Premium Price for G-10?

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Detroit1980 said:
I have absolutely no interest in that knife. It's funny that people talk about knockoffs and copying when that had clearly been a copy off the Benchmade axis lock but that's OK? You people really make no sense.
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So now we're down to Benchmade and Spyderco should make sub-$100 premium knives that you like. This is getting complicated.

Is it fair to say you just think they are being greedy and over charging?
 
Eli Chaps said:
So now we're down to Benchmade and Spyderco should make sub-$100 premium knives that you like. This is getting complicated.

Is it fair to say you just think they are being greedy and over charging?
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I guess that's pretty fair to say and sorry if I grouped you in with others but I just feel like I'm being completely attacked and flamed just for a simple request to offer more knives in G-10. I just can't believe the hate people get when something different or a change is suggested.
 
The Manix was just an example to show the $21 cost increase came with
-upgrade to G10 scales
-added steel liners for strength
-upgraded S30V steel which has significant additional edge retention and corrosion resistance
Not so much a suggestion to buy that model just a price vs material comparison from Spyderco.
 
Detroit1980 said:
I have absolutely no interest in that knife. It's funny that people talk about knockoffs and copying when that had clearly been a copy off the Benchmade axis lock but that's OK? You people really make no sense.
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You are wrong. The Caged Ball Bearing lock is not a copy of the Axis.

Watch some videos on them. The BBL and Axis incorporate fairly different construction and components to reach the same goal.

This post explains the difference better than I can.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-ball-lock-vs-benchmade-axis-lock.720554/#post-7926237


This is evidence to why Spydercos and the like cost more than the example that you gave. They actually pay to conceive, research, test and construct new elements in the knife industry. The example you gave IS a copy of an Axis lock. That same company (I believe it was their president or something )was also caught taking photos at the Spyderco booth some years back of their new and prototype models. They were made to delete the photos. What do you think they were trying to do?
 
JupiterPaladin said:
The Manix was just an example to show the $21 cost increase came with
-upgrade to G10 scales
-added steel liners for strength
-upgraded S30V steel which has significant additional edge retention and corrosion resistance
Not so much a suggestion to buy that model just a price vs material comparison from Spyderco.
Click to expand...

It would be great if they made it a widespread option instead of to just that 1 particular model.
 
Detroit1980 said:
I guess that's pretty fair to say and sorry if I grouped you in with others but I just feel like I'm being completely attacked and flamed just for a simple request to offer more knives in G-10. I just can't believe the hate people get when something different or a change is suggested.
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The official stance of BladeForums is that clones and intellectual property thieves are damaging to the original creators and BF does not support it. Ganzo is a prime example.
Civivi on the other hand is well respected for their contribution to the budget market.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
You are wrong. The Caged Ball Bearing lock is not a copy of the Axis.

Watch some videos on them. The BBL and Axis incorporate fairly different construction and components to reach the same goal.

This post explains the difference better than I can.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spyderco-ball-lock-vs-benchmade-axis-lock.720554/#post-7926237
Click to expand...

It may be somewhat different but I'd be willing to bet that the Axis lock is why the idea was thought of in the first place. You could also argue that Ganzos copy is somewhat different too.
 
Detroit1980 said:
It would be great if they made it a widespread option instead of to just that 1 particular model.
Click to expand...
They do Sprint Runs often that include different scales and/or blade steels, but not for the $100 mark. I'm with you on the desire for those things tho don't get me wrong. I happen to love the Manix 2 and vastly prefer the heavy G10 with liners over the lightweight model.
 
JupiterPaladin said:
The official stance of BladeForums is that clones and intellectual property thieves are damaging to the original creators and BF does not support it. Ganzo is a prime example.
Civivi on the other hand is well respected for their contribution to the budget market.
Click to expand...

The newer Ganzo Firebird series are not clones though.
 
Detroit1980 said:
It may be somewhat different but I'd be willing to bet that the Axis lock is why the idea was thought of in the first place. You could also argue that Ganzos copy is somewhat different too.
Click to expand...


There is nothing wrong with taking an idea and growing it into something else to make it your own. That is called innovation.

You can try and argue but you'd be wrong. Look at some pictures and videos of the Benchmade Axis lock, Ganzo "Axis lock" and the CBB from Spyderco. Tell me which one is different and which two are essentially the same.
 
r8shell said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about the Buck Vantage Pro: USA made, G-10 handles and s30v steel, $85. Possibly the best bargain knife to be had. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Small size is even cheaper $63!


eta: Kershaw Skyline in Sandvik steel is pretty sweet, too.
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Thanks for the info. I will have to look into more Buck knives and I've always liked the value of Kershaws but I just feel they are so limited to how far they can go for the value because it would interfere with the ZT sales if they offered better steels and materials consistently on Kershaws.
 
Detroit1980 said:
I guess that's pretty fair to say and sorry if I grouped you in with others but I just feel like I'm being completely attacked and flamed just for a simple request to offer more knives in G-10. I just can't believe the hate people get when something different or a change is suggested.
Click to expand...

No worries, it's good. In fairness, I really don't think people are attacking you.

There was some confusion to get through.

See, to me, they aren't being greedy. I work in manufacturing and understand all the costs involved, well beyond materials but let's just compare say FRN to G10.

FRN is injection molded. The overwhelming majority of the cost is in making those molds. The actual production thereafter is pretty straight forward and there's minimal work that has to be done when the scales are busted out.

G10 on the other hand has to be cut and machined. And not just that, but I would suspect that they have designated machines and don't cross them over with those designated for metal. CNC's aren't cheap, neither is the foot print or the people to run them. Then there is the fact that G10 is hazardous to breath when machining. So now people need respirators and there is safety monitoring and special cleanup requirements and disposal requirements. Now if you produce enough of it and it is considered a waste stream you have to have city/county/state permits. And so on. See, there's more to it than just the material.

Again, I agree, prices are getting higher. It's just a fact of life. There's a couple Spydercos that I'd really like but I'm just not up for paying the $180+ they are going for. I don't think they are being greedy, I just think it is the way it is.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
There is nothing wrong with taking and idea and growing it into something else to make it your own. That is called innovation.

You can try and argue but you'd be wrong. Look at some pictures and videos of the Benchmade Axis lock, Ganzo "Axis lock" and the CBB from Spyderco. Tell me which one is different and which two are essentially exactly the same.
Click to expand...

The bottom line is that almost all innovation comes from taking someone else's idea and trying to make it better which is a nicer way of saying copying.

With that said, I don't agree at all with anybody cloning or counterfeiting. I just think some companies get more of a pass than others. You could also make an arguement that any framelock knife is stealing from Chris Reeve's design.
 
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