Pale Horse Fighter

Kevin Jones said:
Actually STeven, I have offered Kyle quite a bit of constructive criticism and he welcomes it. However I find it more productive to do so privately.
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Dude! What about us NOob Collectors and customs enthusiasts? Don't we get to learn too?:)

I agree that it's bad for anyone's head to get swollen.:thumbup: Nothing good associates itself with a swollen head.
 
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Wow. I really like that knife. That name fits it perfectly. I am jealous.

Any sheath pics?

I picture this knife in a natural colored sheath. Like a natural beeswax/minks oil hot dip, for a nice buttery yellow/tan color.
 
When I first looked at the knife posted by KR, my immediate reaction was that there was a proportion problem. Looked at the rest of the photos and enjoyed the blade pattern no matter what the damascus pattern might be called and enjoyed the other parts of the knife so continued to the end of the first page. At first I did not notice multiple pages so went back to the top as the proportions still bothered me.
Looked at some other knives I have including a KR knife and like STeven, I too found that the blade width in relation to the ricasso was not the best of proportions. I'm also of the feeling that the handle length would be better just a bit longer to balance the long blade.

Then I looked at the rest of the posts and found SG's and thought, guess I'm not the only one. KR knows I like his knives and have one which I got in Chicago. Actually, wish I had know KJ was going to sell the fighter as I would have been interested as to me it is the finest knife KR has done so far.

I think KR is quite capable of handling any comments and criticisms of knives he makes and I'm sure he does not expect only the kudos but wants to learn what collectors think about the product he is producing.

Just the other day I was thinking that we had not seen a KR knife for a bit and thus am glad to see something new from KR even if there are aspects of the knife that might need some adjustment in his design for another knife of this type.
 
From day one Kyle has sought unfiltered opinions about the knives he posts. Clearly the kid has moxee, which must partly explain his phenomenal trajectory as a maker. I suspect he already can sort the rubbish (the pejorative crap and excessive flattery) from the rubies (incisive advice from those that know). Therefore, I see no reason why any opinion pro or con should not be aired openly.

My thoughts on the handle run parallel to STeven's, though I did not offer criticism because I view this as personal taste. Brunette or blond?--taste has no right answer. This handle reminds me of a Kevin Cashen handle, a great maker whose handles smite legions but not me. And like Kevin, I'm pretty sure Kyle can sell knives with this style of handle as fast as he can make them, which reduces my personal preference to irrelevance unless I place an order with Kyle, whom I believe can make any handle he or I wish.

Moreover, Kyle already understands Lincoln's Law of Handles: Some of the people love all of the handles, and all of the people dislike some of the handles, but never do all of the people either love or dislike all of the handles. Accordingly, trying to please all of the people is folly, and even the pantheon makers will have their detractors when it comes to personal taste. So remember, Kyle, when your knives fall into disfavor and you can't give them away, send an SOS to STeven or me; we have answers. Until then, keep on forging anyway you want.

ken
 
Bruce Bump said:
Kyle, that is a superb bowie. Nice work.
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Very nice, Kyle. That is a lot of knife! I like seeing you trying some new damascus work. Your have your feather pattern damascus down to an art, that's for sure. Keep up the tremendous work! :thumbup:

- Joe
 
Lorien said:
Dude! What about us NOob Collectors and customs enthusiasts? Don't we get to learn too?:)

Not so sure how much anyone would benefit from what I have to say. :D

I agree that it's bad for anyone's head to get swollen.:thumbup: Nothing good associates itself with a swollen head.

Don't think we have to worry about Kyle's head swelling no matter how much praise.

Please tell me I'm not the only one to catch this:D
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Ken Williams said:
My thoughts on the handle run parallel to STeven's, though I did not offer criticism because I view this as personal taste. Brunette or blond?--taste has no right answer. Ken
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Exactly Ken.
For example, there's elements I don't like on STeven's new Russ Andrews fighter. Are they defects? Of course not, just difference in preference. So I didn't comment in that thread.

Since STeven opened the door on these defects or differences in taste depending on your position and others have stated same let's address them.

Handle Blocky- Not typical of Kyle's handles in general, however many frame handles do appear blocky and I would guess it was in Kyle and the owner's intent.

Ricasso too skinny- Obviously the owner wanted a "BIG" Bowie (11-3/4" blade). Though Kyle didn't state, the blade appears to be about 2-1/8-2/14" at it's widest point. So what's his options? Reduce the blade width or increase the ricasso width to be wider than the handle. Now a ricasso that's wider than the frame handle it accompanies? Now that's a design defect IMO.

Persian Twist vs Turkish - Well I expect most of us realized Kyle just made a mistake. Let's slap him. :eek:;) Or perhaps he knows something we don't. :confused:

Blade/handle proportions off (Murray) - The 16-3/4 OAL - 11-3/4 BL - 5" HL dimensions work for me.
IMO, when a knife approaches 17", then overall proportions will suffer a bit. Again IMO, anytime a handle goes over 5" it feels a little awkward in the hand. I have been told many times I have big hands, however they are only 4-1/4" across the knuckles. So for me optimal handle width is about 4-3/4"-5/8".
A handle approaching 5-1/2" or better on a Bowie is a mistake IMO, unless one has hands the size of Grizzly paws.
The wider ferrule/spacer and pummel do make the handle appear shorter than 5" to the eye.

Very good thread here as we have seen an outstanding knife and it has generated interesting and informative discussion.

:thumbup:Thanks Kyle.
 
Thanks for the complements and criticism everyone, I will keep everything said in mind for the next knife.

I think the picture may be making the handle appear short (it is a 5" handle) and out of proportion a little. How long of a handle should an 11 3/4" blade have? I would love to hear what you guys think!

Bigfattyhog I will post a photo of the sheath after I finish it which should be today or tomorrow.

I got the name Persian Twist on page 246 in Jim Hrisoulas' book "The Master Bladesmith". He refers to the pattern as Persian or Turkish. Maybe next time I'll go with the more common name.

Kevin the blade is just over 1 3/4" tall.
 
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Hey, Kyle. One thing that I have noticed makers that are a lot better than me doing is actually shortening the ricasso on big blades like this one. Obviosuly, the "cardinal rule" for most knives is to have the ricasso and the guard end of the handle the same width. IMO, shortenig the ricasso kind of fools the eye into thinking the proportions between blade and ricasso width are more "right. Unless you are willing to make the blade narrower, the alternative is to widen the ricasso and end up with a handle that is the size of the business end of a cricket bat.:D
 
That's a great point Joe. You could also taper the choil a little to further fool the eye.

Be interesting to get other maker's opinions on this subject.
 
Kyle Royer said:
Thanks for the complements and criticism everyone, I will keep everything said in mind for the next knife.

I think the picture may be making the handle appear short (it is a 5" handle) and out of proportion a little. How long of a handle should an 11 3/4" blade have? I would love to hear what you guys think!

Bigfattyhog I will post a photo of the sheath after I finish it which should be today or tomorrow.

I got the name Persian Twist on page 246 in Jim Hrisoulas' book "The Master Bladesmith". He refers to the pattern as Persian or Turkish. Maybe next time I'll go with the more common name.

Kevin the blade is just over 1 3/4" tall.
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See Kyle, I thought you knew something we didn't. ;) :D :D We are a tough crowd here and will make sure you stick to the book and dictionary. :) :D

1 3/4" - Shows how photos can be deceiving as to me the blade width looks to be almost half the length of the handle.
 
Kyle Royer said:
I think the picture may be making the handle appear short (it is a 5" handle) and out of proportion a little. How long of a handle should an 11 3/4" blade have? I would love to hear what you guys think!
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I think 5 to 5 1/2" is where it should be.

Unlike Kevin, I don't want any less than 5" of handle on a full-sized bowie.

I would also add what I hope is obvious - judging proportions based on photographs is tricky at best as proportions can be grossly distorted. Given the stated dimensions of this piece, I don't find anything disproportionate about it.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
I think 5 to 5 1/2" is where it should be.

Unlike Kevin, I don't want any less than 5" of handle on a full-sized bowie.

I would also add what I hope is obvious - judging proportions based on photographs is tricky at best as proportions can be grossly distorted. Given the stated dimensions of this piece, I don't find anything disproportionate about it.

Roger
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What's considered a "full size bowie"? Beginning at 13", 15" or 17"?

I just like grabbing a bowie and having what I consider the sweet spot, rather than having an extra inch or so of handle. Especially if it's a formed or contoured handle.
 
Kevin Jones said:
What's considered a "full size bowie"? Beginning at 13", 15" or 17"?
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I don't hold to hard and fast definitions of this term, but I am contemplating a blade length of 9" and up for full size, 6-8" for mid-size.

Kevin Jones said:
I just like grabbing a bowie and having what I consider the sweet spot, rather than having an extra inch or so of handle. Especially if it's a formed or contoured handle.
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That's fine - 5 to 5 1/2" is MY sweet spot handle dimension on a full size bowie - both in terms of aesthetics and ergonomics. Of course, there is much more to both of those factors than simply length, but length is what Kyle asked for input on. If the blade is running to the foot-long range, I prefer 5 1/2".

Roger
 
Big honkin' knives are alway going to be tricky. Think how out of proportion the handle on the Musso bowie looks and that thing is probably 6 inches long, but it looks TINY compared to the size of the blade because it is proportionally so skinny. My experience is that when starting off, you are more likely to leave the handle on a knife too long than too short. IMO, the "standard" 5 inch handle length can look too big on a 7 -8 inch blade and just taking off 1/4 of an inch can fix it right up.
 
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