"Old Knives"

[Duckdog]

Thanks for the comments, guys. I wince at the irony of cutting my cigar ends with the doctor's knife, but it works so well.
- Stuart

 

[LongBlade]

Great looking Ulster Stuart .. lovely bone for sure!!

Here is the Empire Stabber Jack I mentioned a few pages back as I finally took some photos of this knife. The blade is not a saber grind but it is noted in Levine’s that stabber jacks were not necessarily saber grind blades but also single spear point blades .. all were regular jacks between 3 & 1/2” to 4” (there were 2 references to stabber jacks in the jack knife section – in any case nice big double swedge on a larger single blade in all examples)… I like stabber jacks as they remind me of jumbo boys knives ;-)) …

This Empire at 3 & 3/4” has brass liners and pins with a horn handle (and no bug bites - always nice to find horn with no bug damage ;-)… I believe the tang stamp is abit more rare but can use some opinions – “Empire Knife Co / W Winsted / CONN” – at least compared to those stamped Empire / Winsted / CT which are seen most often (and on the majority of my Empire knives as well)… Perhaps Charlie (Waynorth) who no doubt has seen alot of Empires or someone else can help shed some light on the possible dates when this tang stamp was used?? Goins does not have this exact stamp listed and he only notes one with W Winsted but Empire / W Winsted / CT (1880-1930) and not “Knife Co” nor “CONN” … but in reading about Empire history it seemed early knives used this stamp (at least W Winsted) and then it was used again in the later 1800s (post 1880) when W Winsted again became a site of the shop - but in truth not clear to me among references… I am just guessing (maybe hoping ) and I can be wrong but I’m thinking this stamp was earlier than later… but any info would be much appreciated!! I know for many companies best we can do with tang stamp dating is just a range of dates and sometimes hard to pinpoint a range other than the company’s dates of existence.

Thanks!!
Lee

Cheers!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Wow - nice old Empire Lee!

 

[Campbellclanman]

The actual knives!!
Thanks to David Clark, for the ad and the cutlery!!
There is a Barlow in the last pic to show thickness and length.View attachment 757208 View attachment 757209 View attachment 757210

Just had to bring these great old Knives forward. It was a treat seeing them " in the flesh " and gave Charlie tell us about them.

 

[waynorth]

That is a nice early Empire, Lee. West Winsted was one of the first locations of Empire Knife Co.
There is some confusion with relocation, and city/boundary and name changes. I will try and dig up more info. Great knife!!

 

[LongBlade]

Thanks Duncan and Charlie - much appreciated ... and thanks very much Charlie for that info and any other you may find regarding the stamp!! Early sounds good Charlie as you noted ...

 

[paulhilborn]

Stuart, Lee, Duncan...amazing knives added to this great thread

Stuart, I have never seen an Ulster doctors knife, thanks for that. It's an AWESOME piece

Lee, I LOVE the EMPIRE. Charlie gifted me a single blade EMPIRE barlow before, thanks again Charlie our family furniture store was named Empire Home Furnishings, so anything Empire was sought after. My wife and I purchased the last furniture store in our town two years ago and renamed it Empire Home Furnishings, to say that made my Dad proud was an understatement

Duncan, I never tire looking at your knives (all of them) but the bronze shield Scout is AMAZING I think it's so cool that the blade/s ride on bronze bushings/washers

 

[Mike Robuck]

Thanks for posting those pictures Lee. I like the matchstrike pull on that one. That knife looks like it can handle just about anything.

 

[herder]

This Ulster is a very Nice Cattle Knife, The etch is original- I have had the most careful look at this Knife- amazing Build- it's a real nice Knife that is welcomed to NZ!

Fantastic group of campers!!!
But Duncan my friend, you need help...
In sorting and organizing so many great knives.

 

[herder]

I like this Ulster physician's knife (3 5/8" closed), but my only (and paltry) Ulster tang stamp list doesn't show the stamp used here "ULSTER (over) KNIFECO." so I'm not sure of its age.

- Stuart

Nice physicians knife. I was told there was a thread for these models but couldn't find it???

 

[herder]

Great looking Ulster Stuart .. lovely bone for sure!!

Here is the Empire Stabber Jack I mentioned a few pages back as I finally took some photos of this knife. The blade is not a saber grind but it is noted in Levine’s that stabber jacks were not necessarily saber grind blades but also single spear point blades .. all were regular jacks between 3 & 1/2” to 4” (there were 2 references to stabber jacks in the jack knife section – in any case nice big double swedge on a larger single blade in all examples)… I like stabber jacks as they remind me of jumbo boys knives ;-)) …

This Empire at 3 & 3/4” has brass liners and pins with a horn handle (and no bug bites - always nice to find horn with no bug damage ;-)… I believe the tang stamp is abit more rare but can use some opinions – “Empire Knife Co / W Winsted / CONN” – at least compared to those stamped Empire / Winsted / CT which are seen most often (and on the majority of my Empire knives as well)… Perhaps Charlie (Waynorth) who no doubt has seen alot of Empires or someone else can help shed some light on the possible dates when this tang stamp was used?? Goins does not have this exact stamp listed and he only notes one with W Winsted but Empire / W Winsted / CT (1880-1930) and not “Knife Co” nor “CONN” … but in reading about Empire history it seemed early knives used this stamp (at least W Winsted) and then it was used again in the later 1800s (post 1880) when W Winsted again became a site of the shop - but in truth not clear to me among references… I am just guessing (maybe hoping ) and I can be wrong but I’m thinking this stamp was earlier than later… but any info would be much appreciated!! I know for many companies best we can do with tang stamp dating is just a range of dates and sometimes hard to pinpoint a range other than the company’s dates of existence.

Thanks!!
Lee

Cheers!

Wonderful old Empire Lee. I see that model with a slightly different stamp "Empire" over "Knife Co." over "Winstead Ct." in 1906.
Charlie would know better on dating.

 

[Duckdog]

Stuart, Lee, Duncan...amazing knives added to this great thread

Stuart, I have never seen an Ulster doctors knife, thanks for that. It's an AWESOME piece

Lee, I LOVE the EMPIRE. Charlie gifted me a single blade EMPIRE barlow before, thanks again Charlie our family furniture store was named Empire Home Furnishings, so anything Empire was sought after. My wife and I purchased the last furniture store in our town two years ago and renamed it Empire Home Furnishings, to say that made my Dad proud was an understatement

Duncan, I never tire looking at your knives (all of them) but the bronze shield Scout is AMAZING I think it's so cool that the blade/s ride on bronze bushings/washers

Thanks, Paul. I know that there is a thread with a lot of makers' tang stamps posted. When I find it, I should be able to do a better job of dating it than with the short page I now have. It is pretty cool carrying a knife that slim and light.

 

[paulhilborn]

A gift given to me by my friend Mister Duncan Morgan. I expressed an interest in it, looked at it and put it back. Later that night he gifted me this wonderful Wade & Butcher tear drop jack.

Duncan, myself and others felt this was quite possibly assembled in the USA. It has strong characteristics to a Schrade Cut Co I own and posted earlier in this thread.

This is a fantastic knife f&f wise. Just a bit short on the main but the pen is full. Snap is truly like new, not a bit of play in either blade. It is used but certainly not abused. Not a single chip, crack or flaw in the well aged jigged bone covers.

Thank you Duncan as this is a very special knife and the only Wade & Butcher knife I own.

FORGED IN SHEFFIELD ENGLAND

WADE & BUTCHER (with circle B, arrow and cross)

 

[lambertiana]

Duncan - Great bunch of knives! I especially like the NYKC scout. I have wanted one of those for a long time, but they always seem out of my budget.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Thank you Neal my friend

Paul matey- Man I have a real soft spot for that Wade and Butcher- and I have owned quite a few Wade and Butchers that all carry the English influence- this knife does not tdo that whatsoever and is the very first that I have seen like this!
Charlie told us that Wade and Butcher took their trade to the USA shores .
During the transition period- it makes sense that the Blades would have been made in England- then shipped for assembly in the States- that is ( well to me anyway ) quite an important Knife to have in a collection for this very topic- Im willing to bet not a lot of these around!

Lambertiana Kind Sir - I wasnt taken aback too much with the price of this one, and I am extremely happy with the shape this knife is in!

Well, at our last night at the resort before we had to hit the Hay pretty early ( as we had to leave at 12.30pm to hit the road- so we could catch a plane in Buffalo at 5.30 ) we gathered in the bar as I asked if Charlie had any goodies for sale- ok... ... Charlie pulls out a roll and opens it up - Paul, John myself, Dave and Jack gathered round and pretty soon deals went down - this was just one that I was lucky enough to obtain - so Charlie my friend- a massive thank you kind Sir
Not the best photos- it was getting dark and the clouds were closing in quickly- apologies as the photos dont really do this fantastic Lockwoods Stag Lock- Back any justice whatsoever... as this is quite a nice example having very little use in it's lifetime!

 

[Campbellclanman]

CONFESSION OF A BEGINNER

I mentioned earlier that I made a couple of mistakes during the Knife show, while I was looking through a sellers cabinet I came across this large Boker Jack - I picked it up- "Oh yeah.... pretty tidy ...mmm " Turned it over- Nice Bone- cool, Opened it and the price tag!!! it was relatively cheap!..i thought Wow!...I know- I Know ...that was the first danger sign - but I got sucked in and thought wow...Opened it up click clack and put it down to the side and thought "shivers- thats a good deal..." and looked at another Knife that I was keeping an eye on... did the deal for the lot..... .... got back to sitting down later - and it was pointed out that - when you looked down the Knife- that it was obviously a Back pocket Knife and had a slight Bend- also the Blade had been crinked to fix this... once pointed out I just couldnt believe I had missed that- it was a great lesson because I have come back and looked through all of my knives in a different way, at that very moment at the show- I do admit that I got caught up with it all.
Not only embarrassed- but I was ashamed of myself for making a fool of myself- Im better than this.

I also felt cheated because the seller was a fairly reputable guy.............. but I thought about it- and I thought No- it was me who was wrong and pointing the finger isnt the way to learn from this - the Seller was telling me everything about the Knife - through the price - this knife should have had $200 extra on the price tag if it was the tidy one that it presented itself to be...............I just didnt click onto that - so he was doing everything right- and I was doing everything wrong.
For the price I paid - this is a hell of a cheap user- still an attractive Knife that works well- its just that it's been worked on- Dave and I talked about this Knife and from what was a disappointment- ended up being a good discussion Knife - one that Bill from GEC when shown this knife - said that it was quite a unique knife in a way because it didnt seem as though the knife had been finished from Factory when he was inspecting it...... so a knife that already has filled an important purpose that has taught me greatly by making a mistake and a knife that has been a good talking point - and whats left over is one hang of a user!

 

[LongBlade]

Thanks Paul, Mike and Neal ...

Beautiful Wade and Butcher Paul ..

Nice Lockwood Duncan ... and great story on the Utica jack... I still feel like I am learning all the time ....

 

[supratentorial]

Nice knives, guys.

Campbellclanman , If there is something wrong with the knife, I can't see it in the photos. Nice finds!

 

[CNoyes]

Re' Duncan's bronze shielded CAMPERS utility, I think Paul Hillborn has already guessed its provenance.

I, too, suspect the blade tangs are riding on bronze bearings inletted into the inner aspect of the backsprings. If so, then it is a "Perma-Lube" knife from the 1940 to 194? time frame.

Perma-Lube knives were identified by a bronze shield, which might be a Campers, a bar, an escutcheon or even a PocketEze.

Not all Perma-Lube knives were etched and not all had a pattern number that fell within the Perma-Lube series and all of them did not have a bronze shield.

The number on Duncan's knife might be 642214, the usual number for a 3 5/8" scout/utility or it might be something else.

As a Perma-Lube knife, it carries a significant premium over the others. They did not make very many and only for a short, but unknown length of time.

 

[paulhilborn]

Thanks for the history Charlie on Duncan's scout. I could sit and absorb your knowledge for hours on end. The neatest thing at the rendezvous was listening to Charlie, Dave, Bill, Lyle and countless others share their thoughts on knives, patterns and makers.