Paramilitary refinement - need input

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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I'll be running this question on Spyderco site forum as well as here.

We've had number of requests to update (refine? evolve?) the Paramilitary model. So I guess it's time to try to get input from ELUs or potential ELUs on what will make the model "better".

Any area of the design is open for criticism or suggestion.

your input is appreciated.

1. I believe a 4way clip will be a necessary improvement.
2. We'll be doing somethng with the "sharp" corner at the back of the spine in the closed position.

what else?

sal

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The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, invention, design, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards.
 
I'd like to see a better blade to handle ratio. The handle is almost 1 2/3 inches longer than the blade. I like to get the most blade that will fit in the handle. Many designs will accommodate a blade just an inch shorter than the handle. Lengthen the blade or shorten the handle.
 
i would love it if the the pivot was ajustable with flat head screwdrivers as it would make it very simple to adjust the pivot

also i think a low riding clip would be really cool

sam :D
 
If we lengthen the blade we may as well call it a Military.

The knife is great already, i think the changes u mentioned Sal. Maybe some BG-42 or ZDP 189 would top it off nicely. 4 way adjustment for the clip should be standard.
 
Please do not go to a less costly steel.

A low ride clip would be great, as well as a 4 way clip.

Perhaps a lock that is slightly more recessed?

Thanks.
 
Well, let me throw in a support for keeping the current blade to handle ratio. It's nice to have a handle I can get my hand on when I'm forced to carry short blades.
 
orthogonal1 said:
Well, let me throw in a support for keeping the current blade to handle ratio. It's nice to have a handle I can get my hand on when I'm forced to carry short blades.
Click to expand...
Ditto

Vu
 
I have had an on again off again relationship with the Para. At times I have LOVED it and then certain features start to bother me. I got my first one about a year ago and I liked the fact that it was flat ground with a nice blade shape. I also liked the G-10 and the tip down carry. I liked the steel but I would be just as happy with VG-10 or ATS-34.

I ended up getting rid of it because I never got used to the compression lock. I had to think about it everytime I tried to close it and it started to get old. No other lock type gives me as much hassle as the compression.

I ended up getting another one because I kind of missed the do-all Para. I found that the lock on this new one was much easier to close because it was not as "sticky" as the first one I had. That made me happy but I still never really liked the lock idea at all. This new one started off great and I even made a thread about how much I liked it. Then I started to have problems with it. I found that it would get loose if worked even slightly hard. I had cut a plastic bucket and the blade wobble was pretty bad.

I never really understood what the handle was all about either. In a certain grip, it feels like it was made for your hand but in all other grips, it just feels bumpy and akward.

So the things I would change are:
1. Do something with the lock. If you must keep it a compression lock, make it MUCH easier to operate. I suggest making it a liner lock or a frame lock or even a back lock would be better than a compression lock.

2. Make the handle shape more like an Endura or a Police so it feels comfortable in all grips.

3. Improve the piviot. A loose blade makes the entire knife seem like junk. Make it a single screw adjustable as well. Who the heck has two tourqe drivers in that size just laying around? I know knife nuts will but your average knife buyer is not even going to know the pivit is adjustable let alone know how to adjust it. Even if he does, he is going to be pissed when he has to buy two special tools to do the job. He will probably have to make too trips like I did when I found that one wasn't enough.

Those are the big problems and the ones that keep me from keeping my Paras. I may get one in the future but I doubt it. If they improve it, then I will check it out. As for now, I am cooling off on the Para. I can't wait for the Caylpso 3 though! This has winner all over it. Could be a top seller!
 
Sal, I thought it was the perfect knife untill I tried to get used to the "nested compression "lock. It's a good strong lock, but not for me on this knife. I say go to the manix/chinook style lock that is legendary already, or try out a new frame lock. For me, it would be perfect if it had a Manix type lock. Though I usually love and call for the other steels the S30V is perfect in this size and style knife. It was the first larger Spyderco I looked at , but the first one I rejected also, possibly due to my less than dexterous brick layers type hands I'm left with. I'm also very traditional in my thinking about lock designs.

None of this is meant to be an attack on the design of the present lock. I know it passed all the tests for strength, and obviously is quite intelligent and well thought out. Sorry Sal, just have to be honest. No insult is intended as it isn't warranted. It's a good design that doesn't work for me, and I'm speaking for me alone. The looks on the knife are already terrific. Joe L.
 
I'm not an ELU, but I'm probably the biggest fan and harshest critic of the para (I just sold mine a few weeks back...I sure do miss it).

There are two major probs with it for me. The first and most obvious, is the quality control. If it hadn't been for the QC problems that, were, in my experience, really common, I would have kept my first one, and had mine just been a fluke, I would have bought a second non-lemon para. But the problems are so common place in my experience that I won't risk the 115 for a second one. (dont' get me wrong, I'm still a huge spyderco fan, this is just an exception to the rule)

The second problem is more of a general prob with spydie folders, in that they're too dang big closed. I was willing to take the compromise with the para and dodo to enjoy their weird (but lovable) handle to blade ratio. I'm not sure if there's a way out of this one, but that would be the biggest improve I can think of.

Now, one of my personal complaints about the para is the bump on the middle of the handle. It feels weird. Also, I love the pinkie divider on my dodo, if there was some way you could integrate this (subtly, I really like how it looks), it would greatly improve the ergonomics.

Otherwise, this knife gets it so close to perfect it hardly need revision at all.
 
I have been carrying mine for over 2 years now. Other than the sharp corner I would like to see a lower riding clip as other mentioned and finer stippling on the thumb ramp. How about one in the Blue G-10 used on other models? I use mine constantly...I would consider the Paramilitary a home run model.
 
orthogonal1 said:
Well, let me throw in a support for keeping the current blade to handle ratio. It's nice to have a handle I can get my hand on when I'm forced to carry short blades.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% here!! I vote for a low ride clip. I can not think of what else.....Oh, how about making it a framelock?
 
Thanks for asking, Sal. It's already a great knife but there's room for improvement in just about everything (except the Manix).

I'd like to see a Paramilitary with a back lock or liner lock and BLUE G-10 scales. A low ride clip would also be an improvement.
 
This is the knife I want to carry, but don't. And don't misunderstand, I still really like the overall concept of the knife, but after a week at work, here's some things I found:

Tip down carry just didn't work for me. I work in a fairly dirty environment much of the time and as I feared, the pivot/lock area got gritty fairly quick from dirt and debris. The function of the knife wasn't hindered at all and it still performed, but it did get dirty. A tip up/tip down option would have helped in this area. I did notice the bump in the spine against my hand when I placed it in my pocket, but not as much as the thumb ramp. A skinned knuckle at the very end of the week and I was back to my Benchmade Blackwater Seven. Again, tip up might have solved this. The blade itself worked superbly and I liked this shape and size. Very handy.

The handle really needed to be relieved around the small finger (pinkie) area at the back of the handle. A design that worked so well on the full sized Military (which I own) tended to cramp my hand on the smaller knife and as someone else already stated, made the knife more difficult to use in a variety of positions. I do like the materials in both the blade and handle.

The compression lock I've come to terms with and have learned to appreciate. For me, it worked fine. It became very intuitive very quickly and was much less of a problem than I thought it would be. I guess because the knife opens and closes so easily that it was possible to overlook it's true value: it was a strong lock that tended to work well under tough conditions. Filth didn't seem to bother it. I was also concerned about security, but I pulled out some of my liner locks and compared them to how well the blade was held closed after a minor wrist flick. The compression lock actually equalled or beat them all. There it was.

As for construction, I don't fiddle with my knives much so I couldn't tell you there as far as bolts and such. Overall though, I still think this is a great knife that could be even better.
 
Three issues are critically important to me. First, the blade needs to be slightly reduced in length as to be precisely three inches or less. This is a legal concern for me and keeps me from carrying my current Paramilitary. Secondly, a four-way clip would be fantastic on this hard use model. Lastly, the handle to blade ratio is fine, but the current curves of the handle make holding the bulk of it with four fingers uncomfortable.

If the back end of the handle had a more sharply carved out hump or whatever it's called, it would be much more comfortable to hold this knife without choking up onto the choil. As an extension of this, the G10 near the front blade choil should be pointer to better facilitate a precise grip on this area. Otherwise, the blade is fine and I don't think the corner of the tang is too sharp. At least it isn't on the model I have.

I would much rather have a four way clip than a low rider option. It seems that these designs are mutually exclusive anyways.

I'm sure whatever revisions are made that they will greatly benefit we ELUs particularly in the area of ease of carry and ergonomics. Thanks Sal!

:edit: I wholeheartedly agree that adding blue G10 as a handle option would be wonderful. It is one of my favorite aspects of my Yojimbo and would help make the Paramilitary design less threatening to non-knife people.
 
The only improvements I can see other than the sharp corner and 4 way clip are:

1: Lower riding pocket clip

2: Changing the handle swells a bit to allow more room for people with larger hands who do not want to use the choil.
 
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