp- you can pick up differences fairly quickly!

Me personally have made far too many mistakes in the buying of Knives, so I am the last in the queue to give advice, I am hoping that I am at the stage where I am a little more sensible and not get too excited when finding a beauty - and take the time to look before I leap
 
Primble said:
New York Knife Co. celluloid. I have posted this before, but, photos were from my smart phone that ain't as smart as the manufacturer thinks, when it comes to color. DSLR got the color right. :

View attachment 1895383

Maybe I will put this on my keychain, in case it ever gasses out, it will just corrode my keys ............. and ignition switch .............................. or not. 😊
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My favorite celluloid!
 
I've never had a preference either way as to pen behind or in front of the main blade. At least on new knives.
After a hundred years or so of sharpening and then filing kicks, a pen-in-front can be a problem.

This Majestic Cutlery is still usable, but if I want to use the main blade, I have to open the pen blade first.

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Unless you filed the kick down a tad on the pen R8shell?? That way it may provide access to the Long Pull?
That knife has had a great life!
 
Campbellclanman said:
Unless you filed the kick down a tad on the pen R8shell?? That way it may provide access to the Long Pull?
That knife has had a great life!
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I'm pretty sure it would have to come down too far and then neither blade would be accessible. I also tried putting a matchstick under the main blade, but it has to come up so far, the tip is well exposed.
Oh well, I can still sharpen the pen blade and use it for opening packages and cutting string. :)
 
waynorth said:
Alfred Field & Co, or A.Field, was started in 1836 according to BRL!
One of the brand names or trademarks they gave their folding knives was PROGRESS. They had knives made in England, Germany and the USA!! Schrade made a lot of them from before WWI until they closed in 1942.
They had knives made in Germany also, until WWII! 😲
Here is a fairly old Scout, made in Germany, with the Progress trademark on it.(Needs a little rust removal!)View attachment 1895271View attachment 1895273
Tang stamp;
A. Field&Co
Progress (7?)
GermanyView attachment 1895280
A. (crown image)F.
GermanyView attachment 1895282
[Looks like a mis-drilled rivet repair!]
The knife has nice Jigged and grooved Bone handles!!
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Charlie that's a great example! Whoever repaired that hole did a fantastic job of filling it! Probably had to hammer the offset pin in first then drill right alongside it.

Here's another A. Field scout, an unusual Schrade Cut Co contract knife (The shield's a dead giveaway). First and only one I've seen:


Schrade Cut Co A. Field Scout.jpg


Great looking knives as usual everyone, I love the variety that are posted here!

Eric
 
ea42 said:
Charlie that's a great example! Whoever repaired that hole did a fantastic job of filling it! Probably had to hammer the offset pin in first then drill right alongside it.

Here's another A. Field scout, an unusual Schrade Cut Co contract knife (The shield's a dead giveaway). First and only one I've seen:


View attachment 1896689


Great looking knives as usual everyone, I love the variety that are posted here!

Eric
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Wonderful knife!! Great Etch, and marked blades!! Looks like a WWI era knife!!
 
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