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- May 3, 2011
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- 13,973
The correct amount would be $10.61, pp fees are actually something like $.30 plus 2.9% I use a paypal calculator online when I need to figure that out.
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All For Sale threads must have a pic showing the knife being sold with written date listed, your username & Bladeforums or BFC to prevent photo harvesting from elsewhere - scammers hate this one trick! The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
PayPal "Gift"
- Thread starter HappyDaddy
- Start date
- Status
The correct amount would be $10.61, pp fees are actually something like $.30 plus 2.9% I use a paypal calculator online when I need to figure that out.
Knives are a hobby for me. If anyone wants to put my money in their pocket they will do the math and post price including shipping and fees. Any mention of friends and family or gift kills any chance of a sale. When I see posts for knives I want but don't meet these criteria I am tempted to send a polite "thanks but no thanks because. . . . " and explain but I'm sure this would result in hurt feelings and nasty responses. It's like I told my sons when they were teens accompanying me to pawn shops, "If you can't get the deal you want just walk away. The worst that can happen is you still have your money in your pocket!"
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
- Messages
- 1,652
That's some good advice!
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2015
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- 853
I find this discussion interesting as I just had a transaction selling a knife to a member here and settled on a price that included fees and shipping. He offered to pay via friends and family to save me the fees. My response was Good and Services is fine.
With due respect to the OP, I think the mods have given warning and encouraged us to follow the PayPal rules. Like others here have said it is up to us to follow them or not. I'll choose not to deal with people who 1) demand friends and family 2) Ask buyers to use friends and family because they have such excellent feedback here and on other forums - so they must be above reproach.
With due respect to the OP, I think the mods have given warning and encouraged us to follow the PayPal rules. Like others here have said it is up to us to follow them or not. I'll choose not to deal with people who 1) demand friends and family 2) Ask buyers to use friends and family because they have such excellent feedback here and on other forums - so they must be above reproach.
I'd say at least 1 out of every 5 transactions that I do is with someone on the forum with a pristine record. In those cases I automatically paypal gift. And I get the knife when I get it knowing they would make it right if it went bad. As I would make it right if something was not right. So the gift option is sometimes ok. The forum often times ends up being a swap meet with some good online friends in that way. If I like a price I go for it if I don't, I don't.
The only time it's sometimes ok is when the person is actually gifting someone money.
If one is paying for goods or services by gift it is defrauding Paypal of their rightful fees for using their service. It is a criminal act.
That's the core of it. Once you start reviewing and editing ad content, you assume responsibility for the entire ad. There is no real issue here anyway. I have seen several ads requesting "paypal gift", I have purchased some of those items, and I simply advised the seller that I do not do "paypal gift" transactions. Sometimes they come back and ask for an additional fee, which is their prerogative, to which I might reply requesting additional discounts on the item; The net end selling price is what counts, not whether the seller wants to call it a base price with additional fees (shipping, paypal, packaging, administrative, etc.....who cares?).
I have yet to have any seller back out of a transaction over my requirement to use paypal correctly. If they ever do, it would be an indication of somebody that I would not want to do business with under any circumstance.
n2s
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,987
I appreciate the good and thoughtful discussion. While I stand by my assertions in the OP, many of you have given good reasons for maintaining the status quo. My takeaway is that the consensus is that using "gift" is, at a minimum, foolish, but even more, wrong. It seems that logistical objections to a new rule are seen as the main (though not only) impediment to changing the rules. That's understandable. If there is a counter argument to that it would be this: Laws/rules are intended to have a normative effect. In other words, even in the absence of 100% enforcement (think speed limits), the fact of the law/rule is intended to, and will, change behavior. If the overwhelming majority believe that it is inappropriate for sellers to require payment by PP "gift," I think BFC can and should prohibit listing it as a requirement in sales threads. When moderators peruse sales threads, as I assume they do, locking those that violate the rule would pretty quickly reduce the problem.
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- May 3, 2011
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- 13,973
- Joined
- May 3, 2011
- Messages
- 13,973
)You identified yourself as someone who thinks its ok to steal from PayPal and Ebay.
"
I will also say that as far as I am concerned paypal and ebay are a necessary evil....and I am certainly not opposed to "sticking it to them" by using the gift option. Providing that the amount of money is small, and only if the seller/trader has some reputation to back it up. "
What I quoted is you saying you're fine with violating service agreements and stealing user fees from companies you use.
So thanks for identifying yourself.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 6,173
You can't fix stupid, whether by legislation or by "rules".
If Stupid pays by "gift" rather than by "goods & services" WHEN PAYING FOR GOODS OR SERVICES and Stupid gets scammed, well, that's Stupid's problem. ESPECIALLY with all the threads bitching and whining and moaning about getting ripped off. Remember the adage - "You get what you pay for." So if you don't "pay" for it but "gift" for it, there's only 1 person to blame when you get what you paid for - nothing.
I have never bought from anyone who requests "gift" payment and I never will. If I ever get around to selling any of my copious quantity of sharp/pointy things, I won't ask for it.
If you are selling something, whether I would like to have your knife or not doesn't matter. You are asking me to break the law. To the scofflaws out there, my stance may seem odd, ridiculous, stupid or some other denigrating term. Doesn't matter what "they" think or say.
Part of my personal credo is "I do not lie, cheat or steal, nor do I tolerate those who do."
I choose NOT to do business with thieves. Avoiding Paypal's fees by asking for a payment for goods to be paid by "gift" is "Theft of Services". You are illegally using Paypal's services when you conduct business via Paypal and scam Paypal out of their user fee. Paypal has built the servers and written the code to provide a secure way for folks to conduct business easily over the internet. Well, actually, the Paypal accountants have paid someone to assemble and install the servers and someone else to write the code and load it on the servers, but that's just me being picky.
Another aspect of asking to be paid via "gift" is that if the seller is too lazy/incompetent/stupid to be able to
1 - figure out what Paypal's fees are,
2 - figure out how much it will cost the seller to mail it to me
and
3 - then add it all up to a final figure so the he/she (the seller) ends up with the amount of money they want on their pocket after everything is done,
then how can I trust that individual to be adequately competent so as to be able to box up and address the package to me in a way that it arrives?
From MY viewpoint, asking for me to purchase a tangible item via gift means that 1 or more of the following statements apply
You can't do simple math.
You are lazy.
You are a thief.
It is not BF's place to keep us "safe" on the internet.
It is not BF's duty to make sure ANYONE is happy.
It is not BF's place to enforce any other organization's rules.
Telling BF that it needs to do all of the above by banning an illegal activity just to make sure someone doesn't get ripped off is a "nanny state" attitude.
Part of the problem in this country right now is the feel-good BS that the PTB know best - that they need to protect everyone from anything bad. That's why we have "participation trophies" so no one feels left out or is a "loser". That's why we have some damn many laws on the books that even the lawyers don't know them all. That's why no one wants to hurt Little Johnny's or Little Sally's poor little egos by actually having the audacity to FAIL to little idiot when they don't want to do the work and learn.
It boils down to personal responsibility.
Assuming the responsibility for one's obligations,
Taking responsibility for one's actions.
Requiring others to be responsible for their actions in their interactions with you.
If Stupid pays by "gift" rather than by "goods & services" WHEN PAYING FOR GOODS OR SERVICES and Stupid gets scammed, well, that's Stupid's problem. ESPECIALLY with all the threads bitching and whining and moaning about getting ripped off. Remember the adage - "You get what you pay for." So if you don't "pay" for it but "gift" for it, there's only 1 person to blame when you get what you paid for - nothing.
I have never bought from anyone who requests "gift" payment and I never will. If I ever get around to selling any of my copious quantity of sharp/pointy things, I won't ask for it.
If you are selling something, whether I would like to have your knife or not doesn't matter. You are asking me to break the law. To the scofflaws out there, my stance may seem odd, ridiculous, stupid or some other denigrating term. Doesn't matter what "they" think or say.
Part of my personal credo is "I do not lie, cheat or steal, nor do I tolerate those who do."
I choose NOT to do business with thieves. Avoiding Paypal's fees by asking for a payment for goods to be paid by "gift" is "Theft of Services". You are illegally using Paypal's services when you conduct business via Paypal and scam Paypal out of their user fee. Paypal has built the servers and written the code to provide a secure way for folks to conduct business easily over the internet. Well, actually, the Paypal accountants have paid someone to assemble and install the servers and someone else to write the code and load it on the servers, but that's just me being picky.
Another aspect of asking to be paid via "gift" is that if the seller is too lazy/incompetent/stupid to be able to
1 - figure out what Paypal's fees are,
2 - figure out how much it will cost the seller to mail it to me
and
3 - then add it all up to a final figure so the he/she (the seller) ends up with the amount of money they want on their pocket after everything is done,
then how can I trust that individual to be adequately competent so as to be able to box up and address the package to me in a way that it arrives?
From MY viewpoint, asking for me to purchase a tangible item via gift means that 1 or more of the following statements apply
You can't do simple math.
You are lazy.
You are a thief.
It is not BF's place to keep us "safe" on the internet.
It is not BF's duty to make sure ANYONE is happy.
It is not BF's place to enforce any other organization's rules.
Telling BF that it needs to do all of the above by banning an illegal activity just to make sure someone doesn't get ripped off is a "nanny state" attitude.
Part of the problem in this country right now is the feel-good BS that the PTB know best - that they need to protect everyone from anything bad. That's why we have "participation trophies" so no one feels left out or is a "loser". That's why we have some damn many laws on the books that even the lawyers don't know them all. That's why no one wants to hurt Little Johnny's or Little Sally's poor little egos by actually having the audacity to FAIL to little idiot when they don't want to do the work and learn.
It boils down to personal responsibility.
Assuming the responsibility for one's obligations,
Taking responsibility for one's actions.
Requiring others to be responsible for their actions in their interactions with you.
- Joined
- May 22, 2002
- Messages
- 85
This right here ^^^
We are all big boys and girls. Responsible for the decisions we make. The forums, just as in the real world do not benefit from bigger government. Use F and F and get burned, you made a bad choice. Yeah the scammer is a s**tbag but you allowed it to happen. None of us here are babes in the woods.
As for people requiring F and F as payment, well you don't have to buy. As was previously said, the market will dictate the manner of marketing. If enough people avoid sellers requiring F and F then soon they will stop doing so.
Making new rules just creates the need for more policing because the guilty parties will start working other angles.
You can't fix stupid, whether by legislation or by "rules".
If Stupid pays by "gift" rather than by "goods & services" WHEN PAYING FOR GOODS OR SERVICES and Stupid gets scammed, well, that's Stupid's problem. ESPECIALLY with all the threads bitching and whining and moaning about getting ripped off. Remember the adage - "You get what you pay for." So if you don't "pay" for it but "gift" for it, there's only 1 person to blame when you get what you paid for - nothing.
I have never bought from anyone who requests "gift" payment and I never will. If I ever get around to selling any of my copious quantity of sharp/pointy things, I won't ask for it.
If you are selling something, whether I would like to have your knife or not doesn't matter. You are asking me to break the law. To the scofflaws out there, my stance may seem odd, ridiculous, stupid or some other denigrating term. Doesn't matter what "they" think or say.
Part of my personal credo is "I do not lie, cheat or steal, nor do I tolerate those who do."
I choose NOT to do business with thieves. Avoiding Paypal's fees by asking for a payment for goods to be paid by "gift" is "Theft of Services". You are illegally using Paypal's services when you conduct business via Paypal and scam Paypal out of their user fee. Paypal has built the servers and written the code to provide a secure way for folks to conduct business easily over the internet. Well, actually, the Paypal accountants have paid someone to assemble and install the servers and someone else to write the code and load it on the servers, but that's just me being picky.
Another aspect of asking to be paid via "gift" is that if the seller is too lazy/incompetent/stupid to be able to
1 - figure out what Paypal's fees are,
2 - figure out how much it will cost the seller to mail it to me
and
3 - then add it all up to a final figure so the he/she (the seller) ends up with the amount of money they want on their pocket after everything is done,
then how can I trust that individual to be adequately competent so as to be able to box up and address the package to me in a way that it arrives?
From MY viewpoint, asking for me to purchase a tangible item via gift means that 1 or more of the following statements apply
You can't do simple math.
You are lazy.
You are a thief.
It is not BF's place to keep us "safe" on the internet.
It is not BF's duty to make sure ANYONE is happy.
It is not BF's place to enforce any other organization's rules.
Telling BF that it needs to do all of the above by banning an illegal activity just to make sure someone doesn't get ripped off is a "nanny state" attitude.
Part of the problem in this country right now is the feel-good BS that the PTB know best - that they need to protect everyone from anything bad. That's why we have "participation trophies" so no one feels left out or is a "loser". That's why we have some damn many laws on the books that even the lawyers don't know them all. That's why no one wants to hurt Little Johnny's or Little Sally's poor little egos by actually having the audacity to FAIL to little idiot when they don't want to do the work and learn.
It boils down to personal responsibility.
Assuming the responsibility for one's obligations,
Taking responsibility for one's actions.
Requiring others to be responsible for their actions in their interactions with you.
Thank you for your lucid and cogent post. You did a great job of expressing my feelings and did a better job at wordsmithing that I would have.
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