Power hammers

You probably wouldn't want to use babbitt... since large roller or ball bearings can be found pretty cheap, used. Babbitt was an expedient way to fit bearings into cast shells, and if you're fabbing a hammer, it would be easier I think to just use bolt-on bearings. Babbitt bearings are also pretty messy unless you have a reservoir underneath to catch oil, like on a lathe.
Other than that, I'm sure the only impediment would be sourcing heavy components at a low enough price. If you have a good scrap yard nearby, this may not be impractical...
javand said:
I'm always tempted to use one as an excuse to build a big steam generator though, be boss as hell to have a steam hammer running on a wood fired boiler, or whatever the correct nomenclature is.
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Me too! Nothing would be cooler than running a real steam hammer with boiler. From what I gather though, as a one man operation, that's a dangerous and/or technically challenging proposition, and includes a lot of secondary considerations such as conditioning the water before piping to boiler- not to mention the archaic technology one would have to master to build or overhaul such a boiler and system.
Yep, that actually sounds like an absolute blast! In a good way, not in a bad/steam explosion/front page of the paper way...
 
The bearings for the shaft would likely be modern pillow blocks, I was thinking more along the lines of the bearing in the connecting rod from the eccentric to the hammer head, and the hammer guides. Bronze would work for those too, but I'd have to buy bronze, and I've already got about 100# of Babbitt and experience pouring and scraping in.
Material wise I've already got a few key bits laying around, and even pricing out new steel, what I'd need to buy wouldn't be that bad.
I might just end up doing this...
 
FWIW, everybody i know that has big old mechanicals, or any machinery with babbit, has, or is wanting to replace it. In most cases this means going with bronze, to avoid changing/modifying/redesigning the existing parts, but if i were building a new hammer, I'd definitely be going with good modern bearings. Especially considering the ubiquity of such, on the surplus market.

It could definitely be done. Even the existing tire hammer design could be scaled up quite a lot if someone had the drive. A modern Bradley is something I've discussed with my Bradley guru, and there's a bunch of different ways it could be done, with some obvious changes.

If you try to imitate a classic mechanical, the trick is figuring out what was done why, and not imitating the things that were done based on convenience of the castings, or the limitations on the availability or cost of certain parts. The most important thing to consider about golden age machinery or anything made in that era though, is this: labor was the absolute least valuable commodity during that era. The wages of a gang of men were the tiniest fraction of the cost of building most things, compared to materials, and components.

It's the opposite now. They could often save money and make something better by simply "putting men on it", now, the smartest move, is find something off the shelf that'll save you a bunch of work.

As someone who's rebuilt a number of hammers for others and myself, and currently has one basketcase hammer project, that I thought would take a month casually, and is now over a year old. Only get into building a hammer for fun. It very likely will never be finished by you, and the more you need it to be, the less likely it will. I know that sounds negative, but doing this one off, will take 20x longer and be 20x more difficult, than doing it the 3rd time. Unless you go off some pre-existing plans like a tirehammer, where you've got a parts list, and instructions, no matter how much you plan, shit wont work out sometimes, and you'll be back to doing a week or two worth of research, then buying something else, waiting for it to ship, etc etc.

If you make it happen, you'll be super happy with the accomplishment, but still probably be wanting to buy a big hammer that was made by someone else lol. It can be done, but I've yet to see a homebuilt mechanical hammer that remotely lives up to the potential of any of the commercially made ones, and very few pneumatic home built hammers that do. Most of the time, when someone learns enough about them to build them that well, they go into business making them, like pretty much all the currently and recently produced air hammers started out. Ironkiss, KZ, Bull/Pheonix, etc., and even then, they all experienced huge refinements from the first iterations, to get the point of being well regarded.
 
Oh believe me I'm very familiar with how that goes.
I'm the sort where I either get right into a project and can hardly be pried away for food and sleep until it's done, or it'll probably never get finished.
Having spent so much time in the museum shop, I've got loads of experience dealing with machines from the Golden age. I've learned a lot about design and execution, and also that sometimes starting over is faster and easier than bringing something back from the grave.
I know full well I'd still want to buy an old factory made hammer at some point, but based on past experience rebuilding similar machines, and building similarly ambitious things from scratch, I'm fairly confident I could pull it off without too much difficulty.

Another aspect that eases my reluctance to design machinery from scratch is the availability of my dad for opinions and assistance. He's a nearly retired Doctor of engineering, and was a manual draftsman years back. He's also worked in shops in his spare time his whole life, so he's experienced with this sort of thing in practice as well as in theory. The assistance of a properly good engineer and someone who can draw up professional blueprints makes these projects a lot easier as well.
Combine that with particularly good access to free/stupid cheap parts, and it's enough to make me seriously consider it.
I'll at least do up a complete design and set of plans, and see how it goes from there
 
As a small forge operation, I like babbit far over bronze replacing. Its easy Diy without much if any machineshop support. If I rebuild a machine that lived decades in a factory, will easily live longer than I will. Nothing gained on maintenance, both still needs alot of regular oiling.
 
I am inclined to agree with that from my experience. There is nothing wrong with Babbitt as long as the right alloy for the application is use, and it's scraped in properly.
I have a feeling it's bad rap comes from machines with worn out babbitt, or replacement bearings that were poorly done.
If it's done well, Babbitt is still the best option for a lot of applications. It wouldn't still be in use in industry otherwise
 
Lieblad said:
As a small forge operation, I like babbit far over bronze replacing. Its easy Diy without much if any machineshop support. If I rebuild a machine that lived decades in a factory, will easily live longer than I will. Nothing gained on maintenance, both still needs alot of regular oiling.
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The thing is, bronze if done properly, is a lifetime replacement.

In the case of the eccentric in my Bradley, it's a pain in the ass either way. Either have the whole thing replaced with bronze, one time, or have to pour babbit, and machine the eccentric to fit the shell every few years. The way this eccentric is designed, it has to be machined to a tight clearance to the shell, not just scraped. If not, you introduce slop and wear on other parts, which ends up require replacement of large bronze bushings, or having to ream out holes in the castings to place bushings.

On the other hand, yeah, if i had a smaller hammer, that i didn't run 8 hours a day balls out, yeah, maybe just stick with the babbit.
 
I don't have a problem with babbit on the 100 LGs'. It's only used in the main bearings and will last for many, many years. I poured the bearings on the old 100 with Sid's help around 15 years ago and no sign of wear at all. The new 100 has seen a fair bit of use in the last 7 years and is better than new, now that it's broke in. Trick is to keep them lubed well.
 
The grade of Babbitt can make a big difference too.
Lead Babbitt and tin Babbitt are two totally different materials, and there is a whole range in between. I'm sure the right babbitt for the application would hold up fairly well, and the wrong one would be destroyed fairly quick.
Nothing at all wrong with bronze, by the sounds of it it's the right material for your application. But everything has its place
 
Geoff Flato said:
The grade of Babbitt can make a big difference too.
Lead Babbitt and tin Babbitt are two totally different materials, and there is a whole range in between. I'm sure the right babbitt for the application would hold up fairly well, and the wrong one would be destroyed fairly quick.
Nothing at all wrong with bronze, by the sounds of it it's the right material for your application. But everything has its place
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I don't disagree, and I'm exaggerating the lifespan a bit of course to make a point.

I don't like doing shit twice, and i know that the way the eccentric on these is, it's particularly hard on the babbit, so i'm going to use bronze. That is all. ;)
 
Its also a lot easier to turn a piece of bronze than scrape a real hard Babbitt for a high contact ratio. Some of the copper bearing Babbitt is HARD

And having torn down a rock crusher to do the same basic job before, I don't blame you one bit for only wanting to do it once
 
There's a FB post being shared for a 100lb LG for sale
Fletcher Mountain Outfitters
$8,500
claimed rebuilt 20 years ago and unused, but in the photo it's outside with tarps nearby so maybe it's in good shape or maybe it's been sitting outside all this time

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=656b1d96f2b1c0561816e5bda3d4c63d&oe=5A26336B
649207258616617
 
12345678910 said:
There's a FB post being shared for a 100lb LG for sale
Fletcher Mountain Outfitters
$8,500
claimed rebuilt 20 years ago and unused, but in the photo it's outside with tarps nearby so maybe it's in good shape or maybe it's been sitting outside all this time

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=656b1d96f2b1c0561816e5bda3d4c63d&oe=5A26336B
649207258616617
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I'd only remotely consider that if it were freshly, and professionally rebuilt, but hey, everybody thinks all their shit is gold these days. I'd gamble $3,500 max on something like that. It does look decent, but it also clearly has been under tarps long enough for the tarps to fall apart, which is a year at least(more by the looks of them), probably been that way the whole time.

'Course, just cause someone is askin', doesn't mean they'll get it.

Maybe I'm just cheap, but i wouldn't even consider more than $5k for any hammer that wasn't either a) new, or b) under power somewhere i could see it running like a top. Obviously there are exceptions.
 
Most mechanicals I've seen have either plain iron slideways for the ram, or brass faces on the slides, or bronze gibs. Those pieces wouldn't cost too much, and bolting on a piece of bronze flatbar is way easier than pouring and scraping a flat babbitt surface. Another thing to consider, is that UHMW apparently makes good slideways for a ram... cheap, easy to work with, easy to replace. I've never seen a mech hammer with babbitt in the ram slides... it's not necessary.
As far as outright babbitt bearings, as it's been noted, they work fine on old hammers (I poured the ones in my LG) but it's easier and a better build to use modern roller or ball bearings. For stuff like knuckles, steel on steel works fine really, with a grease zerk nearby, or it's easy to bore and press in a bronze bushing.
Also a hammer, while it is a reciprocating machine, isn't like a shaper or something that has to have tight tolerances and do tight work. Hammers are rough beasts, you get them tight enough and then just keep them oiled and go. As far as scraping things into high contact ratio, not really necessary... just pouring bearings around a blacked shaft is a good clearance to run with.
 
Salem Straub said:
Most mechanicals I've seen have either plain iron slideways for the ram, or brass faces on the slides, or bronze gibs. Those pieces wouldn't cost too much, and bolting on a piece of bronze flatbar is way easier than pouring and scraping a flat babbitt surface. Another thing to consider, is that UHMW apparently makes good slideways for a ram... cheap, easy to work with, easy to replace. I've never seen a mech hammer with babbitt in the ram slides... it's not necessary.
As far as outright babbitt bearings, as it's been noted, they work fine on old hammers (I poured the ones in my LG) but it's easier and a better build to use modern roller or ball bearings. For stuff like knuckles, steel on steel works fine really, with a grease zerk nearby, or it's easy to bore and press in a bronze bushing.
Also a hammer, while it is a reciprocating machine, isn't like a shaper or something that has to have tight tolerances and do tight work. Hammers are rough beasts, you get them tight enough and then just keep them oiled and go. As far as scraping things into high contact ratio, not really necessary... just pouring bearings around a blacked shaft is a good clearance to run with.
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FWIW having had a couple of air hammers that were converted to UHM guides, i wouldn't recommend it. It's cheap and easy to work with, but bronze is 1000x better IMO. UHM on paper makes a lot of sense, but it moves too much as it heats up, and catches too much shit over time, forge scale etc. It also compresses enough that it can be problematic for tuning guides.

It does work, I just don't favor it. Also, if you have some piece of the guide break, that needs welding near the UHM, it'll smolder and stink and make you sicker than hell. I had a piece of my OG style Bull, at the top of the guide holders, where the previous owner replaced the bronze with UHM, that would break off occasionally, due to the design it was very difficult to repair without removing the tup and guides, but I welded it back together a few times, and it was a serious mess because of the UHM. Finally I took it all apart and rebuilt it, but if it weren't for the burning UHM keeping me from being able to really lay multiple passes down, I would have been able to make a permanent repair assembled.

Just my preference, not saying it's bad stuff, I'm a huge fan of UHM in many applications. You should have seen the look on the guy's face years ago when I got stuck in a ditch after i slid off the road in a snow storm, when i handed him a dog leash I'd made out of 3/16" diameter Amsteel Blue, and said "trust me, you can pull me out with this". =D Even better when it worked.
 
Good point on the hammer guides. My usual tendancy is to just overbuilt the hell out of everything, but for that it really wouldn't be necessary.
Might consider something along the lines of a pair of lathe steady rests with bronze wear pads on the ends. Adjust it to just be touching, and keep it lubricated. If it starts getting annoyingly sloppy just tighten it a bit.
The bearings for the main shaft I'd probably go with roller bearings. The only way I'd even remotely consider Babbitt for that would be if I happened to have a pair of the right size lined pillowblocks in my pile.
For the knuckle I probably would use Babbitt if I went fancier than steel on steel, but only because I've got a huge pile of Babbitt ingots in an assortment of grades already in my collection.
That said steel on steel would work well enough, especially if lubricated with a good moly grease or white lead.

Is the weight of the flywheel (or whatever you want to call it) the knuckle attaches to that critical in relation to hammer weight? I've got a 400# disc that could be machined into one, but I could easily salvage something smaller from a long dead machine if weight isn't a huge factor there
 
Robert Erickson said:
Does anyone have any experience with a Big Blu hammer?
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I have a 110#. used it 8 years without any issues at all. May not have the brute force of others but the control is there.
I have used Nazel, Champion and a few mechanicals and was not impressed with those. Brute force was there but control not so much.
 
erik markman said:
I have a 110#. used it 8 years without any issues at all. May not have the brute force of others but the control is there.
I have used Nazel, Champion and a few mechanicals and was not impressed with those. Brute force was there but control not so much.
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Erik, you are the one guy that I know who is very happy with their Big Blu for years. I used one that was way "out of tune" by the admission of its owner and it did not compare well with the Say Mak 110 that I got to play with at Cliff Parker's shop. The out of tune Big Blu tried to yank me around a bit with a 1.25 round of W2, whereas the Say Mak make very quick work of a 1.75 round and I ended up with this monstrosity which you saw circa 2009.
DSC_0129.jpg
 
I am talking about old hammers that to me where too far gone in my opinion.
I worked with a Kuhn once that was really nice but I can't spend Kuhn money.
Let's say I am not an old hammer guy.
 
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