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POOR customer service

Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Ramojung, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. Standard78

    Standard78 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 25, 2015
    Well that's just mean!

    I really have no skin in this game so you won't get any satisfaction from me bubba.
     
  2. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    I think and hope that no one and I mean NO ONE even attempts to deny that there are some serious issues with Survive! constantly and habitually falling behind as the lag times in every facet seem to be going from worse to worst. The ray of hope which I saw and was rooting for was their big news announcement of teaming up with a bigger operator to get the S!K line rolling which I had expected to be the rising tide which they seemingly needed very badly.

    I have come to understand and also to respect the opinion of those who are on the side of the opposition to Survive!'s business model because even if the discussion gets too highly charged with unfortunate vitriol as emotions run high, none of the detractors had actually wished upon good and hard working folks to lose their hard earned monies invested in Survive! preorders. At times we fight like cats and dogs within this Community but for most parts we do understand that it's a Community of people who enjoy a common hobby even if disagree at times on brands, design, material, business models, etc...

    Once in a while this Community gets attacked by an invasive species such as First Alchemy and may of his alleged aliases. What is most impressive is the fact that when such attacks happen but the opponents and proponents by and large recognize that there has been an attack, pull ranks and deal with the unwelcome intruder. The agenda of marshaling a proverbial run on the bank to drive a dagger into Survive!'s seemingly faintly beating heart is not only a grotesquely promiscuous practice but it is also an asinine anti Community act of hostility. Glad that it was dealt with properly and swiftly by @bhyde
     
  3. TommyG19

    TommyG19 Gold Member Gold Member

    54
    Feb 3, 2007
    I've been pretty frustrated at times. I do think there is some writing on the wall here. No need to fan those flames. Mostly, I just want my stinking knives! Especially the 7/7. It was going to be my large camp knife. Now what? Maybe the Junglas II? Stick with ESEE 6? Fiddleback Forge production Camp Knife? Bravo 1.5? Just use my old hatchet? Try a Becker?

    This experience has kind of soured me on the custom/small shop knife market. I'd love to have the 4.1 I've been waiting on, but there are a million great companion knives available, some even already in my possession!

    I've been trying to be a Survivor with you all for two years now, but Survive! has never sent me a knife I ordered. I'd still rather have my knives than my cash, and really don't think that a request for cash at this point would be honored. Anyway, let's just ride this thing out, come what may.
     
    ATJ999, musicisevil, sryt95 and 2 others like this.
  4. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012

    ^ And this is why I will try to watch more from the sidelines until this thing works itself out, lest I inadvertently influence anyone that's not up to speed. Thanks for your thoughts Mat, they are helpful.

    @XtianAus thanks brother, and cheers.
     
  5. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    193
    Nov 12, 2005
    I've generally kept in the shadows on Bladeforums because I'm busy managing a law practice and with family matters, but wanted to get the below info out to everyone as quickly as possible:
    1. I previously loaned the company a significant sum of money in the 4th quarter of last year as the refund request threads were starting to come in--knowing full well that my funds would likely be used to pay for the posters' refunds. I made the loan because I believed in the company, loved the delta 3v protocol after using another maker's knives, and wanted to see the company succeed.
    2. I haven’t been paid back and have recently extended my loan, and I’ve therefore got significant “skin in the game.” As far as I know, I am the only secured creditor of Survive.
    3. After reading the BF customer service and refund threads today, I emailed Guy to get to the bottom of what was going on, and I spoke to him for about 25 minutes.
    4. Yes, an investigation as to the cause of the fire was conducted, but it was just routine to Guy's knowledge.
    5. Silver Eagle is the same fellow that was previously slandering the company and was banned. Silver Eagle, feel free to call me at my office number at your convenience: [edited to remove phone number and name--I haven't received any calls...if anyone would like to get in touch with me, please PM me, and I'd be happy to jump on a call]. I will edit this post to remove my office number within 24 hours. Silver Eagle, if you have evidence or details you would like to provide me, as a creditor of the company I would certainly be very interested to talk to you.
    6. At this point, I (and Survive) believe Silver Eagle's accusations are without merit.
    7. Guy is back in the shop working on getting knives out, and they get a non-nominal number of knives out on average every day. Guy told me a number, but I don't feel comfortable releasing that number publicly.
    8. Survive will be removing the 90-day language on their website.
    9. Survive is trying to address the refund situation as quickly as possible.
    10. Survive has absorbed over $100K in refunds to the detriment of their business.
    11. The preorder money was used to purchase significant equipment and materials and pay for various manufacturing processes, and the company is now "asset rich and cash poor." This is one of the reasons the recent refund requests have been delayed. They have only been delayed, and Guy anticipated getting the refund situation addressed in the near future.
    12. A significant portion of the prior materials were not up to spec (they were substantively below spec), and Survive had to eat this expense (i.e., not even "Ugly Betty" quality). Guy discussed specific suppliers/vendors and percentages, but I don't feel comfortable releasing that information publicly as I don't want to jeopardize the company's relationship with its vendors (past, current or potential). This spoilage has resulted in considerable delay.
    13. My general feeling after talking to Guy is that the spate of refund requests has also been problematic and that it has resulted in a "run" on available cash flow, and that if folks would just stay the course and chill out a bit, the cash flow situation would improve and the company would be better able to hit its operational targets.
    14. Like I said previously, I've put my money where my mouth is, and I've extended Survive's loan rather than accelerating it for "insecurity" (as you may or may not know, secured creditors typically can accelerate a loan because of a variety of conditions constituting "insecurity"). If I had the available cash, I would loan additional funds the Survive, but I'm not in the position to do so now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  6. chiral.grolim

    chiral.grolim Universal Kydex Sheath Extension Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 2, 2008
    Thank you for sharing with us.

    If you are able to get in touch with Guy or Ellie again in the near future, would you please let them know that a production-update Instagram-post would be much appreciated by their customers :thumbsup:
     
  7. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    ^ Thanks for sharing this information.
    Having said that, apart from the items relating to your personal involvement as a creditor of the company, I feel that Survive could/should have explained some of this themselves to put at least those customers that visit the forum in the loop as to where things stand.
    I hope that as many people as possible see this and for a bright future for Survive!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Brian77 and Hard Knocks like this.
  8. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    193
    Nov 12, 2005
    Yes, I sure will.
     
    Brian77, Oyster and chiral.grolim like this.
  9. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    193
    Nov 12, 2005
    I agree. There are definitely some business best practices that I believe Survive should institute ASAP, and greater transparency is one of them.
     
    Benson X, Brian77, dragfree and 4 others like this.
  10. Dutchtracker

    Dutchtracker Gold Member Gold Member

    303
    Nov 26, 2012
    Thank you for sharing this.
     
  11. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Lance thank you again you for sharing what must have been a very conflicting and uneasy chunk of information which you had previously had to keep onto yourself.

    As Mark Twain had quoted, "if you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything". Guy may want to stick as closely as possible to this sage advice from here on out.
     
    palonej, Brian77 and Oyster like this.
  12. winger51

    winger51

    296
    Feb 3, 2010
    Lancelot: for an "attorney" you are without any merit, as no attorney that I have ever dealt with , would make it public knowledge as to their profession regarding the jeopardy of a failing business, and itemizing facts of semi disclosure regarding same business, nor calling out an individual on an internet forum, unless of course you would like to share with us your professional credentials and background and present state of of your law firm as to location and standing. Reference to the your associated state board of law examiners would be helpful.
     
  13. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    Thanks for providing this information.

    There is a lot of information there, and IMHO almost none of it reflects well on S!K. I started to write a long and detailed post, but I will leave that to others.

    I will make a few comments. First, a post like this should have come from Guy or Ellie. That it did not speaks volumes about their professionalism and integrity. I will also say that the lack of business acumen that got them to this point does not bode well for their future success. Finally, knowing all this and understanding what a perilous position the company is in, Guy and Ellie keep on selling items that they don't have the money to make and lying about lead times. I find this to be very problematic.

    Lance, thanks for posting this information. I for one greatly appreciate your willingness to share this information.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Brian77 likes this.
  14. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Winger: Lance has his number right there. Why don't you Google him and find out? I have done so since Lance and I had some private conversations earlier on and I was easily able to verify and check out his credentials.

    However, you may not see this post since you may still have me on ignore. That other individual whom you have referred to, is a piece of TURD!
     
  15. rexromic

    rexromic Gold Member Gold Member

    May 28, 2011
    Still waiting for my 5.1 ,but as much as a hate not having my knife yet,I will patiently wait till it arrives.
    In the meantime Fallkniven and Busse are being used and abused .
     
  16. LadyEarth

    LadyEarth

    846
    Nov 24, 2012
    Maybe you could, oh I dont know, like call the number he listed and find out for yourself maybe? It makes no sense to attempt at slandering him in such a public manner when the informations you wanted is easily accessed by that phone number he listed.

    Have fun calling him and getting the info you wanted in a more respectful and responsible fashion.
     
    Brian77 likes this.
  17. winger51

    winger51

    296
    Feb 3, 2010
    Have fun calling him and getting the info you wanted in a more respectful and responsible fashion.[/QUOTE]\\

    Maybe a phone call would ascertain his credentials? Seriously? Think about that....or not. List your phone number and be sure to tell us you are the Assistant to the District Attorney in whatever state you so select.....
     
  18. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    winger51, give it a rest Man!

    P.S. someone tell him on my behalf to give it a rest so that folks who actually have substantial skin in the game don't shy away from coming forth to share their experiences. I for one have checked out Lance and I attest that he is legitimate. Survive! customers already having a tough time dealing with this FUBAR mess and don't need people like Winger pontificating.

    I agree with NC that Guy / Ellie are being patently unprofessional and I wish someone had the ability to buy Guy out and get this business back onto the right and true track!
     
  19. lancelot

    lancelot Gold Member Gold Member

    193
    Nov 12, 2005
    I practice law at a firm in Salt Lake City. We primarily represent public companies, although we do represent private individuals and companies as well. I am well versed in the Utah Rules of Professional Conduct and have not violated any attorney client privilege as I am creditor of the company and not its counsel, and in any event, Guy thought it would be a good idea for me to share my thoughts on our call with the BF community.

    Nrrockclimb, I'm getting my kids in bed, so I'll respond more fully to you later this evening. My personal belief is that Guy has been acting ethically--otherwise I wouldn't have loaned him my money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Oyster and Casinostocks like this.
  20. scout1sg

    scout1sg

    925
    Nov 9, 2009
    Also at this time Winger51 he (lancelot) is not acting out as a Lawyer violating any sort of attorney/client confidentiality, he's simply asking the poster if he'd like to share (with him personally) any info relevant to his accusations/info heard from an ex-employee once possibly inside. I believe many of us have a vested interest and any info is better than none.
     
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