Phill Hartsfield Fans?

fwiw, i have handled only one hartsfield. my friend has a green kozuka (i think). very sharp, feels good in the hand. not on my "want list" necessarily, but i definitely see the attraction to his work.

i like the workmanlike feel and grind, simple construction, and chisel edge. though i imagine it is tough to sharpen at home.
 
I'd be interested in seeing a side by side rope cutting test with a couple of knives - maybe Hartsfield, Martin, Fogg, Clark (but I think for traditional swords, we should know who the polisher is also) etc etc....I'm really quite fascinated and amazed about the cutting ability and performance. As to value, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and accordingly, the value. One man's meat is another man's toxic cocktail.

BUT, if Hartsfields really cut like that and hold their edge after hundreds of hemp rope cuts, then we should be applauding the man's heat-treat skills and not questioning the value of his knives. Does a high-performance knife created by skilled heat-treating no longer command a monetary "value", or is only the look/finish aspect that can command value? just a thought.....

I really hope someone can review them....I'm all for performance....although I do like the aesthetics of a knife as well.
 
SPYKEN Amen. Phill has never said he makes a pretty blade just a cutting tool mean't to perform. By the way I really like all the makers you mentioned. You brought up a really good point
 
I just talked to Phill on the phone 2 minutes ago and he said there's no JSA cutting in his back yard on Memorial day weekend 2007. What did I miss there Steve?

It's all about the HEAT TREATMENT ! Anyone can make a really beautiful awesome knife/sword but if it goes dull after 2 cuts, it's nothing but a P.O.S.
 
Get Joe to review them Spyken! i'm sure Phill will sharpen his strongboy for free and whateve else need sharpening. Doubt it will need it though. I'll even supply the hemp rope!
 
Morimotom: Not hard to sharpen at home if you have a buffer/some 300 grit compound and some emery compound to clean it up. (unless you need to regrind on the blade!)
 
I don't own any Hartsfields but I got to meet Phil and his son in Vegas 06. Very nice people and awesome blades. I also got to cut some hemp rope with one of his tantos.

I like his style and finish on the blades. I'd love to have one of the Strongboy tantos.

As far as price goes, its worth what the customer is willing to pay for it.

Oh yeah, you guys need to post some pics for me to drool over.
 
plcustom said:
I have heard that although RJ Martin's blades are finished very well and fit very well, for instance in a hemp rope cutting test, Mr. Hartsfield's blades will cut 500+ plus times the same piece of hemp rope 1" inch thick, where as Mr. Martin's will do only in the high 30s to low 40s.
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I have done test cutting on hemp rope with mild steel and that is the kind of difference you would see vs a quality tool steel. This kind of extreme exaggeration does cast that side of the arguement in a poor light because it degrades the entire perspective.

That being said, you would assume since the man is making knives for much longer he would command higher prices. I find the whole materials arguement silly because that is an inconsequential part of most knives, especially the high end ones. What you are paying for with custom work is the experience of the craftsman.

A lot of people don't want a high finish on working knives, I find it just absurd because the blade finish is marred immediately in use as is the handle. Thus that aspect is not relevant to many. That being said, if the grinds are the same angle on the same stock then they will cut the same, if they follow the same heat treatment protocols they will have the same properties.

In general it is hard to argue (rationally) that some maker has such a revolutionary process that they get such a massive improvement in A2. This is a common tool steel which is still well used. Why not go to the industry and tell them you can improve performance by 1000%.

If you don't want the millions this will bring then just use it to greatly help your favorite charity.

-Cliff
 
plcustom said:
I just talked to Phill on the phone 2 minutes ago and he said there's no JSA cutting in his back yard on Memorial day weekend 2007. What did I miss there Steve?

It's all about the HEAT TREATMENT ! Anyone can make a really beautiful awesome knife/sword but if it goes dull after 2 cuts, it's nothing but a P.O.S.
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"His back yard" is a figure of speech, PL.

The event is being presented by the Senpokan Dojo, Big Tony Alvarez is the head of that dojo, at the Costa Mesa Hilton. I indicated the name of the event, and figured if you were interested you would do a search on Google, or some such, not ask Phill Hartsfield.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I have done test cutting on hemp rope with mild steel and that is the kind of difference you would see vs a quality tool steel. This kind of extreme exaggeration does cast that side of the arguement in a poor light because it degrades the entire perspective.

That being said, you would assume since the man is making knives for much longer he would command higher prices. I find the whole materials arguement silly because that is an inconsequential part of most knives, especially the high end ones. What you are paying for with custom work is the experience of the craftsman.

A lot of people don't want a high finish on working knives, I find it just absurd because the blade finish is marred immediately in use as is the handle. Thus that aspect is not relevant to many. That being said, if the grinds are the same angle on the same stock then they will cut the same, if they follow the same heat treatment protocols they will have the same properties.

In general it is hard to argue (rationally) that some maker has such a revolutionary process that they get such a massive improvement in A2. This is a common tool steel which is still well used. Why not go to the industry and tell them you can improve performance by 1000%.

-Cliff
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1. Cliff, to assume that because a maker has longer TIR, that they should automatically get a higher price for the work is fairly invalid. What if the quality of the F/F sucks? This is an important factor for knife Collectors, not necessarily users.

2. Using knives coming in all different categories of use. Knives in this class were designed for defensive use, primarily, not cutting rope or cardboard. In addition, when we are talking about a higher level of finish, it is demontstrating the skill level of the maker, as much as how they care about how their products look. Maybe RJ will chime in with the "why" he is not satisfied with an 80 grit belt finish.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
1. Cliff, to assume that because a maker has longer TIR, that they should automatically get a higher price for the work is fairly invalid.
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True from a logical standpoint, but it isn't like that is how prices are set. People assume things and the market responds.

Knives in this class were designed for defensive use, primarily, not cutting rope or cardboard.
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Are they better users because of the higher finish? Plus your point seems to be invalid because of the significant amount of utility use described in the above by the actual users of the knives in question.

In addition, when we are talking about a higher level of finish, it is demontstrating the skill level of the maker ...
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This is also invalid. You assume that because he doesn't do something he can't because of lack of skill. he could simply not care, this doesn't mean he isn't able. Plus maybe as has been argued in the above he puts his skill into performance.

-Cliff
 
I treated myself to this k-bit for my 35th birthday...I don't know how many of these are in existence (but it is not too many ;) )...

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I am a huge fan of his work and hope to get a few more.

RL
 
Today I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to cut 1", 2" green bamboo with a Hartsfield - clean cuts, smooth as a finely sanded table top. His prices may be high, but I am now a fan, and I will save up for one.

Not sure about the F&F thing vs utility, but I don't want a pretty knife only. I want a knife that can cut, and hopefully has great fit and finish.
 
I think a nice finish is nice but as soon as its used for more than slicing paper, it will get scratched. A nice finish demostrates the maker's skill at producing a nice finish, it dosen't necessary mean the rest of the knife is to the same standard.

Most of the time, a nice finish is put on to help to sell the knife, its a sales device, it does not make it any better for cutting or chopping.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Have you tried other knives of a similar geometry?

-Cliff
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no Cliff, I have not. first time I used a zero grind blade on green bamboo. We had a v-grind and a convex grind for comparison (just a rough comparison, not a structured methodical one like yours).

All I know is I was impressed! :thumbup:
 
It would be interesting to see if there really is a difference in cutting ability in some of these knives. Fikes for example also makes similar geometry as does R.J. Martin. Quite frankly I would be willing to bet strongly that anyone would be impressed with the cutting ability of any of them and there would be little difference and the majority would be attributed to the user skill/strength.That being said, many of Hartsfields knives look to have really shallow bevels to me and I would be curious as to how they would compare to other knives with much higher bevels which also had acute edges.

-Cliff
 
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