Overboard with Blade Thickness: Your Mod's Ramblings

[Thomas Linton]

I have a WWII Mk II ("Ka-Bar") that a fella had rehandled and sharpened by Draper (then wondered why it went so low on ePrey). It's 5/32" thick at the spine, and H. Draper caused the knife to be sharp, although he didn't mess with the factory primary bevel. Is that a "thick" knife for purposes of this discussion? It seems "big" with its 7" blade.

I have a golok - like the khukuri another traditional knife used by folks who don't know and don't care what we think. It tapers, but averages 3/16" at the spine, with a generally flat primary bevel and a high convex secondary bevel. It can easily cut 1/16" tomato slices - but is obviously unhandy for fine tasks. No point, for one thing. (I'll bet they carry a small knife too.) Is it "thick"? Does it help to tell you it's 1.5" wide? Very acute. Sure seems "big."

I have a couple of folders with 1/8" thick blades. They sure seem -- well -- thick -- less suitable for fine work than other choices.

I suggest that "one size fits all" does not select the optimal tool whether your favorite is "thin" (whatever that means for you or me) or "thick" (ditto). The more interesting (if unnecessary) question is, "What is the best all-rounder?"

[sorta' OT WARNING}

And if we're havin' THAT discussion, what's the best length? That, after all, is part of "big," is it not?

"The question of blade length comes up when you talk about shape. To some degree, the question is academic since all shapes and types are not available at all lengths. If you are determined on a specific shape, say a Finnish, you'll search a long time for one langer than 5 inches, unless you get a fish knife.

People are fond of saying that the real experts carry short knives, the implication being that a guy with a longish knife is a klutz. That is just not so."

 

[Thomas Linton]

The Nessie is about as good as it gets. By that I mean a Nessie 1/8 inch thick but up to 1 1/2-2 inches wide. Thus offering both strength and slicing power.

No point to speak of. Hard to drill holes or remove splinters. But Sears knew just enough to carry that other, pointed knife.

 

[m. wohlwend]

There's three factors here- one *IS* the steel. There are different alloys for a reason. I'm not going to get into which ones are better for which purposes, because there a: really is no One True steel and b: within the bounds of common use, most knife steels will perform well enough that you'd have to really geek out to know the difference (of course, makers are by definition permanently geeked out)

Second- heat treat. Scott is dead on. No matter what steel, the heat treat is going to make or break (literally in some cases) it. Not to say that any steel can do anything any other steel can do, but with the right heat treat you can gain a lot of flexibility in your working range with a given steel.

Third- the maker. Custom or Production, their familiarity with the steel and the geometries they work with are really important.


I'm still on the thin blade side of the fence, not saying that thicker blades are useless and I've got a few that I use. And heck, I ain't making my throwers out of 1/8! But in general, the thinnest blade that will Do The Job is going to be best. (Now, if punching through car doors and cutting locks out of house doors is the job, 3/32 isn't your choice)

Your knife is no better than the heat treat and the maker who made it. A 1/8 propery heat treated blade will out perform a 1/4 inch poorly treated blade. Most forged blades will have some distal tapering in them in them anyway (tapering). A properly heat treated 1080 blade will out perform a blade that is built out of very expensive steel that has been improperly heat treated. As a maker, I have said this several times when the "What is the best steel?" thread springs up. It applies to the thickness debate also.

HEAT TREAT MAKES OR BREAKS THE KNIFE.....period

I just got in a nice shipment of fresh steel for EDC's. NONE of it is over 1/8... I even ordered some 1/16 O-1..

On the other side of the shop is a large stockpile of 5160 and most of it starts just under 1/4, just is case you think I am againts big knives.

 

[udtjim]

Well said. I tend not to carry big heavy thick knives because if I am out in the woods, I have at least one hatchet and often a full size ax as well as a saw. Thats just me though. My knives are strictly for cutting.

 

[sodak]

I've never had a thick knife fail to cut what I wanted to cut. I have, however, had thin knives break when I didn't want them to break. Y'all can carry hatchets and such if you want to, I like my knives to handle many tasks, chopping included. YMMV.

 

[m. wohlwend]

I cannot recall the last time I broke a "thin" knife. Thin knives are designed to slice and cut. You have to be smart enough to match the tool to the job. If you are breaking thin knives, they are not matched to the job. Match the tool to the job. I don't use a .22 rimfire to hunt deer. Not that it won't work, and neither do I use a .30-06 to squirrel hunt.
Thin knives are all I have used for years. Because I fish and hunt some times over 200 days a year, a fillet knife and a small skinner/ hunter are very important to me.

 

[sodak]

You have to be smart enough to match the tool to the job. If you are breaking thin knives, they are not matched to the job.

Sometimes, when you are out in the middle of nowhere, you have to use what you have. I've long since discovered what works. Sometimes, you have to be smart enough not to listen to self proclaimed "experts".

 

[Bushman5]

meybe use a sharp pointy rock for drilling.........

or

use a fire bow/drill and burn out the wood to make a hole......


etc etc etc .

not a self proclaimed expert, but i do teach beginners on basic woods skills....if that counts for something./...

 

[Myal]

I cannot recall the last time I broke a "thin" knife. Thin knives are designed to slice and cut. You have to be smart enough to match the tool to the job. If you are breaking thin knives, they are not matched to the job. Match the tool to the job. I don't use a .22 rimfire to hunt deer. Not that it won't work, and neither do I use a .30-06 to squirrel hunt.
Thin knives are all I have used for years. Because I fish and hunt some times over 200 days a year, a fillet knife and a small skinner/ hunter are very important to me.

Ive broke a couple

it can happen that you got a job to do that is just the wrong job for the knife you have but the job has got to be done

It happened to me more when I was bumming around homeless than any other time ... hasnt happened to me since I settled down got married , employed have a budget and cash to spend on buying stuff appropriate for the things I do tho .

I hunt and fish , butchering and cleaning jobs havent ever given me a problem tho , its when all I got is a fillet knife I found tossed out by someone , and I had the brainwave to make a fishing spear out of the local vegitation ....

havent had to do that since I had enough money to buy myself fishing spears tho ...

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Sometimes, when you are out in the middle of nowhere, you have to use what you have. I've long since discovered what works. Sometimes, you have to be smart enough not to listen to self proclaimed "experts".

:thumbup:

Doc

 

[koyote]

We have a houseguest. 18 year old boy, very interested in the spike hawks, swords, and such. Kind of rolled eyes at the 5 inch bushcrafters- which are actually a bit big.

So, regardless of width, he looks at this 1/8 inch wide camp chopper I'm doing up for an order. - 9 inch blade, 5.25 inches of handle. Dude says if it was about 3 inches longer in the blade and 2 in the handle, it would make a decent "utility knife" for "cutting rope, and stuff that I do".

Then he gets into the thickness part, says it looks too thin. I showed him one of the smaller 1/8 blades and he said it looked much stouer, I should do the big one like that.

Now, I have and use some nice thick huge ass choppers. and I love to forge a good stout throwing knife. Heck, I even just finished a pocketable EDC that's about 3/16 on a 3.5 inch blade!

But... the inability to accept that a small think bladed knife is functional seems a bit too much, yknow?

 

[m. wohlwend]

Sometimes, when you are out in the middle of nowhere, you have to use what you have. I've long since discovered what works. Sometimes, you have to be smart enough not to listen to self proclaimed "experts".

Well if you start off your posts by telling how you are leaving certain equipment behind before you ever go "into the middle of nowhere", you are limiting your options already.

When I head into the middle of nowhere, I go prepared. I am usually in a boat or vehicle so I may have more options and equipment than most. I carry more than one knife, thin and thick. I match them to the task at hand. Maybe when I become an "expert" I will learn to use only one knife !!

 

[DOC-CANADA]

When I head into the middle of nowhere, I go prepared. I am usually in a boat or vehicle so I may have more options and equipment than most. I carry more than one knife, thin and thick. I match them to the task at hand. Maybe when I become an "expert" I will learn to use only one knife !!

I agree with more than one knife and matching the knife to the job. I don't know if sodak's comment about 'self appointed experts' was aimed at you or not, but mine wasn't, rather it's aimed at people telling other people that they are a dumb-ass because they carry this or that, and if they were smart they would carry this.

Coyote made a good point about how he works well with one kind of knife and his buddy with a different type.

We all have different likes and needs and we have to be less critical of others who think differently.

Doc (stepping down from his soap box).

 

[koyote]

That's cheating, Doc- i said that in another thread

But I'll repeat it here: You do need to know what works for you for a category of task. And not giving a thin blade or a thick blade a chance reduces you experience base. Me, I've used several thicker blades for food prep and camp chores and I honestly have to say that if I ain't choppin, pryin, stickin, or anchorin, I prefer a thin blade. And even chopping, I mostly am more "machete like bowie" than I am "KSA"

 

[m. wohlwend]

I don't FEEL like a "self appointed expert", LOL, but I do know more than I used to about steel and heat treating, and that is the key to any knife. This thread has challenged me. I have a bunch of 1/8 inch 1095 in the shop. I am going to try to make a knife that will bend 90 degrees after heat treat and won't break!!! I will keep you posted DOC....

 

[desmobob]

For some reason, I keep BUYING big sharpened pry bars, but they end up sitting in my knife drawer. I always end up carrying and USING smaller thinner blades; usually 3"-4" long and 1/8" or so thick.

No sense arguing about it... it's a personal preference thing and the different preferences are what makes this forum interesting to read. Until it turns to arguing. ;-)

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[the possum]

I have a bunch of 1/8 inch 1095 in the shop. I am going to try to make a knife that will bend 90 degrees after heat treat and won't break!!!

What good is a blade that's bent to 90 degrees?
Let's see you use that stuff to make a blade that can't be bent 90 degrees by hand in the first place!

 

[Smash05]

Keep in mind as well, that there are a lot of folks who buy thick blades, espouse their use, and have never or rarely used them. As well if you have used a thick knife but not a thin, you may not know the difference. I will say that when I have fine work to do, it has been a SAK most often, or a folder of some kind that does the work. Lately I have found I enjoy using my Mora #1. That does not mean my CSKII or RAT3 doesn't come out with me, but it just doesn't do the fine work as well. Go figure tactical is not always practical.

 

[River-8]

My SAR call-sign is River 8, and I have a thick bladed knife.

It gets worse; it’s a Busse – I use it, and I like it.

There, I said it.

Imagine my surprise to learn what an ignorant, misguided dweeb that makes me .

My EDC includes a SAK, lock blade and a Leatherman. In the backcountry I also lug
around a folding saw. All are used in their own way.

Having spent a fair bit of time battering around the brush, and broken a few blades
along the way, I guess I’ll have to accept my using a ‘sharpened crowbar' simply reflects
my inexperience. Drat.

While its not ‘bush craft’ it saddens me to admit that there have been times I’ve pulled
the ridiculous knife from its sheath, nestled my index finger in the stupid choil and shaved
pichwood curls, whittled pegs to pin up a hasty tarp shelter, or anchor edge protection
for a ropes rescue scene (hammering them in with the flat of the blade )… Gak.

I could go on, but my lower lip is beginning to quiver, and its getting difficult to see
through the misty-eyed tears of shame.

Please forgive me; I need help .

Sadly,
8

 

[tknife]

It's easy to get hung up on thickness, but edge geometry is more important. I have thick blades that slice really well, and have had thin blades that had sucky edges.

I had a knife that is highly respected here, that had a terribly thick edge on it. It was a good knife otherwise, but with an edge that won't cut, I guess it's not much of a knife really.