Phill Hartsfield's knives?

Thanks for the information. I am not really concerned about the collectable aspect, so resale value doesn't matter. The finish isn't of any importance either as in time they all come to resemble the same thing. I am just looking for functionality.

R.J., how do you sharpen your knives that don't have a secondary bevel? Do you work on the primary bevel and then repolish, or just lightly work on the edge alone?

-Cliff
 
On the newspaper tube test .... it seems like it can either be a trick, like they show someone cutting candles with a sword in the movies, or a decent test of a knife. I don't think that clay coated magazine paper would be as difficult as newspaper, and that if one uses only a couple of layers of newspaper, in a tube maybe 3in to 4in in diameter, and can slice it without knocking it over, it still sounds like an impressive test. I have a Swedish 7in 'Leukko' blade that is supposed to be Rc60, it does have a thin edge and cuts like a razor, so I'll try it out too.
 
Cliff: I have a way of sharpening that seems to create an almost microscopic "appleseed" edge on the ground side only. If you don't work on the bevel itself, you'll have a secondary edge almost immediately. You really need to work the main bevel itself.

RJ Martin
 
On the newspaper test .... using a Swedish 1/8in thick 7in carbon steel blade that has what is evidently a typical grind, I found that the easiest to cut were the clay coated sheets that many ads are printed on, in smaller diameters of about 2 to 3 inches, of a couple of layers. It was harder to cut the newsprint paper in larger diameters of about 4 inches, of about 1 1/2 layers, as I had to strop a few times on leather to get a clean cut.
 
Thanks for the info R. J., I have done this myself with some knives, but my method will marr the finish on the bevel heavily (I just use the same method as if I was sharpening a secondary bevel).

What materials/methods would you suggest to someone who wanted to sharpen one of your blades?

-Cliff
 
Les;
I have cut with both the Hartsfield # 35 Kozuka, and the R.J Martin Knife purchased from you. To save time I use double braid dacron yacht braid 3/8" or larger. No blade will hold up to this type of material, for many cuts. R.J`s knife will make about 30 cuts before not being able to bite any longer.
The Hartsfield will make it in to the high 20`s. Penetration in a phone book are pretty much equal also. One item that has been brought to my attention is that Hartsfield,will not service a knife that has been sold to a second owner for his usual nominal fee.Possibly you could tell us what R.J`s policy is. Hartsfield does make the edge hard, and uses a soft spine. I believe this might help cutting in the longer blades, because of the tension it puts on the edge.On the Kozuka type knife I do not think a differentially hardended blade would be noticeable.The Handy man in D-2 will cut as well as the A-2 Kozuka.

Floyd
 
Floyd,

It is interesting that you bring up the point about service after the sale. I had two different customers tell me the same thing. THey had purchased Phil's knives in the aftermarket and Phil would not work on them.

This is the first maker I have ever heard of that will not service a knife that he/she made.

The only reason for this can be, he is punishing people for not buying the knife directly from him.

The two individual's that told me their stories have since gotten rid of every Hartsifeld they own and will never buy another one.

So now you can add to a long list of why you should not buy a Hartsfield the fact he does not stand behind his work. Again, I found that absolutely amazing.

With this in mind, I will now be inclined to never buy or take a Hartsfield in trade. I will also have to inform all those who are interested in his work, his "unique" policy of not standing behind his work.

Phil if youre out there, you need to address this issue. Surely, these 3 people misunderstood what your policy is.

Can you really be the only custom knife maker in the US that does not stand behind their work???

To my knowledge RJ Martin cares not who you purchased your knife from. His name is on the blade, he stands behind it 100%.

Why would a knife maker want a bad example of their work for others to see.

I know several knife makers who try and buy their old knives and then throw them away.

So to wrap up, Hartsfield knives, poor craftsmanship, over priced, poor materials for both handle and sheath, virutally impossible to get your most of your money back on a knife in the after market. Now we find out if you do buy a knife on the aftermarket, Phil will not honor his work and clean up the knife.

So who started this thread about wanting to buy a Hartsfield. I hope you have your answer.

Les
 
Again- Don Fogg should also be considered. The one i have has an excellent temperline, excellent fit/finish etc... I havent had a chance to cut alot with it yet, but will soon.

I do prefer RJ's rayskin/cord work. The Fogg is cord/cord but im sure he can do rayskin as well.

I really like RJ's work but i think anyone that does not AT LEAST consider a Fogg is really mising out.

 
Don's stuff is super. My good friend and sword nut show partner was all psyched when Don was going to be at a local show. Unfortunately he didn't bring any swords. He said he doesn't make too many of them any more but we both loved the knives. I agree with you that anybody seriously shopping should think of Don.
 
Guys: To answer your questions on refinishing and sharpening.
For the original owner, it's lifetime resharpening and refinishing, for free (owner pays shipping both ways) Although my warranty is for the original owner, generally I don't even ask. Sometimes, I might ask a second owner for $10 or so, depending on the condition of the blade.
Cliff for sharpening, my advice is this:
Take a piece of 1/2" wide adhesive tape and cover the top of the grind line with it, the length of the blade. When you lay the knife down on the stone, the adhesive tape will keep the scuffing you refer to down to a minimum. It will also increase the bevel angle very slightly, perhaps one degree, and ensure that you work right down on the very edge. You want to try for very light contact on the tape, or you may peel it off by accident.
I like the fine or ultra fine Spyderco stones. I have about $300 (OUCH!) of Japanese waterstones, and, I can't see any real difference/advantage. My knives tend to gouge the waterstones pretty easily (satisfied grin
smile.gif
)
BTW, I sharpen only the ground side, maybe 8 good strokes, then maybe make one really light pass on the flat side, at a VERY low angle to the stone.
Stropping on an old belt is key. No, I don't sharpen this way in my shop, but, I just talked with two customers tonight who have followed my advice and get good results with the above method.
One last thing-if the knife has a Tanto point, sharpen the point separately from the main bevel-you have to pick the butt end of the knife really high off the stone to get the angle right, and most people cannot perform the combined motion consistently.

Hope this helps--

Stay Sharp,
RJ Martin
 
Tom,

I dont hate Harstfield. Quite the opposite. I admire him. Look what he has done with a piece of A-2, some boot laces, epoxy and a 40 grit finish. Who else could get $650 and up for that.

Whatever else he is, he is truly a master salesman and marketer.

Sadly, the same cannot be said for his customer service it would seem.

Matt,

Yes, Don Fogg, excellent. But cost and time (mostly time).

Les

 
Les, as for makers not standing behind their work, I could not agree more. The warrenty / policy / whatever should be on the blade and not attached to the person or date.

R.J., thanks for the info.

-Cliff
 
Don Fogg makes awesome knives! I have one that I designed. Don is a super guy, too. I live about 45 min from him and have been to ohis shop several times. He is always very friendly and forthcoming with information.

I was one of Hartsfield's rejected aftermarket buyers, sold it right after that. He wouldn't even sharpen it when I offered to pay him. "I don't touch my knives if you don't buy them from me"

RJ's are super nice, he is a perfectionist with both the fit/finish and edge sharpness.

I have a Wally Hayes Kwaiken that is similar to the type knives we have been talking about. It was priced extremely low and is the best buy I have (at least in this style). He used edge hardened 1/4" O1 on mine. It is a beast. You cannot beat it for the money, though.

JSP is great for carry systems, and his knives range from very good to incredible, but his attitude really turns me off. He will not share any info with other people, as if they will only copy him. Funny that he would be so worried about that after that nice Hartsfield collection he had before starting his work.

I have not done enough head to head comparos to say which ones of these are the best. I believe any of the knives I mentioned are very good knives and one should buy what they prefer.

 
bart,

I'm surprised to hear you say James Piorek doesn't share any information....exactly what information are you referring to?

I only ask because I recently spoke to him on the phone and he was quite an honest and open guy who seemd to thoroughly enjoy talking about his work. At the time I called him we were complete strangers , but we managed to carry on a conversation for approx. 45 minutes.

In no way did he indicate any concern for guarding his trade secrets. But who knows, maybe he was in a bad mood when you spoke to him.....
 
In all honesty, I've heard those stories about James Piorek as well. Including a first-hand story of a knifemaker who was at James' table handling his knives, but as soon as James realized the guy was a knifemaker he took his knife OUT OF THE GUY'S HANDS and refused to talk anymore. From my outside perspective, he seems to have a well-known reputation for doing these kinds of things, which is especially frowned upon since knifemakers tend to be pretty open with information as a whole. Again, pretty ironic considering the Phil Hartsfield collection stories! I've only once talked with James in person, he's a good salesman.

Joe
 
When I started making Kydex sheaths, I thought James did some nice work and called him about it. He would not tell me how to glue leather to Kydex, it was proprietary. Also, he would not tell me where he got any of his exotic skins. Ask RJ about his "patented" static cord. The guy can be real anal. If you offer to fork over $1000 for one of his knives, he is a lot more open though.

-Bart
 
Joe & bart:

WOW! Pretty informative stuff... thanks for sharing. Seems like some makers do not like to share the 411... any more info on Piorek's relationship with Hartsfield? It's kinda intriguing...

------------------
Attila
 
Hey, Bart, why don´t you tell us more about the "patented" static cord story? That made me curious.

Ivan Campos
 
RJ started making his Wasabi (?spelling) and put a static cord on the sheaths. Since I like JSP stuff but hate the wait I got real interested in getting the money together. Well not long after the static cord stuff hit his website he apparently got a unfriendly call from JSP that the knotted cord throught the end of the sheath was his exclusive design and RJ being a man of honor changed it. I don't yet own a RJ knive but I will someday just have to convince my wife I need yet another oriental style tactical blade.
 
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