Optimal position of the liner lock

[alan0354]

I don't care about your mind. I care about this knife community you're insulting.

So this community mostly cannot talk about physics and why things are, most can only say just keep what the original how it comes because they know better?

Ever occur to you that the knife is out of spec and I want to make it better? Is this a tinker, modifying forum?

 

[RoyalHolic]

 

[Danke42]

At least it was only a Steel Will that got ruined. Always look on the bright side, that's my maintenance mantra.

 

[jbmonkey]

So this community mostly cannot talk about physics and why things are, most can only say just keep what the original how it comes because they know better?

Ever occur to you that the knife is out of spec and I want to make it better? Is this a tinker, modifying forum?

why not ask Michael Walker who patented and invented the liner lock and also pretty much invented the foundation for the frame lock too......just didn't patent it. he's on instagram. no one knows proper liner locks angles and geometry more than him.....see if he thinks you've improved on the knives you're tinkering with.....or made them worse and unsafe.....

 

[Danke42]

why not ask Michael Walker who patented and invented the liner lock and also pretty much invented the foundation for the frame lock too......just didn't patent it. he's on instagram. no one knows proper liner locks angles and geometry more than him.....see if he thinks you've improved on the knives you're tinkering with.....or made them worse and unsafe.....

 

[alan0354]

why not ask Michael Walker who patented and invented the liner lock and also pretty much invented the foundation for the frame lock too......just didn't patent it. he's on instagram. no one knows proper liner locks angles and geometry more than him.....see if he thinks you've improved on the knives you're tinkering with.....or made them worse and unsafe.....

So nobody in this community can give an analytical answer? Most of them only can come back with sarcasm, Only 2 or 3 actually talk about angle and friction instead of "Just follow, they know better". Isn't that disappointing for a forum that is for "modify, tinkering"?

I am not trying to be disrespectful to you, just comment towards those that talk a lot but no technical analysis.

 

[alan0354]

OK, let me try another question here. I open my knives, I hit the back of the blade on concrete steps a few times to make sure the blade did not get get loose or the lock release, or the liner even move. Is that a good way to test the liner lock?

I try not to hit too hard, hard enough I actually feel a very slight rough spot on the back of the blade.

Thanks

 

[alan0354]

At least it was only a Steel Will that got ruined. Always look on the bright side, that's my maintenance mantra.

Steel Will design is a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN a lot of the other so caller "designer knives". I look at those Spyderco, I started laughing, looks like a chicken with big eye. I have to give it to Spyderco, it has a characteristic looks, some think it worth over $100!!!!

I don't particular like Cold Steel, BUT at least after watching a few of the disassembly videos on their knives, the designs look good and robust, nothing stupid like in post#60 and #61.

 

[Guy McVer]

OK, let me try another question here. I open my knives, I hit the back of the blade on concrete steps a few times to make sure the blade did not get get loose or the lock release, or the liner even move. Is that a good way to test the liner lock?

I mean I personally wouldn't do that because it would scratch the fk out of the spine. If you want to whack it a few times against a soft piece of wood then I don't see an issue as long as you aren't stupid about it. Watch your fingers.

Personally I don't like locking knives anyway, for legal, social, and safety reasons.

Locking knives intimidate people who probably wouldn't bat an eye at a common easily recognizable and socially acceptable slipjoint like a SAK.

Locking knives are more restricted legally than slipjoints. Knife rules and laws vary so much from place to place that it's just better to default to a slipjoint.

Locking knives can give you a false sense of security which can be dangerous if and when the lock should fail.

FYI, Spyderco is well recognized and generally well respected around the world. Nobody is above criticism but it's probably not a good idea to go after the more well liked brands, especially on these forums. You'll get dogpiled. It's happened to me a bunch of times when criticizing Victorinox or Leatherman, both of which I actually like. It's just that some people simply can't handle criticism of their favorite brands. Personally I think that's unhealthy. If you like something then it's good to criticize it every once in a while to help make it better.

 

[alan0354]

I mean I personally wouldn't do that because it would scratch the fk out of the spine. If you want to whack it a few times against a soft piece of wood then I don't see an issue as long as you aren't stupid about it. Watch your fingers.

Personally I don't like locking knives anyway, for legal, social, and safety reasons.

Locking knives intimidate people who probably wouldn't bat an eye at a common easily recognizable and socially acceptable slipjoint like a SAK.

Locking knives are more restricted legally than slipjoints. Knife rules and laws vary so much from place to place that it's just better to default to a slipjoint.

Locking knives can give you a false sense of security which can be dangerous if and when the lock should fail.

FYI, Spyderco is well recognized and generally well respected around the world. Nobody is above criticism but it's probably not a good idea to go after the more well liked brands, especially on these forums. You'll get dogpiled. It's happened to me a bunch of times when criticizing Victorinox or Leatherman, both of which I actually like. It's just that some people simply can't handle criticism of their favorite brands. Personally I think that's unhealthy. If you like something then it's good to criticize it every once in a while to help make it better.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I hit it hard enough it scratch the spine of the blade. here is the video I just made. So you think that's good enough test for the locking mechanism? Yes, I hold the knife so even if the blade closes, it won't touch my finger.

What is Locking knives? Is liner lock folding knives like mine Locking knife?

What is slipjoint or SAK?

I won't be frequenting knife forums. Just when I have mechanical question like this. I am calling it out as it is on Spyderco.

To me, knife is a tool for utility and survival. I don't need it for cutting food or opening boxes. I carry a knife in case I have to cut myself out from a car or self defense. Practical and reliability is of utmost importance, not how it looks. I wear Rolex and gold chain as jewelry, I keep my knife in deep pocket so no one can see it.

Thanks

 

[Guy McVer]

So you think that's good enough test for the locking mechanism?

No. I think it's one test and you shouldn't just stop there. Check for play in the blade, for example, or flex in the handles/liners. Try to wiggle the blade and watch where the liner lock makes contact with the back of the tang. Squeeze the sides see how much the scales and liners flex and see how it affects the lock.

To me, knife is a tool for utility and survival. I don't need it for cutting food or opening boxes. I carry a knife in case I have to cut myself out from a car or self defense. Practical and reliability is of utmost importance, not how it looks. I wear Rolex and gold chain as jewelry, I keep my knife in deep pocket so no one can see it.

Well then I advise not carrying a folder then. If local laws permit, then carry a fixed blade. Just remember that force is an absolute last resort. Best thing to do in most cases is flee. Call the police. Obviously if that's an issue in your area because the police are unreliable and you have a reasonable fear for your safety, then I would consider carrying a firearm, but that's just me.

What is slipjoint or SAK?

...



Slipjoint = basically a non-locking folder.

SAK = Swiss Army Knife

 

[alan0354]

No. I think it's one test and you shouldn't just stop there. Check for play in the blade, for example, or flex in the handles/liners. Try to wiggle the blade and watch where the liner lock makes contact with the back of the tang. Squeeze the sides see how much the scales and liners flex and see how it affects the lock.



Well then I advise not carrying a folder then. If local laws permit, then carry a fixed blade. Just remember that force is an absolute last resort. Best thing to do in most cases is flee. Call the police. Obviously if that's an issue in your area because the police are unreliable and you have a reasonable fear for your safety, then I would consider carrying a firearm, but that's just me.



...



Slipjoint = basically a non-locking folder.

SAK = Swiss Army Knife

Thanks so much, this is helpful for me to double check. This is what I am really looking for.

I just edit the last post, I put the way I test on youtube. Here is the link again.

Yes, I checked the flex of handle/liner, I actually took the time to put spacer to make sure the blade hardly move side to side from the liners. The liner is VERY secure when wiggle the blade around in all directions. It's a lot of work to get to this point that I don't talk about as I don't have question about that. This liner position and angle of grinding is about the last thing.

Let me know this striking is hard and good enough.

Ha ha, for me, a little ding on the spine is nothing, my knives is not for show. It won't "injure" the knife!!

Thanks so much. I am glad I check back on this thread. I was going to give up already.

Thanks

 

[MolokaiRider]

Now let's see that Rolex! I always appreciate a fine timepiece.

 

[alan0354]

Now let's see that Rolex! I always appreciate a fine timepiece.

The small one is my wife's. THEY ARE NOT RELIABLE. THIS IS REALLY FOR SHOW. I just spent $550 fixing mine, it broke again, luckily it's under warranty. Be ready to dish out $500 every 2 to 3 years to keep it running. This is really jewelry, absolutely useless as a watch. You get better watch buying a Timex.

 

[alan0354]

FYI, Spyderco is well recognized and generally well respected around the world. Nobody is above criticism but it's probably not a good idea to go after the more well liked brands, especially on these forums. You'll get dogpiled. It's happened to me a bunch of times when criticizing Victorinox or Leatherman, both of which I actually like. It's just that some people simply can't handle criticism of their favorite brands. Personally I think that's unhealthy. If you like something then it's good to criticize it every once in a while to help make it better.

I agree totally. I am just surprised people take it personal. I understand if I am on the regular part of the forum, but this is about modification and tinkering. I expect people have knowledge and be analytical to talk here. It's like I give my observation to form my opinion. And if someone tell me in an analytical way, I definitely look into it.

Steel Will is my favorite brand, I own a lot of it's knives. BUT if someone criticizing Steel Will, my ears will be sticking up and listen. Then verify. If it makes sense, I will change my mind. I pride myself being objective, listen to valid opinion.

I might not be knife maker(honestly, I don't even want to be, this is only transitional thing). But I did watch a lot of youtube knife disassembly and look at their constructions to form opinion. I have enough knives of different brands to open up and look at them.

One thing i really notice, ONE CANNOT USE PRICE AS A GUIDE LINE. One of the cheap knife I bought, I tested the hardness of the blade by hitting two knives against each other's spine and see how much of a dent it made to compare. I find the really cheap knife has the hardest steel. Not just one. I bought 4 of the same and IT'S CONSISTENT.

https://www.amazon.com/JSWS-Folding...07409&sprefix=jsws+knives,aps,167&sr=8-5&th=1

It's $26 now, I paid less than $20. This is a nice knife decent design.

NEVER JUDGE QUALITY OF KNIVES BY THE PRICE.

 

[killgar]

First of all, I don't see anyone in this thread taking any criticism of Spyderco personal, or any sign that they can't handle criticism of their favorite brand. The fact is, you Alan, have unfairly criticized a longtime, well-established, and high-quality knife brand, run by a well-respected innovator in the knife world by judging one of his knives by criteria that it was never designed or marketed for, by suggesting that he and the designers he employs are "dumb", that they don't know how to design a knife, and that they are only interested in making knives for "fashion".

The flip side of being a "fanboy" who cannot handle criticism of their favorite knife brand is someone with an irrational and personal bias against the brand, and looks for any opportunity to bash and insult that brand based on the most ridiculous of reasons. Bias goes both ways. And anyone who reads this thread and thinks there are members here who "can't handle criticism" of Spyderco should go back and re-read this thread and see where the real bias is.

As for myself, I don't own any Spyderco knives, nor do I ever plan to. I've owned two Spyderco knives in my life, and I didn't like them. Most Spyderco designs don't appeal to me, and I don't plan on ever buying another one. So obviously I'm not someone who can't handle criticism of Spyderco. But I still recognize their quality, the quality of the company, the skill of their designers, and the contributions to the knife world made by Mr. Glesser.


Now as far as why more people aren't discussing the physics, mechanics, and technical analytics of liner locks with you Alan, the reason is- we just don't take you seriously.

It became pretty obvious early on, to a lot of us anyways, that you aren't really interested in a serious discussion of liner lock design and function, and you just keep proving this more as time goes by.

But instead, you want to TELL us how all the people making them are wrong, and "dumb", how they don't know what they are doing, and how you, with your VAST experience in knife making, know better than they do. You say that you want to discuss, but you flat out reject anything people say that you don't agree with. You're not looking for discussion, you're looking for validation, you want people to say "Wow, you're so smart! And you're right, you're way IS better than everyone else". And that is why I for one cannot take you seriously, and why I won't attempt to have a "technical" discission of liner locks with you.


I'd like to think that the members of Bladeforums know me as someone who hardly ever (like never) criticizes or speaks harshly of other members. I try to treat everyone in a friendly and respectful manner. But there comes a point where you just have to call people out on their bulls!$#*. And for me, this is one of those rare times.

 

[alan0354]

First of all, I don't see anyone in this thread taking any criticism of Spyderco personal, or any sign that they can't handle criticism of their favorite brand. The fact is, you Alan, have unfairly criticized a longtime, well-established, and high-quality knife brand, run by a well-respected innovator in the knife world by judging one of his knives by criteria that it was never designed or marketed for, by suggesting that he and the designers he employs are "dumb", that they don't know how to design a knife, and that they are only interested in making knives for "fashion".

If you disagree my criticism on Spyderco, you can tell me why I am wrong. all you and a lot of other people here cannot do that, resort to say I don't have to experience to criticize.

The flip side of being a "fanboy" who cannot handle criticism of their favorite knife brand is someone with an irrational and personal bias against the brand, and looks for any opportunity to bash and insult that brand based on the most ridiculous of reasons. Bias goes both ways. And anyone who reads this thread and thinks there are members here who "can't handle criticism" of Spyderco should go back and re-read this thread and see where the real bias is.

I go by facts, read post#61. if you disagree, you can present your case. You seriously think the Off Grid knife that cost almost $100 is a good design in post#60? Or you just REFUSE to look at it because you don't take me serious? Seems it's typical of how a lot of people are here.

As for myself, I don't own any Spyderco knives, nor do I ever plan to. I've owned two Spyderco knives in my life, and I didn't like them. Most Spyderco designs don't appeal to me, and I don't plan on ever buying another one. So obviously I'm not someone who can't handle criticism of Spyderco. But I still recognize their quality, the quality of the company, the skill of their designers, and the contributions to the knife world made by Mr. Glesser.


Now as far as why more people aren't discussing the physics, mechanics, and technical analytics of liner locks with you Alan, the reason is- we just don't take you seriously.

That's the problem with this forum different from other more scientific forums. Most of you find reason NOT to get deep into analysis, just say "we can't take you serious".
I don't care what name you have and your title. Take a few pictures of your DISASSEMBLED KNIVES AND SHOW TO PEOPLE TO JUDGE. YOU DON'T DEMAND RESPECT, YOU EARN IT.

It became pretty obvious early on, to a lot of us anyways, that you aren't really interested in a serious discussion of liner lock design and function, and you just keep proving this more as time goes by.

But instead, you want to TELL us how all the people making them are wrong, and "dumb", how they don't know what they are doing, and how you, with your VAST experience in knife making, know better than they do. You say that you want to discuss, but you flat out reject anything people say that you don't agree with. You're not looking for discussion, you're looking for validation, you want people to say "Wow, you're so smart! And you're right, you're way IS better than everyone else". And that is why I for one cannot take you seriously, and why I won't attempt to have a "technical" discission of liner locks with you.


I'd like to think that the members of Bladeforums know me as someone who hardly ever (like never) criticizes or speaks harshly of other members. I try to treat everyone in a friendly and respectful manner. But there comes a point where you just have to call people out on their bulls!$#*. And for me, this is one of those rare times.

You and others made it very clear you don't want to have analytical discussion with me. I don't expect that anymore. Luckily, there are still a few that talk and I did learn a lot.

I have no intention to be around here much longer. Only thing at this point is to get feedback on my video whether it's good enough to test the lock like in my video.

Again YOU DON'T DEMAND RESPECT, YOU EARN IT. YOU WANT RESPECT, TAKE A FEW PICTURES OF YOUR KNIVES DISASSEMBLED, MORE ON THE PIVOT POINT TO PROOF THE DESIGN IS ROBUST. THEN I WILL RESPECT YOU. DON'T JUST SAY " I DESIGN A KNIFE FROM START TO FINISH", PROOF.

I don't try to carry on argument, I talk to people that talk. BUT IF YOU AND OTHERS KEEP COMING BACK TO TELL ME I DON'T KNOW NOTHING AND YOU REFUSE TO GO INTO ANALYSIS. I WILL RESPOND. YOU DON'T DEMAND RESPECT, YOU EARN IT. SHOW AND TELL.

 

[alan0354]

No. I think it's one test and you shouldn't just stop there. Check for play in the blade, for example, or flex in the handles/liners. Try to wiggle the blade and watch where the liner lock makes contact with the back of the tang. Squeeze the sides see how much the scales and liners flex and see how it affects the lock.



Well then I advise not carrying a folder then. If local laws permit, then carry a fixed blade. Just remember that force is an absolute last resort. Best thing to do in most cases is flee. Call the police. Obviously if that's an issue in your area because the police are unreliable and you have a reasonable fear for your safety, then I would consider carrying a firearm, but that's just me.



...



Slipjoint = basically a non-locking folder.

SAK = Swiss Army Knife

Hi Guy

Can you comment on my video? If that's good enough, I think I am done with this thread. It is getting ugly. I don't want to keep trading insults with the others, just going to end this thread and stop following. It's not productive to argue with closed mind people.

Thanks

 

[J. Doyle]

If you disagree my criticism on Spyderco, you can tell me why I am wrong.

Because NO ONE is returning broken knives to spyderco because they failed and broke where you claim they're "weak" and "wrong".

Take a few pictures of your DISASSEMBLED KNIVES AND SHOW TO PEOPLE TO JUDGE.

You first.

YOU DON'T DEMAND RESPECT, YOU EARN IT.

And you haven't earned any here.

You and others made it very clear you don't want to have analytical discussion with me.

Correct. Because you're......well......nevermind.

I have no intention to be around here much longer.

Best thing you've said in this thread so far.

I don't try to carry on argument, I talk to people that talk. BUT IF YOU AND OTHERS KEEP COMING BACK TO TELL ME I DON'T KNOW NOTHING AND YOU REFUSE TO GO INTO ANALYSIS.

Several of us have tried to explain and you choose to dismiss the reasons and remain willfully ignorant.

 

[alan0354]

Because NO ONE is returning broken knives to spyderco because they failed and broke where you claim they're "weak" and "wrong".

You first.


And you haven't earned any here.


Correct. Because you're......well......nevermind.


Best thing you've said in this thread so far.



Several of us have tried to explain and you choose to dismiss the reasons and remain willfully ignorant.