Ontario BlackBird broke..........

[T.L.]

We're just glad you're okay.

 

[Neo]

I've seen dozens of posts of knives being broken with batoning, even a CS Recon Scout.
There is some technique involved : http://www.knivesshipfree.com/pages.php?pID=44&CDpath=2
( link is first article I came across)

Of course some knives can resist quite a lot of abuse: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/986699-Funny-tests-with-KR-Legion

 

[The Mastiff]

.13 inch width flat ground 154cm at rc58-60. Not my idea of a heavy duty knife. I see

"handle the most demanding wilderness survival tasks."

, which can be argued to mean batoning but was batoning recommended or ok'ed somewhere in writing? I'm curious about this.

Joe

 

[not2sharp]

Come on, people. I'm of the opinion that batonning isn't something you should do at all with a knife, but if the manufacturer SAYS their knife will stand up to it, who can think of one good reason why they shouldn't stand by their statement and replace it when it breaks?

There is batonning, and then there is this:

That is one huge block of wood and the entire length of blade looks to have been hammered into block. Where you batonning the back of the blade or the back of the handle? From the image it looks like the knife may have been laterally pulled apart.

n2s

 

[Silverthorn]

That log looks like his presentation platform. I dont see marks from batoning unless I am missing them. My bet is he was batoning something else, and showed the exploded knife on the top of this seasoned piece of wood. He did say the log he was using was soft, that is a seasoned frozen devil log ...lol

 

[TwinStick]

Gotta be something to do with the heat treat. Contact Ontario and I bet they will make things right.

Yup, this. ^^^^^^^


And as far as batoning goes, I call BS on that. I baton with almost all my knives. If it cant take batoning, then it ain't worth spit to me. I am serious. I have even batoned with my CS RECON 1 folder. It did not break. It did loosen up quite a bit, but after tightening there is zero play. I would not keep a knife that did not pass my batoning tests. Hell, i have even batoned with my meat cleavers.

 

[bld522]

.13 inch width flat ground 154cm at rc58-60. Not my idea of a heavy duty knife. I see , which can be argued to mean batoning but was batoning recommended or ok'ed somewhere in writing? I'm curious about this.

Joe

If you Google "Blackbird Knife", the first link you'll find is this one: http://blackbirdknives.com/

Once you're at the web site, run your mouse over the blade and you'll see some numbers that open up pop-up windows. Click the Learn More link at the bottom right corner of any of the windows and you'll end up here:

http://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com/Blackbird-SK-5-Survival-Knife-p/bbsk-5.htm

Scroll down a little and you'll see a video by the designer of the blade, Paul Scheiter. Go 07:34 minutes into the video and listen carefully.

When you're done, scroll down a little more and look under Handle Design/Secure Attachment. Read the second sentence of the description.

'Nuff said.

 

[CWL]

There is batonning, and then there is this:

That is one huge block of wood and the entire length of blade looks to have been hammered into block. Where you batonning the back of the blade or the back of the handle? From the image it looks like the knife may have been laterally pulled apart.

n2s

Looks like he pounded his knife all the way into the log and probably twisted the knife to try & get it out.

Whatever the warranty will or will not cover, this isn't any sort of "technique".

 

[Firestrike]

For the money you paid for the Blackbird, you could have got an ESEE with a lifetime no questions asked warranty, or a Tops knife and not had to worry about a warranty as I have not yet been able to break one.

 

[bld522]

Or saved some money and purchased a Ka-Bar Becker BK2 or an Ontario Ranger RD6. I haven't seen any of them break either.

 

[Nixelplix]

It definitely looks like the OP was doing it wrong.

 

[bld522]

Come on, folks. Technique notwithstanding, how many of you would stake your life on a knife with the specs of a Blackbird?

 

[PropThePolecat]

I have been going on camping trips for over 40 years. In the semi desert of south Texas, and in the Appalachian mountains mostly, and I have yet to find myself in a position to have to chop logs into kindling with a knife.

If youve been camping in a dry semi-desert enviroment, then i fully understand having no need for batoning. But when everything is soaking wet, for example in a temperate rainforest, then its a useful technique for getting into the dry wood in the middle of a log. Of course, you could always fashion a wooden wedge with your knife, and use that to split the wood. But banging on your knife is still fun.

 

[CWL]

If youve been camping in a dry semi-desert enviroment, then i fully understand having no need for batoning. But when everything is soaking wet, for example in a temperate rainforest, then its a useful technique for getting into the dry wood in the middle of a log. Of course, you could always fashion a wooden wedge with your knife, and use that to split the wood. But banging on your knife is still fun.

I agree to the "fun", but that is not technique, and especially not necessary. How many perfectly sawn logs does one encounter in the wilderness?

The problem I have with batoning, is that too many numbskulls don't know what it is for (like getting to dry heartwood) and they think that they've mastered something useful. Walk these people out of their back yards and into some frozen woods and half of them won't know how to survive the night.

 

[PropThePolecat]

There is batonning, and then there is this:

I agree^.

That's one serious log. I dont baton anything in one go, that has a bigger diameter than my blade lenght. If its any bigger than that, then i take chunks out of it before going through the middle of it.

That being said, i have no qualms with Ontario. Ive used and batoned my TAK with no problems. I trust it just as much as my other knives. Same goes for stainless knives. I'd trust my Fallknivens with any task, inc. batoning.

 

[Dorito Monk]

There is batonning, and then there is this:

That is one huge block of wood and the entire length of blade looks to have been hammered into block. Where you batonning the back of the blade or the back of the handle? From the image it looks like the knife may have been laterally pulled apart.

n2s

Forgive me, but I don't really see the difference between 'batonning' and what the OP was doing. Batonning is this abusive fad that folks have gotten into in the past few years whereby you whack a knife with a big stick and hope it doesn't break in order to split wood - something that often results in broken knives. What he did was whack a knife with a big stick while trying to split wood and wound up with a broken knife - If it acts like a duck, quacks like a duck... If you baton with your knives, that's fine and dandy, but you're asking for broken knives no matter what 'technique' you use to hammer your thin piece of steel through a log.

Still, that's not any kind of reason for him to be denied a replacement, since the knife was said to have been designed with those specific abusive activities in mind. Yeah, common sense would tell most people to avoid batonning with a knife like that, but then again, most folks with common sense would also avoid batonning with any knife, period, so it's kind of funny to see a bunch of people jump all over him for using 'improper technique' - if you find yourself batonning with your knife, your 'technique' is already in really bad shape.

Of course, you could always fashion a wooden wedge with your knife, and use that to split the wood. But banging on your knife is still fun.

+1 :thumbup:

This is what I learned to do (when you don't have a hatchet handy) when I was little. Accomplishes the exact same thing as batonning or using a splitting wedge, but poses exactly zero risk of breaking your knife. :thumbup: Batoning is probably lots of fun and everything, but I'm pretty skeptical about anyone who advocates batonning as 'proper technique'.

 

[PropThePolecat]

I agree to the "fun", but that is not technique, and especially not necessary. How many perfectly sawn logs does one encounter in the wilderness?

I agree. The only deadwood i baton when backpacking, is the stuff i can break or saw off.

The problem I have with batoning, is that too many numbskulls don't know what it is for (like getting to dry heartwood) and they think that they've mastered something useful. Walk these people out of their back yards and into some frozen woods and half of them won't know how to survive the night.

The kids nowadays cant even survive a dayhike without bringing some WD40 along.

 

[TheGame]

I can understand that some people don't like batoning. But why must they always go above and beyond to make it seem like it is extremely abusive? If it was that bad, wouldn't knifemakers tell us not to do it? It's wood vs Steel. Which one should win? I baton just about every single time I am in the woods (for the simple fun of it) and I have never had one break.

However, I do have to say the pic in question was taking it a little extreme. Looks like the OP was trying to pry the wood apart where it broke.

 

[mley1]

If youve been camping in a dry semi-desert enviroment, then i fully understand having no need for batoning. But when everything is soaking wet, for example in a temperate rainforest, then its a useful technique for getting into the dry wood in the middle of a log. Of course, you could always fashion a wooden wedge with your knife, and use that to split the wood. But banging on your knife is still fun.

I live in South East Texas, and have camped quite a bit down here. One technique I have used is taking my knife to get into the middle of an old pine knot or stump for the resin soaked wood that is in the center. Once you get a few pieces of that stuff you're good to go for starting a fire, even in wet drizzly weather. Those resin soaked pine knots will start right up and burn for a long time, and burn very hot. Sometimes you gotta use your knife on pretty large logs to get to them too. I used a Buck 119 for a long time camping, and had to use it a few times to get into pine knots. Now I use an Essee, or my Gravelle. The Gravelle is quite a bit thicker at .25in, and it's A2 steel. No worries about breaking it.

 

[CWL]

I can understand that some people don't like batoning. But why must they always go above and beyond to make it seem like it is extremely abusive? If it was that bad, wouldn't knifemakers tell us not to do it? It's wood vs Steel. Which one should win? I baton just about every single time I am in the woods (for the simple fun of it) and I have never had one break.

However, I do have to say the pic in question was taking it a little extreme. Looks like the OP was trying to pry the wood apart where it broke.

The problem I have with batoning isn't about the knife. It is that people will use it as a lazy crutch instead of learning any real outdoors/woods skills. If any of these people do find themselves in the outdoors and out of cellphone contact, they will discover how horribly unprepared they actually are to survive. Batoning has taken over where simple & basic outdoors survival skills should have been studied.