Phill Hartsfield Fans?

I have followed this thread with interest the last week. Being new to the custom scene, I still have a lot to learn and have gained vast knowlege on these forums. Really appreciate the input from so many. I would hesitate to make a comment one way or the other on the Harsfield/Martin argument, but I do know we all have our favorite styles, types and makers of customs. It usually comes down to materials, skills and TRUST in the craftsman's product.

It is good to follow the comparisons and knowledge side-by-side of the collectors/dealers favorites. Much can be learned from those lively discussions. I do think that the worst thing that happens, though, is when it turns real negative on one side or the other. Reminds me of the quote, "He who throws dirt looses ground".

Just my 2-cents worth. It can be argued how much that is.


- Joe
 
Cliff: any goober can heat treat a piece of A2. I can do it with a torch. Does that mean it will be hard? Sure! Does that mean it will be even heat treated? heck no! One person is heat treating A2 like the A2 steel manufacturer says to do. The other person has figured out the limits of heat treating temperature you can take A2. All data says to heat from 1725-1800ish degrees Farenheit for specific times and pre-heating, etc etc. What the other man figured out is that you can go even hotter than 1800 and he knows if you take it too hot, it won't harden. So yes, you can get a 1000 (or whatever number you came up with as an example times) more strong of a blade. so in that case, the man should almost be commanding 1000 times the price of the man that does it at standard time and temperature, but he's only charging twice as much.

I think people talk a bunch of crap about Phill never having ever really USED a knife from him. I know one knife seller talked a bunch of crap about him simply because Phill would not touch up or clean up a few blades the seller wanted to resell to customers. He wanted Phill to do it for free and got upset when Phill would not. How does a man (like Phill) make a living by doing things for free so another man can make a profit from something he made? It's guys like him that give Phill a bad name for no other good reason other than trying to mooch off a nice guy simply because he's nice and when they don't get what they want, they call him names and his knives junk. Phill does not deserve that as I'm sure you wouldn't either if you were Phill.
 
jack76 said:
So yes, you can get a 1000 (or whatever number you came up with as an example times) more strong of a blade.
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If you raise A2 over the recommended temperature you will put more of the carbide elements into soak and the austenite grain size will start to increase. This will increase retained austenite, which is already a huge problem with A2, and the larger grains will reduce edge stability.

It is possible to compensate for this with a reduced time at temperature, a very fast quench and multiple cold treatments, but there would be no way you could produce extreme changes such as noted. Who ever is actually saying this, ask them specifically exactly what is happening to the microstructure of the steel to increase performance by that much.

There really is no answer to that question.

Phill does not deserve that ...
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Yes, I have noticed a huge bias against him here. You do not see the same arguements against other makers and they could be used just as readily. He makes a knife designed to work, seems to not care about finish as much as performance, and has no problem selling his work. Seems like his prices are obviously correct.



-Cliff
 
you are a wise man Cliff. =) The man saying this is Phill himself. Obviously he isn't gonna tell me all his secrets =)
 
Cliff Stamp said:
You do not see the same arguements against other makers and they could be used just as readily. He makes a knife designed to work, seems to not care about finish as much as performance, and has no problem selling his work. Seems like his prices are obviously correct.-Cliff
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Cliff,

People buy the maker as much as the knife. You may not, many, many do.

The man(P.H.) generates the product and the price more than his work. I can tell you, for swords, I cannot compete with his work, because it is not in traditional furniture, and would be disqualified from competition. I WOULD like to compete with it, because I already KNOW from first hand experience that the work of Howard Clark holds up amazingly well. This is compared to nihonto costing between $6,000 and $10,000, shinsa quality work.

That said, the people that buy the work BUY P.H. His legend is not removed from it, as opposed to say Howard Clark.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Jack does Phil have an active email? What is his current wait list time? Does he have a small utility model?

-Cliff
 
I have handled several Hartsfield knives. They are well made, but not my kind of knife. I don't know the prices directly from him, but the second market prices I saw are way too high IMO. They are extremly simple. The grinds are good and precise, the finish uniform but extremly coarse. It strikes me as the kind of knife an experienced maker can make in a couple of hours, once he knows what he's doing.
I can't speak of their performance. The edge is sharp but I obviously didn't use them, as they were not mine.
 
Cliff,

The last known email I know of Phill is phillhartsfield@mindspring.com. Now whether he actually answers his email, i do not know. I have never emailed him as I have also just used the phoine. Just give him a call (949) 722 - 9792 or (714) 636 - 7633. I think the first number goes to a cell phone. Atleast he's always answered it when i've called. Either number works i'm sure. He has a small utility knife called a kozuka, but can make you basically whatever your mind can come up with so long as he sees no built in weaknesses in the design. If he got the $$ he can accomodate you with all your wishes. Current wait time I believe is 1 year. Last time I spoke with him I believe he said he is not currently taking any orders as to try to fill the ones he has on backorder as soon as possible. But hey! he is a knifemaker and a very nice man, so anything is possible. Right after he told me he wasn't taking any blade orders I asked him if it was too late to get a katana started and he said he'd make me one no problem. Perhaps it's because i've known him for awhile and FINALLY thought "It's about damn time you ordered a blade son!" is why he had no problem is making me one. I think the smallest knife if I remember being a little one starts around $450 and up...but don't quote me on it. Last time I was at his shop he said the prices were going up. that was atleast 6 months ago. Thanks.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
He makes a knife designed to work, seems to not care about finish as much as performance, and has no problem selling his work. Seems like his prices are obviously correct.
-Cliff
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Cliff, as you so often do, you nailed it! He does not care about finish and he sells all he can make at prices that make many other makers drool.

Instead of studying his marketing they spend their time being pissed. They need to stand around his tables listening and studying the way he works. Forget his knives, study the man.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Cliff, as you so often do, you nailed it! He does not care about finish and he sells all he can make at prices that make many other makers drool.

Instead of studying his marketing they spend their time being pissed. They need to stand around his tables listening and studying the way he works. Forget his knives, study the man.
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A.G.,

I'll agree with you that Phill does great marketing, like many makers who do work that galvanizes the community(Ed Fowler, AngelSword(Daniel Watson), many tactical makers....) but that is only one part of it.

Makers like Daniel Winkler, Howard Clark, Ed Schempp......these guys sell everything they make too....the work is not shrouded in secrecy(the L6 bainite recipe is not available from Clark, but he is not averse to questions, I've found), they are "also" great guys, and as Cliff aluded to above, there is no strong negative feelings on BladeForums towards them. Why is that?

My personal lack of enthusiasm is for Scandi chisel ground blades with a rough finish at high prices, it's like 1/2 of a knife. I have handled about 10 or so Hartsfield knives owned by friends and did not love the ergonomics, the knives did not fit my hand comfortably.

I have spoken with Phil briefly at, I believe, the first Plaza Cutlery show. He was very pleasant.

PLCustom, you have shown yourself to be a shill....you are NOT to be trusted IMO, if you had any honor at all, you would have presented that you were a big fan/friend of Phill from the start. Keep it up, you'll find yourself on the PT list.

Best Regards to A.G., no regards for FUCustom,

STeven Garsson
 
so much hostility STeven. Perhaps I started this post acting like some guy that didn't know Phill. Oh well. Atleast I have heard yours and other people's opinions about him. I got the job done. You don't trust me..awesome. No big deal. As for what I say about his knives...well others can be the judge of that. They don't like his stuff, then they don't. You don't like his stuff, that is obvious. So now I know who to stay away from in the forums. Thank you Sir with Best Regards.
 
For me it's not about not liking him or his knives. I don't know him and I do like his knives. It is just that they don't offer what I am looking for.
 
then if he doesn't have what you want, then there are plenty of other makers out there that i'm sure offer what you want Sir. :) Not everyone likes Phill's blades. Not everyone likes RJ Martin's blades. It just a known fact that every maker cannot be loved by everyone. What someone sees as a piece of junk, drugged by car finish, others admire for other reasons.
 
plcustom said:
then if he doesn't have what you want, then there are plenty of other makers out there that i'm sure offer what you want Sir. :) Not everyone likes Phill's blades. Not everyone likes RJ Martin's blades. It just a known fact that every maker cannot be loved by everyone. What someone sees as a piece of junk, drugged by car finish, others admire for other reasons.
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I agree totally, but when I see a thread about a maker's knives I will give my opinion of those knives. I will comment about the things I like and the things I dislike. That's the way it's going to be, so don't expect anything else.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I agree totally, but when I see a thread about a maker's knives I will give my opinion of those knives. I will comment about the things I like and the things I dislike. That's the way it's going to be, so don't expect anything else.
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As it should be!! Phill seems to have found a niche that works for him, like it or not. Would make it hard to downgrade his work. Just pass on it if not your bag. Nit-picking his work doesn't seem to be productive.


- Joe
 
everyone is entitled to say whatever the heck they want in here! Otherwise it wouldn't be a discussion! Likes, dislikes bring it on! everything helps.
 
jack76, could you share who the maker of those beautiful knives are? what specs, what blade material?

if you don't mind, could you email me as to how I can get in touch with the maker, and the prices too?

my email is: jameskoji@gmail.com

btw, with all this discussion, I am even more intrigued by Phill's knives...if he will still take orders, I'm pretty sure I'll order one.
 
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