Interesting. So in summation; Survive is broke as many have alluded to, after having spent all of its various preorder, pre sales, pre this and ugly that on equipment, a now defunct building, (Insurance payout, how auspicious) 100k there I believe, and burned through all of its operating cash with never a thought to put a reserve fund in place for processing the inevitable slew of refunds that would have to come from stringing its customer base along for 2-3+ years on things that are always just around the corner, and have now been forced to secured creditors. Because no bank will touch them for good reason. And spare me the 'Were a young company' line. Survive isn't young, just incompetent. You have the gall to tell people who laid money down years ago for this scheme to 'chill out a bit'? They've processed 100k in refunds? Aw gee, Boo hoo. Is that the customers fault? They just need to chill out and keep accepting the lies like good little sheep? Survive has been afforded umpteen million free passes on this forum that a quick perusal of the GBU will show is generally not extended to others that have been in the same position. Slow and no refunds= Banned, Comms blackout= Banned, No redress of issues=Banned Of significant note is how the Owner never addresses anything himself. Always (always being a relative term meaning nearly never) the other half addressing issues knowing full well people will generally not take her to task the same as they will him, and now an attorney who isn't retained by SK. Maybe they will convince Papa Smurf to speak for them next. 1&2. Hopefully you are made whole at some point. I hate to see hardworking people lose that kind of money. 3. Apparently creditors can be heard over the shop equipment and numerous refund requests. Worth noting. 4. I certainly hope you verified that yourself rather than relying on Guy's 'Word'. 5&6. I do not take people like that seriously, although in every lie there is almost always some truth. 7. Funny how it takes the whole shop for this 'family emergency'. Good thing they were there so the fire department didn't have to work. 8. Keep changing the verbiage though, just shows intent, and their continuing incompetence. 9. 4 weeks and counting is addressing the 'issue'. The 'issue' is that they have no money to give you and first have to sell something to the next poor guy in line to pay you back. How long do you think that cycle can continue? Sooner or later refund requests will exceed sales and then that is the end of the line. 10. Boo.Hoo. How about the detriment of the customer that could have found something else to do besides being used as an interest free loan? Most people have to work for a living, there are a lot of people that got in on the initial hype and have 1k+ orders with nothing to show for it except the usual lip service. Delayed refunds because you spent all the money already is an unacceptable business practice. People should be directing complaints to the Idaho state AG so they can suspend their business license. 11. I believe the technical term is piss poor planning produces piss poor results. Which is why people with no experience running a large money operation belong being in charge of running said large money operation. 12. Who in their right mind accepts a 'significant amount' of sub par contracted materials? 13. The cash flow only gets improved by more sales to refund the prior sales with little to zero left over to cover current running costs and simultaneously fill in the hole. It is an unsustainable loop that only leads in one direction, the downward spiral. 14. All the people currently being refunded should thank you then since their refunds likely will come from your loan. Which is no one because as per Survive policy, they take whatever money they can find and throw it in the hole they have dug while Still continuing to dig. If your waiting around on Survive to refund you and want half a chance at receiving anything you may wish to be a bit more proactive in seeking your due refund. Paypal has a 180 day limit on the ability to file a claim, however, when enough claims post they will freeze their account and force them to provide refunds to any outstanding disputes no matter the age of the dispute and then may or may not allow them to continue processing payments at their discretion after all accounts are settled. Your credit card company, if you used one, may be able to help you after that. Some of them have a pretty favorable to the consumer resolution process. There are a ton of gifted makers on this forum that can build you a knife without stringing you along for years with lies, and make no mistake they are lies. Even the former die hard fans are, grudgingly, seeing the light.