The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Nice Cuban - I've not heard of their Black Stag!! Cool!!!Charlie, that Hunter has the "poppin'est" popcorn stag I've ever seen, just magnificent!
And on Black Stag, the last of the GEC #53 Cuban Stockmen I acquired to complete my collection was a 1 of 2 in Black Stag. I don't recall seeing GEC use it in any other knife (maybe Darren could correct me on that).
I generally won't comment on the originality of anyone's knife unless asked and or more likely asks me directly. I don't like hate mail.
I think your intentions are good, but, even the best laid plans can go astray. I want to give you some friendly food for thought.
There are some folks that don't care if a knife is original, different from most people collecting old knives that want a fine collection of original knives.
There are people that don't care so much about the history.
There are people that have different standards for obtaining an old knife and the longer most people collect, the more particular they get.
I bet you couldn't get an agreement right here in this thread of what constitutes a counterfeit knife.
To me a counterfeit knife is one that is presented as original and is not ....... or a copy catted old knife where the seller wants to make you think it is original. Deception, if you will.
In your example above, I would say it is not original, but, I wouldn't say it is counterfeited because I think everything about it is original except the blade ....... and I don't know the intent.
I would call your example a Frankenknife, a very poor attempt to replace a blade, but, I can see why they might have wanted to because if you look at the body of the knife, it's old and right handsome. I would guess the knife to previously be a fine old pruning knife. I wouldn't offer a dollar for it because I don't swap blades, but, somebody with skills to do it right might.
I have never tried to replace a blade on any of my knives, but, early on in my collecting, I sent an old knife off for a broken pen blade delete and a re-handle. I doubt I ever will again because I already have my collections near where I wanted them to be. I never intended to sell it and wouldn't sell it and never had any intent to deceive anyone .... I wanted it that way for me ..... and it turned out great. Now ....... after I kick the bucket .... if my son later decides to sell my old knives, he wouldn't know because it was a well done re-handle and he might present it as original, if somebody asked ..... but he would be going on his best judgement (because he does not collect old knives) and not be intending to deceive anyone.
I see others that looks in the catalogs and if the old knife is not in it, they get suspicious. Well ..... not all knives made the catalogs .... I can promise that. So I would say looking in catalogs proves a knife was made, but, catalogs do not prove it was not made.
Then ... you get into the territories of what is acceptable and what is not ? I know what is acceptable to me, but, what is acceptable to you or Duncan or Cal or Charlie or Lloyd or Rachel, etc.
Very likely different.
To give everybody a good example ..... say Michael has an old Cattaruagus knife laying around that is completely original and he acquired it early on in his collecting and the pen blade was broken or wore out. Years later, he runs across another of the exact same model and with a pristine pen blade, but, the bone has bad cracks or is missing ..... so he gets to thinking ..... you know I might be able to get Eric to swap those identical pen blades.... he runs it by Eric, and he does it for him. Now he has the knife he always wanted .... (maybe couldn't find a better example) and it has a genuine Cattaraugus pen blade from the same model in it. So .... what is wrong with that ? The knife is no longer as original, but, now it is a good knife. Is that acceptable or not acceptable ? I surely would not call it counterfeited, especially if he did not describe it specifically as original at a point of sell. I would likely call it a repaired knife.
I would hate to see a counterfeited thread allowed anywhere in the traditional forums here, as it has earned a reputation for being mostly friendly and I would hate to see a rift get started. People might get really mad and leave or assign you sad emojis all the time.
I think the term counterfeited causes alarm. How about a thread that describes what to look for in non original knives, as an alternative ?
A thread that discusses, without using someone else's photos or someone else's knife, things to look for to avoid getting took. Like hammered pins and spun pins, the size of pins in the real old knives, do they match the tang stamp era, the whole look of the knife such as pocket worn bone and nearly pristine blades. Things like .. when did hammered pins start to disappear vs. spun pins, things that people with a good deal of experience still wonder about. When did pick bone start to disappear ? Which manufacturers tang stamped all blades vs. ones that just stamped the main ? Posts that address that some more modern companies re-produced some of the old knife companies knives legally and what to look for.
Things like seller does not accept returns vs. does accept returns. Does not accept sets off alarms in my head. Does accept means that if I closely look the knife over when I get it and think it is not original means I can send it back for refund, which comforts me. Feedback ...... look it over. Things you said, like the blade doesn't open right or stops at an odd angle when opened, visible bolster pins. Photos of a knife that don't show it fully opened concerns me. It might be wore out. Absence of any description of snap concerns me. ....... and so on.
I hope I didn't say anything to upset you, but, if I did .... I promise I was trying not to and that might tell you where a thread for counterfeit knives might go. For Facebook, it might or might not work out. ........... and you asked.
Now ... I'm tired of typing, thank goodness for all of you.
Primble
and Duncan,
Campbellclanman
. However, I don't believe Mike is suggesting that members start offering unsolicited comments about the authenticity of knives posted in other threads. The counterfeit thread on AAPK consists mostly of ebay auctions of bad knives. Members also post ebay knives they are considering bidding on, and others they are looking to buy, to ask if the knife is right or not. Many times it is a good knife. For the most part, there is very minimal animosity created by the thread on AAPK. This won't work on Blade Forums due to the ban on posting active ebay auctions. However, Rob's idea of a thread detailing things to watch out for when evaluating knives, with the use of pictures, is good. Those who have questionable knives could post pictures and point out the things that lead them to question the knife. A thread of this nature would be a great learning opportunity for a lot of us. There is also Bernard Levine's forum where members are quick to point out knives that are not right.
btb01
, and all other members, for questioning the EO notch on his Keen Kutter daddy barlow. And thanks to Charlie for posting his daddy barlows with EO notches. It gently pointed out my error, even if that was not his intent.Huh.....Never heard of W Winsted. Been to Winsted many times, I know people there, used to work in the area too.....
A beauty John!!
It's in Goins' book.
"Winsted and West Winsted"!!
Did some looking.....Turns out its just a colloquial term for a specific part town. 100 years ago or so if you looked at a local map, everything west of what is now Winsted center was West Winsted, everything to the east of the center was East Winsted. Now its all just the incorporated city of Winsted, population 7700, which is in turn part of the Town of Winchester......It's in Goins' book.
My friend who lives in Winsted confirms that it exists.
I googled a map, labeled "Winsted and West Winsted"!!
Looks like West Winsted has evolved into a "colloquialism" over the years as Winsted has grown/evolved from separate townships into a city, as has happened to many of our overcrowded cities over the years!! Sweet Dreams, Rob!!This ain't going to go well when I lay me down to sleep tonight ........ I just know it !
Let's see .................
Winstead, W Winstead, Empire = Highland, Winstead + 100 or 150 = Winchester, West Lake now East Lake, 183 + 44 = 7700 ...... I think I got it !
View attachment 2139047
On another note, I would like to apologize to Barrett
Nice knives, Barrett!! Extra special because they are from within your family!! Probably both from Sears; the cut-out liners provide extra room for the blades! Good practical features for useful knives!! Chock full of nostalgia!! That they remain usable attests to their quality!! Lucky man!!!No apology necessary! I’m very much new when it comes to old knives, so I appreciate any info, resulting discussions, corrections and re-corrections.
Here are a couple old(ish) knives, one of which I’ve posted before, but I think it has some connection to the one I haven’t, so I’ll post both.
This stockman is a knife I got from my maternal grandfather when I was a kid. I don’t remember the details, but it was probably something I found while digging around in his garage or desk, and he let me keep it. I’ve had this knife since I maybe 10 years old, and I used it like any 10 year old might use a knife (i.e., roughly), but it’s still in good enough shape.
That knife was actually one of the first things I posted here on the Porch, looking for information on who made it, how old it might be, etc. The consensus at the time was that it was likely made by Camillus for Sears/Craftsman, which would make sense, as my grandpa bought just about everything at Sears.
This second knife just recently came into my possession. My mom found it in a box of stuff that had been in my dad’s desk, and gave it to me when we were home at Christmas.
I immediately noticed a couple features that reminded me of the larger stockman. Both are stamped “MADE IN USA” on the tang of the main blade, with no other stamps or identifying marks. They also both have a double brass liner on one side, something I remember being pointed out as curious when I first posted the stockman.
I don’t know if these were made around the same time or by the same manufacturer, but I found the similarities interesting, and for me personally they make a nice pair as one was my grandpa’s and the other was my dad’s.
Here are a few photos of the knives together.
Here you can see the double brass liners. On both knives, the inner liner is cut away in the blade well.
I understand not wanting to burst anyone's bubble with unsolicited opinions.
Now that's just plain cool. Love the inlays.
