Phill Hartsfield Fans?

No surprise to see the Hartsfield haters weigh in on this especially the all knowing WWG.
Phill has been making full time since 1976, his own versions of japanese style knives and swords. No disrespect to RJ, saw his blades at a knife show in 93, they were loveless style knives, not japanese style. Just look at the old Knife books edited by Ken Warner, Phills knives are there since Knives 81.
Have many of Phills knives and swords and have hung out at his Garden Grove shop from dec 96 to 03.
Yes, Ive even seen Sensei Obata and Yamazaki cut at Phills backyard. I personally saw Obata cut through a 2 by 4 in one stroke. Yamazaki is lesser known but hes been cutting with Phills katana since 1986. A lot of their cuts were filmed on video by Obatas students and Obata himself did a very short video of his own. All the videos can be viewed at Phills Garden Grove shop.
Obata uses Phills katana in nearly all his demos except the ones in Japan where they only accept full traditional swords. Obata speaks very highly of Phills swords in his own Shinkendo newsletter and you can read his testimonial in full on Phills swords on the first page of Phills catalog.
My personal experience? My first sword was a Don Fogg. After seeing Phills stuff in use and after using his blades, I sold my Fogg through Nordic.
Just head over to his shop in Garden Grove and go cut and see for yourself.
 
I'm certainly not a Hartsfield hater. My comments were based solely on my experience with his knives, and what I consider to be important. I'm very sure that his knives and swords cut extemely well, but for the kind of money he charges I want a knife that looks like some effort was put into finishing it nicely. If someone considers his knives and swords to offer good value then that is all that should really matter, not what myself or anyone else thinks.
 
Article in the Shinkendo newsletter :- Volume 1, issue 3 - July 1995
It can be found online at the Shinkendo website. Regarding Sensei Obatas sword, I remember Obata saying he brought it in for a full resharpening once. (His daughter actually translates for him, as his English isnt that good.)
 
I have seen both knife makers works and would like to own an example of each. Can anyone tell me the best place to get a used one or second hand for sale? I rarely see either for sale any way.

Thanks for any help!
 
Talon,

So because Phil was making Japanese style knives before RJ that makes him better?

You do know that it is generally agreed upon that Bob Lum was the first US maker to make a Tanto. Does that diminish Phil's knives in your mind? I would think not.

My comments were based on selling knives from both makers and side by side comparisons. The Katana being excluded as RJ has not made one. My comments are more than fair.

All knowing? Hardly. Lots of experience with side by side comparisons of many different custom knife makers? More than most.

BTW, Don't hate Phil or his Knives. Just prefers RJ's for reasons stated in this and previous posts.

WWG
 
TALON158 said:
Yes, Ive even seen Sensei Obata and Yamazaki cut at Phills backyard. I personally saw Obata cut through a 2 by 4 in one stroke. Yamazaki is lesser known but hes been cutting with Phills katana since 1986. A lot of their cuts were filmed on video by Obatas students and Obata himself did a very short video of his own. All the videos can be viewed at Phills Garden Grove shop.

My personal experience? My first sword was a Don Fogg. After seeing Phills stuff in use and after using his blades, I sold my Fogg through Nordic.
Just head over to his shop in Garden Grove and go cut and see for yourself.
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Talon-you gotta name, and who do you study with?

Reason I ask, is you might be familiar with the West Coast Taikai. Open to all those that practice JSA, and right in Phill's back yard in Costa Mesa, Labor Day weekend, 2007. I'll be there, so will about 100 other practicing cutters. Last one, did not see a Phill Hartsfield cutter in competition OR used in forms, not sure why that is.

Howard Clark was there, though, in person, and represented with swords on the cutting floor. Have you ever seen a 12 mat roll cut? You would there. Not that easy-ass beach mat either, goza; tatami omote.

Since you are throwing around names like "hater", I'll counter that you were straight up foolish to sell the Fogg through Nordic, you could have gotten more for it here.

You don't have to like WWG, many don't, but he does a lot for custom knives, as far as representing makers to the public, probably does a better job than they would in person, and he knows a lot. Probably more than you.

I have heard about the Hartsfield groupies that hang out around his shop, shlurping up his stories and such. Every maker has them, but the PH'rs are a rabid bunch.:D

Best Regards, and hope to see you at the Taikai,

STeven Garsson
 
just a question , since WWG is a knowledgeable person about knives , who is he ? much easier to weigh someone's opinion if you know who they are.

just curious.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
just a question , since WWG is a knowledgeable person about knives , who is he ? much easier to weigh someone's opinion if you know who they are.

just curious.
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Can't send you a PM, confirm if you e-mail is useable, and I'll send answer to your question.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
"You do know that it is generally agreed upon that Bob Lum was the first US maker to make a Tanto. Does that diminish Phil's knives in your mind? I would think not."
According to Russell Manyard, author of the book TANTO(published by Unique Publications, 1986), both started making around the same time period.
I highly respect Bob Lum, and am sure both had their own designs.
Phill did not know of Lum till the Solvang show in the mid eighties.
Have had friendly discussions with Bud Lang at Solvang in the mid nineties and even he is not sure.
I am not a "blinded" Phill follower, the earliest PUBLISHED date I can find for an Americanized Tanto made here is 1975, by Bob Engnath. (pg 70, Tanto, Japanese Knives and Knife Fighting by Russell Maynard, Unique Publications, 1986.) To show im not just pulling all this from air...
 
Since you are throwing around names like "hater", I'll counter that you were straight up foolish to sell the Fogg through Nordic, you could have gotten more for it here.

You don't have to like WWG, many don't, but he does a lot for custom knives, as far as representing makers to the public, probably does a better job than they would in person, and he knows a lot. Probably more than you.

I have heard about the Hartsfield groupies that hang out around his shop, shlurping up his stories and such. Every maker has them, but the PH'rs are a rabid bunch
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Steven, Ive lurked on BF for a long time, even before I joined. Always appreciated and respected your posts, even thought I dont agree with your choice of knives sometimes. I have never insulted you, why are you doing it to me and other Hartsfield collectors? Think its uncalled for to collectively call us Hartsfield groupies, shlurping up his stories.
Like you, I collect other makers as well.
And I never said I know more than WWG. I just never met a dealer who continously puts down veteran makers, have you? Other dealers who dont like a particular makers work would just politely say,"Sorry, I dont carry his work." Is it so hard to have a bit of tact?
Im not an iado practitioner, just an amatuer who likes to cut with his swords/knives. I brought up Obata and Yamazaki because Ive seen them cut, thats all. Have seen and held a Clark L6 Bainite katana, but have never cut with it. Have heard favorable reports of its cutting abilities.
Hope we can agree to disagree, Steven. You going to AKI in October this year?
 
TALON158 said:
Steven, Ive lurked on BF for a long time, even before I joined. Always appreciated and respected your posts, even thought I dont agree with your choice of knives sometimes. I have never insulted you, why are you doing it to me and other Hartsfield collectors? Think its uncalled for to collectively call us Hartsfield groupies, shlurping up his stories.
Like you, I collect other makers as well.
And I never said I know more than WWG. I just never met a dealer who continously puts down veteran makers, have you? Other dealers who dont like a particular makers work would just politely say,"Sorry, I dont carry his work." Is it so hard to have a bit of tact?
Im not an iado practitioner, just an amatuer who likes to cut with his swords/knives. I brought up Obata and Yamazaki because Ive seen them cut, thats all. Have seen and held a Clark L6 Bainite katana, but have never cut with it. Have heard favorable reports of its cutting abilities.
Hope we can agree to disagree, Steven. You going to AKI in October this year?
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Well, this is a nicely worded post, and obviously you were reacting with some defensiveness previously to the other posts. To reiterate, insults were not intended.

That said, if you have read my previous posts, I'm VERY down on collectors who trumpet the virtues of ANY one maker to the exclusion of all others. Every maker has strong suits, and less strong characteristics. There is a guy that posts as "Lum Nut", TonyCCW, but you hardly ever see him espouse Bob Lum over other makers, even when goaded to do so.

I would prefer to have WWG in the community, doing what he does, with lapses in tact, than not have him in the community, or AT WORST, blowing sunshine up everyone's ass.

Sorry if you took offense at the "groupies" thing, but I have seen it far too frequently in this community. If that was premature, so be it, if you are going to the AKI, I'll be there, we can certainly discuss our differences like gentlemen over some refreshing drinks and tasty prime rib!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Talon,

It is not about me knowing more than any one else. It is about my experience with selling and using Hartsfield and Martin knives.

My clients depend on me to give them honest assessments of all types of custom knives. When buying custom knives for resale one of my criteria is does the knife provide value for the money.

For the sake of argument, lets say Phil's knives can cut a 1/2" hemp rope 30 times before the knife will no longer shave hair. Compare that to RJ's knives wich would only cut 27 times. Are Phil's knives worth 2 to 3 times more for a similar knife? For most the answer would be no.

Then factor in that RJ actually puts a finish on his knife, uses better materials (especially in the handle) and does all of his own work.

If you were new to customs knives I think this is information that you would like to know. This was exactly the type of information that Paul Basch gave me after I wasted thousands of dollars on my own trying to figure out the market. The market was a lot simpler back then.

If you like Phil's knives which you obviously do, then it is fair that you defend him and his work. As it is obvious, from the "using end" you know far more about Phil's knives than I do

Just as it is fair for others to voice their opinions who have experience with Phil's work, but have a different opinion than yours.

STeven,

Thank you for your post.

WWG
 
Man, I still started this post and named it "PHILL HARTSFIELD FANS?" ...what does RJ MARTIN and LOVELESS AND BOB LUM have anything to do with HARTSFIELD? one is in his 40's i'm guessing maybe 50s and one is over 75 years old....what is there to compare? There is a reason one is capable of making a katana and the one doesn't. It's obvious now to me if compared in the real world, who would actually win as far as utility and duty. But putting all that aside, who cares who's blades are preferred more? I simply asked if there were any Hartsfield Fans out there...didn't start this post for a bunch of arguing to go on. Seems all pretty petty from a bunch of grown men saying "my car is faster than yours...blah blah". You like the blades you like for a reason, no need to rain on anyone else parade. The question the "Hartsfield Haters" should be thinking is, how the hell does a guy who puts a low grit finish and makes a handle out of shoelaces get a price of $550.00+ up. The metal costs i'm guessing if i can do the math right about 5 bucks. the laces and epoxy another 2 bucks, the leather another 5 bucks, the paper lined aluminum another dollar MAYBE and a belt clip $1.50 and according to many, looks like a "drug behind car" finish. No need for stingray or mahagony or earth magnets. Just one sole purpose - to cut. But let me tell you that to the real guys that actually USE KNIVES instead of collecting them only, which blade they would choose if their life depended on it. (excuse me if there are any typos)
 
plcustom said:
Man, I still started this post and named it "PHILL HARTSFIELD FANS?" ...what does RJ MARTIN and LOVELESS AND BOB LUM have anything to do with HARTSFIELD? one is in his 40's i'm guessing maybe 50s and one is over 75 years old....what is there to compare? There is a reason one is capable of making a katana and the one doesn't. It's obvious now to me if compared in the real world, who would actually win as far as utility and duty.
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Seems to me that you came here with an agenda.:rolleyes:

If you want simple "heck yeahs", newb, you are in the wrong damned place. WE have discussions and share opinions here, you can be an active part of that, or you can lurk.:mad:

You want to chastise, save it for your kids, wife or dog. You want to contribute something, well, let's see what you bring to the table. You want to ask a simple question, ask it.:cool:

You want to troll for positive feedback re: a maker of some degree of contention, well you got 1/2 of what you asked for.:eek:

If you want to see cutting first hand, PM me, I'm in your back yard, I'll take you to where the cutting is.

STeven Garsson
 
I have had three of Hartsfield's knives, and across the board was surprised at there mediocre cutting ability while using each during a several week period.

The most disappointing was the Hartsfield 'Chef' knife...really didn't cut worth a crap, and I received it unused.

For all the hype guess I just expected more...

Sold the kozuka and chef knives. Traded the large tanto for a Fogg, really felt I got the better deal...the Fogg cuts like a razor. :)

JMHO, YMMV,

-Michael
 
Just my opinion but I do not think anyone should bring someone's kids wife or dog into a knife conversation . Maybe you did not mean it that way but still I think it bad taste. You should never talk about someone else's dog. Not trying to be offensive sorry if this comes off that way. Joe
 
I have three dogs! and all like knife fighting! Wife not so much

Steven: Point well taken. Thank you.

See even posting what I posted gets some feedback. Fuuun indeed. It's when the comments start to die when it gets booooring.
 
Keith
I apologize. Was just trying to make a point. Just saying the guys that use it in a practice of some sort or military or just to shank someone! j/k. All in all, i apologize if I have offended you Sir.
 
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