Ontario BlackBird broke..........

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Get an Ontario Ranger in 5160, they make them from small-ish on up to freakish. Should handle this stuff IMO.
 
PharaohX3 said:
But clearly this thread is about batoning now anyways . . .
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. . . as practically any thread in my memory involving damage to a batonned knife eventually devolves to. In fact, we have two topics going on here . . . (1) the efficacy of batonning with a knife, (2) the inflated "survival" claims of a knife . . . ANY KNIFE . . . with the specs of the BlackBird. Most people will focus on the former. I, however, prefer to concentrate on the latter.

To each his own. :)

But just to get my personal views re: batonning out of the way, should you baton on a knife? No. If you're in a survival situation and the only tool you have to split wood with is a knife, should you be comfortable knowing that you could baton on your knife if you had to without damaging it? Yes.

There is one other topic we could strike up here and make it a complete triumvirate, and that's the issue of doing your homework BEFORE you buy a knife based on manufacturer claims. In this regard, forums like BF and the work of certain members . . . some of whom are here and some of whom are sadly missing . . . have been and continue to be absolutely indispensible.
 
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bld522 said:
. . . as practically any thread in my memory involving damage to a batonned knife eventually devolves to. In fact, we have two topics going on here . . . (1) the efficacy of batonning with a knife, (2) the inflated "survival" claims of a knife . . . ANY KNIFE . . . with the specs of the BlackBird. ....
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I don't quite see it that way, nor do i have anything against batonning. I just don't see what the OP was trying to accomplish by hammering his entire blade into a tree stump. Perhaps if the blade were about 4 feet wide (point to spine) he may have driven it to root system and split that log, but since that was far from the case he just ended up with his knife blade completely nailed into a tree trunk. He then probably tried to pry the knife out by the handle, or even tried to baton the handle from the bottom to try to unstick the knife, which resulted in a broken knife. Whatever was going on here was not like any sound batonning technique that I know of. So lets stop pretending this was about batonning.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
I don't quite see it that way, nor do i have anything against batonning. I just don't see what the OP was trying to accomplish by hammering his entire blade into a tree stump.
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Neither do I. But the BlackBird's designer didn't say you have to use proper batonning technique if you're going to baton his knife. He just said you could baton it . . . period. And I'd suggest that even with improper batonning technique, the OP would have been hard-pressed to break some of the knives mentioned in this thread . . . unless, of course, he tried to remove it from the tree stump with a winch. ;)

The point isn't whether the OP used proper batonning technique, it's the fact that the knife's designer is trying to pass the BlackBird off as a hard-use survival knife . . . a knife so tough that you can baton it. Clearly, at least under some circumstances, the designer is mistaken. So I agree with you. Let's stop pretending this was about batonning and get back to what a BlackBird should and should not be used for.
 
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HardTripper said:
I also argue that proper axe technique requires proper chopping block, a tall order in the middle of the bush with no chainsaw.
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Only someone who does not know how to use an axe would say this.
The axe is one of mankind's oldest tools, which has and will stand the test of time. You don't need no damn chain saw.

That aside, I've batoned with a Svord Peasant, Mora 511, Lauri 105H, CS True Flight Thrower, CS Barong Machete through some knotty wood. Never had a single problem. Maybe you gotta stick with knives under $30 ;)
 
bld522 said:
Neither do I. But the BlackBird's designer didn't say you had to use proper batonning techniques if you're going to baton his knife. He just said you could baton with it . . . period. And I'd suggest that even with improper batonning techniques, the OP would have been hard pressed to break some of the knives mentioned in this thread . . . unless, of course, he tried to remove his knife from the tree trunk with a winch. ;)
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IMO at least, doing it properly is implicit in stating it at all. When a car is advertised as safe, they don't specify it isn't true if you drive it off a cliff and the like; driving normally/correctly is implicit. If a food is advertised as healthy, they don't specify that eating 50 pounds of it per day voids that characterization; eating normally is implicit....etc., etc. Another way to say this is batoning incorrectly isn't truly batoning--but rather just whacking a knife with a stick.
 
Yes, I agree with you. But I'd still suggest that the OP would have broken parts of his body trying to extricate his knife from the tree stump before breaking some of the knives mentioned in this thread. I'd also suggest he would have been well served to learn a little more about steel capabilities (and obviously, proper technique) before attempting to baton a BlackBird.
 
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Maybe the OP was trying to do something like this?

[video=youtube;N-WuP-xYlnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-WuP-xYlnc&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
Not exactly. :) But clearly, that's more like what the OP should have been attempting. I'll add that, even with the Izula's vastly shorter blade, I'd always be more comfortable batonning Rowen 1095 than anybody's 154CM (with the exception of Jerry Busse's).
 
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I've been reading this thread with interest as I just bought a SK5 but haven't had a chance to give it a workout. Anyway, there is a youtube vid from pinewoodch and he give's his bird a pretty through beating. Batonning large logs, chopping and shaving ect. The knife seemed to do very well. ??? Who knows? I hope I didn't get a flawed design. It wasn't a huge investment but like so many have said on here, There are a lot of tough proven hard work knives in the sk5's price range.
 
No. I'm confident you didn't buy a flawed design. Use your SK5 within reason and you should be just fine. Then go back through this thread and make sure you understand why the folks who posted here said what they said. If you see a term you don't understand, run a search on it and educate yourself. Check out every knife that was suggested and see why people recommended them. If you're into hard-use knives and you don't already know, find out who Ethan Becker and Jeff Randall and Justin Gingrich and Jerry Busse are. You'll be glad you did.
 
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dogstar said:
Maybe the OP was trying to do something like this?

[video=youtube;N-WuP-xYlnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-WuP-xYlnc&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
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My definition of batoning might be off. But all I wanted to do with that log was to see if the blade edge would chip out. I never in a million years would have thought the thing would break with light use. I had no real intention of getting through it.
 
StarTrekFacePalm.gif
 
bld522 said:
. . . as practically any thread in my memory involving damage to a batonned knife eventually devolves to. In fact, we have two topics going on here . . . (1) the efficacy of batonning with a knife, (2) the inflated "survival" claims of a knife . . . ANY KNIFE . . . with the specs of the BlackBird. Most people will focus on the former. I, however, prefer to concentrate on the latter.

To each his own. :)

But just to get my personal views re: batonning out of the way, should you baton on a knife? No. If you're in a survival situation and the only tool you have to split wood with is a knife, should you be comfortable knowing that you could baton on your knife if you had to without damaging it? Yes.

There is one other topic we could strike up here and make it a complete triumvirate, and that's the issue of doing your homework BEFORE you buy a knife based on manufacturer claims. In this regard, forums like BF and the work of certain members . . . some of whom are here and some of whom are sadly missing . . . have been and continue to be absolutely indispensible.
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Yup, this. ^^^^^^
 
maxpeters said:
I'm not sure why batoning is popular all of a sudden. Who started doing this anyway? I was always taught that a knife is to cut things. Not "process wood" with. And that you were supposed to take care of your knife. If you did, it would take care of you.
I suppose everyone just wants to be able to brag that they have the toughest knife made. Well, that's fine, but you certainly don't have to have a knife that withstands constant battoning, to have a tough knife.
I have been going on camping trips for over 40 years. In the semi desert of south Texas, and in the Appalachian mountains mostly, and I have yet to find myself in a position to have to chop logs into kindling with a knife. The knives I have used have all done a great job at what they were designed to do. I try to take care of them too.
I have either used a hatchet, an axe, or a saw, if I wanted kindling. Most of the time, I just pick sticks and dead branches up off the ground.
Can someone please tell me when you have HAD to chop logs up with a knife?
I know of one manufacturer who has changed the steel offered in one particular knife, just so it would withstand battoning better. But that steel is not as desirable as what they moved away from. I imagine many more manufacturers will be going this route in the future. I sure hope not.
IF I was EVER stranded somewhere in the wild, and only had a knife with me, damn if I would be beating the blade with a log. Or rock. That knife would be too important in getting my butt back to safety, to risk breaking it.
If you have one of the knives touted on this, and other forums, that is known to be able to withstand battoning, believe me, you keep it up, and sooner or latter it's going to fail. It's just a matter of time. Where will you be when that happens? Will you be depending on that knife to get you back to civilization? I hope not.
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Yep.... :thumbup:

I too have been camping and hunting for about 40 years now. I grew up in a logging family. My grandfather started in 1934, and continued until 1974.
I never saw him use a knife to cut firewood. I'm sure if I had done it, and he had seen it, he would have come unglued.
I think most of the people that use their knives for this purpose, like to pretend they are in a dire survival situation. Ironically the pictures posted usually look like they are in someones back yard. I'd also bet that most of the people that do this, camp in improved camp grounds, and close to civilization.

Why make more work for yourself when chopping wood ? An axe is so much easier, and actually designed for that purpose. I've hunted in remote wilderness areas, in extreme winter conditions, and always managed to have a fire without the use of a knife, OR an axe. It really isn't difficult to do... If I want a fire, I don't want to screw around wasting time, cutting wood with a knife.

Nixelplix said:
StarTrekFacePalm.gif
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:D
 
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