Phill Hartsfield's knives?

M

MrG

Joined
Aug 11, 1999
Messages
389
So...I've been drooling over Mr. Hartsfield's catalog for the last year, deciding if I should order or not. Two year wait, and very expensive. But, damn, the knives are SWEET! To order, you need to put down 10%...should I? I'm thinking of getting one of his Kwaikens...does anyone out there have any of his knives? Do they like it? And, more importantly, was it worth it? I already have two knives on order with James Piorek, and one with RJ Martin; do I really need to order one from Phill???
Help me people!!!
 
x

[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 09 December 1999).]
 
My personal opinion would be to go with RJ Martin. His knives are finished much nicer than Hartsfield's and the prices are much lower. Several dealers usually have several Martins in stock. I would try Les Robertson or Arizona Custom Knives. In the end though, it is whatever makes you happy. If you really want the Hartsfield, then that is what you should get. By the way, there is a newer maker named Gary Bradburn that makes some really nice Japanese styled for the price. His knives are not as finely finished as RJ's, but they are almost as sharp and very tough, good using knives, and his prices are extremely reasonable. Email me for his contact info if you are interested.
 
Ditto the above posts...Randys knives are CLEAN.

You may also want to consider Don Fogg. He makes some very nice Japanese influenced knives and swords. He makes some nice user grade tantos for very reasonable prices ($275 with sheath last time i checked). The one i have has a "traditional" point instead of the "armor piercing" point. If find the traditional point very usefull. It is cord wrapped with a brown under and black over, not as nice looking as ray skin but very nice. They come with a nice temper line and are as sharp as anything ive felt.

I hope to do a review and post it with pic soon on the review forum. If anyone wants a pic sooner, email me.
 
While I have heard fit and finish is higher on R. J. Martin's knives over Hartsfields several times, I have note heard any mention of functionality. Is there a performance difference?

-Cliff
 
I have one of those annuals on knives, Gun Digest I believe, and they had articles on a number of knife makers including Hartsfield. It was mentioned that most seem to think that his knives aren't as well finished as others and that a lot of his customers had purchased his knives for the way they function. The author of the article noted that cutting rope was a popular demo for many makers, but he was surprised that the Hartsfield knife cut rope with almost no sense of force being used. There was also a picture of a demo that I've never heard of and is the most impressive that I've seen, where a sheet of newspaper is rolled into a tube, placed on end, and is cleanly sliced at an angle. The author noted that some can make several cuts before it tips over. An amazing demo for a larger knive with a chisel type edge.

His are one of the few 'tanto' blades that I'd be interested in, not that I could ever afford one though.
 
I have some Hartsfields and have sold many of his pieces, expensive and well worth the price. Grinds are clean, spartan finish on blade (maybe using a worn 60 grit belt), hold their edge forever and are incredibly sharp. If you do not mind the wait and price.
I have a few in stock for sale with immediate delivery.
Dave Ellis, ABS, M.S. http://www.mastersmith.com

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Johno, I tried the cutting you describe above for awhile yesterday. While I didn't have any newspapers on hand I did have some magazines with similar paper but just a bit smaller. I didn't find it overly difficult to do but there is a huge amount of variance in the method used. With a steep angle of attack, a drawing motion on the cut, and a smooth follow through, I could get a clean cut with most knives that had a decent edge. When I used some of the thinner edge knives like a utility hunter by Phil Wilson I could not really notice that the paper was there.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 07 October 1999).]
 
RJ Martin's edge redefined sharp for me.

As I make a living with knives this is not something taken lightly. Actually had one of the kitchen staff say it was *too* sharp.

When RJ Martin says "scary sharp" he's very serious.

-Michael

 
CLiff,

You really ought to get a Kozuka and try one of RJ's blades. It is a fabulous small utility knife. The A-2 takes a phenomenal edge and, frankly, the chisel grind is not noticeable when I am using it to clean game or in the kitchen. I have the straight spined model with the continuous curve you see on his site. It is extremely easy to maintain the razor edge also.

An example I can give you (which I shared with RJ) is that I was breasting out several Canada Geese earlier this fall. I started with a Randall Model 8 which had been sharpened to a hair popping edge. I stopped with the triangle edge of the white Sharpmaker stones when sharpening the Model 8. I cleaned the first 3 birds with this knife and then, just for the sake of experimentation, switched to the Kozuka, my normal neck knife for the last 2. I could not believe the difference. The Kozuka cut so well on the flesh of the birds that it seemed that as you touched them the breast fell away from the knife blade. I had stopped with the same triangular edge of the Sharpmaker white stones when I had last sharpened the Kozuka also. I am unsure whether the geometry of the knife blades or the A-2 versus O-1 made the difference here. I just know that for light utility and meat cutting the Kozuka is a great knife.

I realize that this is mostly subjective so I would not mind seeing you evaluate one of RJ's A-2 utility knives if you get the chance.

Waldo

[This message has been edited by Waldo (edited 07 October 1999).]
 
Thanks for the details Waldo. Does the grind on R. J.'s blades go right to the edge or is there a secondary bevel?

-Cliff
 
Cliff, The chisel edge blades go right to the edge without a secondary bevel. Not sure about his conventional ground knives.

G2

------------------
I don't have a solution,

<B><I>but</B></I> I admire your problem.

www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/7306/blades.html


 
No wonder they cut so well then, the lack of a secondary bevel would make the edge very thin in comparison, as well the chisel grind.

-Cliff
 
Hartsfields knives are way over priced. If you ever wanted to sell the knife you would find that out very quickly. Martin is the way to go IMHO.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
Phil is an excellent salesman. People line up to buy his knives.

However, in the aftermarket, as a individual who makes his living doing this, I will tell you that his knives are among the slowest to leave my table.

Now, I will also say that Only RJ Martin sells more of his knives than I do. The reason I sell his knives is because for the money, the edge and the fit and finish of the knife, they are superior to a Hartsfield knife in every area.

Phil has told people (no I am not making this up). That part of the reason his knives are so slow to sell in the aftermarket is because when he builds the knife/sword he puts part of the customers soul in each blade. The difficult arises when selling the knife is that two souls cannot occupy the same blade.

It's not so amazing that Phil would say that, it's more amazing that people belive that.

The finish that Phil puts on his knife is refered to in the knife community as a DBC finish (Drug Behind Car). It is in fact a 80 grit finish.

There is no doubt that Phil's knives cut. However, if you remove the hype, remove the religious overtones, understand the the material covering the handle is boot laces (RJ Martin uses Same (ray skin), the sheaths are lined with aluminum and that you have a difficult time re selling the knife for even close to what you payed for it. It is obvious you are now paying for the name, and what you and others feel is the prestige of owning a Hartsfield knife.

However, for those who want the best quality for the money, RJ Martin is the best maker of Japanese Tactical Fixed blades in the world.
Piorek, has great carry systems (the best in the world), however, his knives are more like Hartsfield's. Mostly because he bought between 20 and 30 of them from Phil before he started making. This fact was brought to light by Phil in one of the last issues of the now defunct Fighting Knives.

Each of these makers has a loyal following, each deservedly so. However, in the after market only one will get you your money back. The maker is RJ Martin.

Les
 
Hey Les, thanks for the info! I had heard about Mr. Hartsfield putting the customer's 'soul' into every blade he makes, and I must admit, it's a catchy gimmick. I must admit that the similarities between James Piorek's blades and Mr. Hartsfield are pretty close; even their catalogs are similar!
The thing is...it's hard to make a decision when you can't HOLD the knife in your hand. I wish that there was a way where you can actually USE the knife before you buy it, but, then, life would be too easy now, wouldn't it?
I'm not worried about what the knife is going to be worth years from now, as I am probably going to give it to one of my kids. I am more concerned with getting a high quality tool, built to last. In other words, a tool I can trust my life with. I want to know that it will cut when I want it to...basically.
Phill Hartsfield's ads say that his knives are meant to be used...but then they cost millions of bucks(that's what it seems like to me, anyway)
I have never read anything bad about RJ Martin's knives; I have a Handiman on order, now I think I'll order a Kozuka.

Thanks for the info, everybody!
 
Guys: Thanks for your kind words about my knives. I have never done a side by side comparison of a Hartsfield with one of my blades. However, I have duplicated the rolled up newspaper test on many occasions. In fact, I demonstrated it as part of my sharpening seminar at the 1998 Ashoken Knifemaking Seminar. It takes a very sharp knife to perform, no doubt about it. And, there is some technique involved, as with rope cutting. If you can cut 4" off the bottom of a free-hanging, brand new, 1" hemp rope in one slice, you've got a sharp knife. Knotting the end is not allowed, nor is cutting 3 feet from the end-it's just too easy. And, you need to be able to do it several times.
I used to have a 1" rope hanging in my shop, and, I got so that I could swipe at the rope as I walked by, and it would cut cleanly.
As to edges lasting "forever", forget it. They ALL dull eventually. I know, I've sharpened them all-Hartsfields, Pioreks, and mine.
As to what knife to buy, it's really up to the guy spending the money.

Stay Sharp,

RJ Martin
 
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