Bad Paypal 1099

The issue is that now you will have to "prove" a loss or profit. Aka you need receipts/records. And ones that the IRS will accept. Now you have to keep all receipts, etc. if you ever get a receipt. Most of us have not done this in the past. So if you sell an Emerson you bought here two years ago and decided to sell it 4 months from now at $900 .... At a small actual loss. ....You better have receipts or you are going to be taxed on $900 income. Its simply bs.

First, I get the crux of the rule and do believe people operating businesses should pay their owed taxes, including gig workers who get paid through Paypal or similar (the likely main target of this legislation). And I think sellers of items should use G&S when selling with PP. I am a small business owner (not knife or sales related) and work hard to follow the laws, including keeping meticulous records with Quickbooks and paying a CPA to file my taxes. Heck I even do my best to add up my untaxed online purchases and report them on my state return.

I even suppose it’s fair to pay some tax on used personal items we buy and sell later for a profit. But most of us only lose money, as pointed out many times here, and proving that is the major hassle of this situation. For those saying to just keep receipts, I guess that is the best we can do but even that raises questions. The added complication is that even if you buy all new things and save all your BHQ and KSF and SMKW receipts to show what you paid for items (I save all my order confirmation emails at least) how do I even prove that those things are the things I sold? If PP sends out a 1099 that simply says 5 transactions for $900, who is to say what those things were? Coulda been knives or baseball cards or donuts or used socks! Maybe the buyer enters very detailed info about the sale in the notes when sending money that you could print off later but most times it just says “Funds from nbp on BF, thanks!” or something similar. Casual sales like ours via PP do not have much info included. I see it being quite difficult to correlate these records. Any random five purchase receipts that equal more than $900 would satisfy the requirement to show a loss for an audit, right?

And if this is to be enforced I would fully hope next year’s paperwork would have a couple simple lines for 1099K income and original cost of personal items sold, to eliminate all this confusion.



What a mess. Yikes.
 
As a potential buyer, this is a terrible situation. I’m not buying F&F period. Few sell G&S, so new it is.

I’ve only ever sold one knife, but have a few to sell. I’m going to offer G&S and keep total annual sales below $600.

IMHO, The only winners are the knife makers and maybe the IRS.
 
As a potential buyer, this is a terrible situation. I’m not buying F&F period. Few sell G&S, so new it is.

I’ve only ever sold one knife, but have a few to sell. I’m going to offer G&S and keep total annual sales below $600.

IMHO, The only winners are the knife makers and maybe the IRS.
I have to agree with this. I completely understand not wanting to give our spendthrift government (this is NOT a partisan political statement, BOTH sides of the aisle love to waste taxpayer dollars) even more of our hard earned cash to waste, but that said there's no way I'm sending money off to a random stranger on the internet with no recourse.
 
I don't see how knife makers can be a winner out of this mess. This IRS requirement is hurting people's interest in this hobby. For one I will be much more mindful when buying knives because I don't want to go through the hassles of selling and then filing the tax return. My knife purchases have been reduced significantly and will continue so just because of this.
 
I don't see how knife makers can be a winner out of this mess. This IRS requirement is hurting people's interest in this hobby. For one I will be much more mindful when buying knives because I don't want to go through the hassles of selling and then filing the tax return. My knife purchases have been reduced significantly and will continue so just because of this.

Good point! I’m really not sure how it plays out in the macro level. I suppose my position (I’ll buy more new since used is no longer an attractive option) is offset by yours (buying fewer new because selling isn’t an attractive option).

I’m really just sure I’m only buying new at this point (too frustrated by f&f only to even look at used anymore; it’s not worth the time to me).
 
Good point! I’m really not sure how it plays out in the macro level. I suppose my position (I’ll buy more new since used is no longer an attractive option) is offset by yours (buying fewer new because selling isn’t an attractive option).

I’m really just sure I’m only buying new at this point (too frustrated by f&f only to even look at used anymore; it’s not worth the time to me).
I'm not sure I fully understand your logic. There are pros and cons each way to buying new vs buying used. Buying new is almost always more expensive than buying used, so you incur that cost immediately. Unless you only buy knives to look at, the second you use one, it's value will likely go down, so why not buy used to begin with? As a buyer frustrated by F&F, you do have the option of assuming a little bit of extra cost and saying that you will pay by G&S, so I don't understand why that is a frustration to you either. IDK. I guess I need more coffee.
 
I'm not sure I fully understand your logic. There are pros and cons each way to buying new vs buying used. Buying new is almost always more expensive than buying used, so you incur that cost immediately. Unless you only buy knives to look at, the second you use one, it's value will likely go down, so why not buy used to begin with? As a buyer frustrated by F&F, you do have the option of assuming a little bit of extra cost and saying that you will pay by G&S, so I don't understand why that is a frustration to you either. IDK. I guess I need more coffee.

Perhaps because some sellers won't take G&S in order to avoid the 1099 issue...thus offering to pay with G&S won't necessarily land the knife he is trying to purchase.

(I'm drinking coffee right now, so I've no excuse if I got that wrong. 🤣)
 
Blues for the Win. I've had a few Sellers refuse G+S payments when I offered to pay the difference. I think a lot of the Sellers are just using the "Tax Implications" as an easy excuse to request F+F. I'd probably expect changes in PayPal if there's a major shift to F+F payments.

The big impact will be on the multitude of eBay sellers who now have to pay taxes on their sales.
 
Blues for the Win. I've had a few Sellers refuse G+S payments when I offered to pay the difference. I think a lot of the Sellers are just using the "Tax Implications" as an easy excuse to request F+F. I'd probably expect changes in PayPal if there's a major shift to F+F payments.

The big impact will be on the multitude of eBay sellers who now have to pay taxes on their sales.
I'm thinking in the next year or two we're also going to see a dramatic increase in the number of people who show up on the forums and the social media knife groups saying that PayPal banned them and it's certainly because they're anti-2A tyrants and not at all because they took in $3,472.35 in Friends and Family payments in odd numbers and from people with whom they've only had that one transaction.
 
Random philosophical question. If someone's focus is on buying new knives to resell so you can buy more knives to resell is your hobby really knives or is it commerce/amateur retail?
I think it speaks for itself.

It's commercial...whether it's washing machines, knives, used cars or any other thing that can be "flipped" for a profit on an ongoing basis.
 
I'm thinking in the next year or two we're also going to see a dramatic increase in the number of people who show up on the forums and the social media knife groups saying that PayPal banned them and it's certainly because they're anti-2A tyrants and not at all because they took in $3,472.35 in Friends and Family payments in odd numbers and from people with whom they've only had that one transaction.
I have a large family I will have you know any many many friends.
 
Blues for the Win. I've had a few Sellers refuse G+S payments when I offered to pay the difference. I think a lot of the Sellers are just using the "Tax Implications" as an easy excuse to request F+F. I'd probably expect changes in PayPal if there's a major shift to F+F payments.

The big impact will be on the multitude of eBay sellers who now have to pay taxes on their sales.

I will say that it's not quite that simple. Many folks (myself included) previously took PPGS only in payment when selling knives. Speaking only for myself, I was pretty vocal in the past about using GS over FF. However, now that the tax laws have changed, many of us have moved to PPFF. It is what it is. Getting taxed multiple times on a single item, and having to come up with paperwork when/if selling knives we've owned for years to prove that we're not making a huge profit for the US Government to take a cut of, all of that is now on the seller. Frankly, it's nonsense, which is why you're now seeing so many folks asking PPFF. If some folks really don't want to buy knives from those of us using PPFF, that is entirely within their rights. However, your heartfelt, emphatic "Well, I just REFUSE, everyone using PPFF is just looking to scam people!" isn't going to change anyone's minds. The Exchange is rocking along just fine. :thumbsup:
 
I will say that it's not quite that simple. Many folks (myself included) previously took PPGS only in payment when selling knives. Speaking only for myself, I was pretty vocal in the past about using GS over FF. However, now that the tax laws have changed, many of us have moved to PPFF. It is what it is. Getting taxed multiple times on a single item, and having to come up with paperwork when/if selling knives we've owned for years to prove that we're not making a huge profit for the US Government to take a cut of, all of that is now on the seller. Frankly, it's nonsense, which is why you're now seeing so many folks asking PPFF. If some folks really don't want to buy knives from those of us using PPFF, that is entirely within their rights. However, your heartfelt, emphatic "Well, I just REFUSE, everyone using PPFF is just looking to scam people!" isn't going to change anyone's minds. The Exchange is rocking along just fine. :thumbsup:

It may not violate the terms of service of this site, but it is problematic in that it violates the terms of service of PayPal...which is a whole other can of worms and which will probably lead to further inconvenience and expense down the road.
 
It may not violate the terms of service of this site, but it is problematic in that it violates the terms of service of PayPal...which is a whole other can of worms and which will probably lead to further inconvenience and expense down the road.

All things considered, I agree. We'd discussed this some pages ago in this thread, in fact. I fully expect Paypal to either do away with FF, which will have its own issues for a lot of their users, or they're going to make some other move. I expect this to be a temporary solution at best.
 
Perhaps because some sellers won't take G&S in order to avoid the 1099 issue...thus offering to pay with G&S won't necessarily land the knife he is trying to purchase.

(I'm drinking coffee right now, so I've no excuse if I got that wrong. 🤣)

That’s want I meant, just better said!

I don’t mind paying the G&S differential, but many sellers are not offering that option (I understand why).

I also get I’d likely save some $ buying used vs. new, if I don’t get ripped off in the process. On very high demand knives (which seems to be almost everything I like) the cost differential is usually minimal and I don’t mind waiting.

In the end, getting ripped off with little recourse would annoy me enough that I’d rather just pay the full new price and be done with it, even if I have to wait a year or two. Maybe it’s not rational, but it’s where I am.

Anyway, when I do sell... I’ll offer G&S.

Edit by staff: Knife description removed by staff pending gold membership.
 
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What is the definition of friends.... or family for that matter?



Aren't we ALL friends?

It has never been a ? Of is the person a friend, but is the money a gift or a purchase.
And not all those that took or are now taking f&f are scammers. In the past many were just too cheap to pay the fees, and now it has gone beyond that

Personally I still believe you should use G&S for transactions, and if you choose not to, don't use PP. There have always been excuses for using F&F-They didn't hold water then and IMO they still don't
But it is just my opinion

 
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