Premium Price for G-10?

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G10 is not plastic. It's a composite material of glass fibers and resin, the exact same way carbon fiber is a composite of carbon fibers and resin. It's mostly glass fiber by volume, and has structural properties accordingly with its composition. Unless you're going to complain that carbon fiber composites are cheap and shouldn't command a price premium, I'd advise you stop thinking about composite materials as something cheap. Each piece needs to be machined, a process with a lot of direct and overhead costs associated with it, rather than how a plastic part can be injection molded at a low marginal cost once the expensive tooling costs are overcome.

US labor is relatively expensive, and the materials you think are cheap are simply not cheap. Gamzo can make a cheap knife with G10 for a variety of reasons you're not considering, including:
  • Low labor costs
  • Poor quality or counterfeit materials, especially with steel choice
  • Low quality control
  • Poor heat treatment, resulting in poor performance
  • Poor tolerances and build quality
  • Incredibly large industrial capacity
For a knife to be made in the USA and built well, there are costs that just can't be overcome.
 
knarfeng said:
Maybe we can get off the IP stuff for once and just focus on the initial question.
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Thank you. Someone with some logical sense. It seems like most of these people have got way off topic and are focused more on Ganzos lol. I simply brought them up as an example of them manufacturing G-10 with decent steel for around $25. This $25 price range is also after companies like Spyderco jacked up their prices.

All that I simply been saying is I would like the opportunity to someday buy a Benchmade or Spyderco with G-10 scales and decent steel for around $100. I'm willing to pay quadruple what a Ganzo costs. I understand there is the tenacious but I'm not interested in that model and I'd like to see more of a variety of knives offered in G-10.
 
Detroit1980 said:
Thank you. Someone with some logical sense. It seems like most of these people have got way off topic and are focused more on Ganzos lol. I simply brought them up as an example of them manufacturing G-10 with decent steel for around $25. This $25 price range is also after companies like Spyderco jacked up their prices.

All that I simply been saying is I would like the opportunity to someday buy a Benchmade or Spyderco with G-10 scales and decent steel for around $100. I'm willing to pay quadruple what a Ganzo costs. I understand there is the tenacious but I'm not interested in that model and I'd like to see more of a variety of knives offered in G-10.
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I'm certain they'd tell you they would do that in a heartbeat if it were possible for them to do at the level of quality and performance they keep their US made knives at. The fact that they haven't should be all the answer you need, but you can always head over to the Spyderco forum and ask Sal Blessed directly if you don't like our answers.
 
Detroit1980 said:
The tenacious is absolutely not what I'm asking for. I prefer 3" blades or just under and 8cr steel is pretty bad for a $50 price range. Good try though and that is only 1 single knife out of their many models they have to offer. It's really no big deal. I just won't buy a Benchmade or Spyderco. Simple as that and I don't know why I'm even still going on lol. I'd still way rather buy a Ganzo Firebird despite the "valuable lessons I've learned."
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You asked why Spyderco won't make a G10 handled knife for under $50. I told you about a Spyderco with G10 handles for about $50. Spyderco and Benchmade aren't interested in selling the product that you want for the price you demand. I wish CRK would sell a titanium frame lock for the price of a WE, titanium isn't that expensive after all.
 
Detroit1980 said:
Thank you. Someone with some logical sense. It seems like most of these people have got way off topic and are focused more on Ganzos lol. I simply brought them up as an example of them manufacturing G-10 with decent steel for around $25. This $25 price range is also after companies like Spyderco jacked up their prices.

All that I simply been saying is I would like the opportunity to someday buy a Benchmade or Spyderco with G-10 scales and decent steel for around $100. I'm willing to pay quadruple what a Ganzo costs. I understand there is the tenacious but I'm not interested in that model and I'd like to see more of a variety of knives offered in G-10.
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But you ignored my other post as to why you are comparing apples to oranges when comparing Benchmade G-10 to Ganzo G-10.

"All goods worth price charged" applies
 
knarfeng said:
But you ignored my other post as to why you are comparing apples to oranges when comparing Benchmade G-10 to Ganzo G-10.

"All goods worth price charged" applies
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I wasn't really comparing the quality of G-10. My point was that it can clearly be done. They just refuse to do it and only offer G-10 in their $150+ models
 
Detroit1980 said:
Thank you. Someone with some logical sense. It seems like most of these people have got way off topic and are focused more on Ganzos lol. I simply brought them up as an example of them manufacturing G-10 with decent steel for around $25. This $25 price range is also after companies like Spyderco jacked up their prices.

All that I simply been saying is I would like the opportunity to someday buy a Benchmade or Spyderco with G-10 scales and decent steel for around $100. I'm willing to pay quadruple what a Ganzo costs. I understand there is the tenacious but I'm not interested in that model and I'd like to see more of a variety of knives offered in G-10.
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And what many of us have been trying to say is it is just not feasible.

I work with several metal types but I'll focus on three.

I can make the exact same profiled product in aluminum, copper, or tungsten. Shape, size, etc. all exactly the same.

The material costs for the aluminum and copper aren't all that different. The aluminum is already at the quality we need it but the copper needs some work. That's cost. The aluminum is pretty easy to melt down and pour. The copper needs much more expensive equipment and longer process times. The aluminum is really easy to roll, machine, and generally get into proper form factor. The copper takes a lot more and uses more machinery. The end price of the copper product is going to be about 3x the aluminum.

Now the tungsten, well that's going to be about 3x the copper because that is another entirely different beast.

But other than color, they all look exactly the same.

Now, our Chinese competitors can make the copper product for about 1.5x the price of the aluminum and the aluminum one they make is dirt cheap. There's a ton of factors in that. They are heavily subsidized so they don't absorb nearly the same costs to set up manufacturing. Their labor is a fraction of ours. Quite often personnel and environmental concerns are non-existent. They don't have an EPA, city zoning, unemployment insurance, often zero or little customer service, and on and on and on.

I'm just saying, there is a whole lot more to it than just handle type A and "decent" steel.
 
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Detroit1980 said:
I wasn't really comparing the quality of G-10. My point was that it can clearly be done. They just refuse to do it and only offer G-10 in their $150+ models
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I am now confused on what you want.

It's been shown here that it is clearly done by USA manufacturers. Many do make sub $100 knives in G-10, just not as many nor the specific models you want.

The quality of the G-10 is an important component as to why you don't see more on the lower tier options. While it can be done, it will more than likely have to suffer quality to fit the price point.
 
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Detroit1980 said:
I wasn't really comparing the quality of G-10. My point was that it can clearly be done. They just refuse to do it and only offer G-10 in their $150+ models
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Dude. Really? The point is not to obtain something called, "G-10".
The point is to get a good knife with a handle that is grippy, not subject to degradation, and comfortable to the hand.

Putting some crap on a handle and calling it "G-10" is meaningless, unless you know that it meets the performance parameters. I know the G-10 on major brands will meet the parameters. I do not know that about cheap knives, no matter what they call the material

And the cost of the $150 knife is not due merely to the handle material.
 
Detroit1980 said:
G-10 should have little to do with pricing but both Benchmade and Spyderco clearly want a premium price for it. That was my initial point and I just think it's ridiculous. They will never have any motivation to change with so many of you fanboys flaming anybody who speaks out against them and that's the most frustrating thing about issues like this to me.

I think everybody should at least be able to admit that they could offer more G-10 handles at a more reasonable price and still be plenty profitable.
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Why would anyone admit that? Do you have access to their books? They're both private companies, and we have no idea what their profit margins are, nor should they feel any obligation to adjust their business models to fit with your idea of price points and what constitutes being 'plenty profitable.' The market determines their success. They make knives and balance quality, materials cost, labor cost, and price, and the market helps them balance those factors.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this. The materials cost is fairly inexpensive. Labor and quality cost is higher. And it's higher in the U.S., Japan, and Taiwan than it is in the PRC.
 
I really don't think the price increase over G9 is worth it. So it gets one extra number, big deal! Is G10 10% better than G9? Also what about G11? That seems to have disappeared rather mysteriously. Almost as if there was a concerted effort to bolster G10...I smell a conspiracy!
 
Detroit1980 said:
Thank you. Someone with some logical sense. It seems like most of these people have got way off topic and are focused more on Ganzos lol. I simply brought them up as an example of them manufacturing G-10 with decent steel for around $25. This $25 price range is also after companies like Spyderco jacked up their prices.

All that I simply been saying is I would like the opportunity to someday buy a Benchmade or Spyderco with G-10 scales and decent steel for around $100. I'm willing to pay quadruple what a Ganzo costs. I understand there is the tenacious but I'm not interested in that model and I'd like to see more of a variety of knives offered in G-10.
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That’s about what prices were circa 2000. There are TONS of different Spydercos with G10 scales. They just cost more than you want to pay. Save up and buy one.

The Manix isn’t much above a bill and they have G10 and great steel. Good deals can be found on the exchange.
 
I don't get the point of this thread, but you didn't need Ganzo for cheap G10 examples. At a quick search on KC here are a few: Kershaw sells <$15 G10 handled knives (e.g. Tension) and Buck has a G10 model <$25, but those are Chinese made, how about something from Italy? Maserin has one model listed as made in Italy that is under $25.

That said, I still don't see the point of this thread. As countless others have pointed out, it's not the G10 driving up prices where prices are higher. FWIW, I like plastic handles and don't see G-10 as a huge upgrade in most cases.
 
Like I said awhile ago, you guys just keep overpaying and be happy!!!

Also, if anybody don't have any sensible responses, then don't respond! It's simple! I really hope Spyderco and Benchmade jack up their prices again so you have to pay more and guess what? I won't be buying any!

To be honest the majority of you guys just seem like sheeple and I want nothing to do with this community. All you guys do is except these companie's greed and don't want to do anything to try and change anything but pay more so I really hope that's what you get. I swear people are so dumb these days.
 
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Detroit1980 said:
Like I said awhile ago, you guys just keep overpaying and be happy!!!

Also, if anybody don't have any sensible responses, then don't respond! It's simple! I really hope Spyderco and Benchmade jack up their prices again so you have to pay more and guess what? I won't be buying any!
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Sensible like your response here? Sensible like everyone telling you the same thing and you not listening to bit of it? Sensible like spitting in the face of our community here with your proclaimed desire to support clone companies over legitimate companies?

I'm going to advise you to reevaluate who is being sensible, but I'm betting that advice will fall on deaf ears....
 
craytab said:
Sensible like your response here? Sensible like everyone telling you the same thing and you not listening to bit of it? Sensible like spitting in the face of our community here with your proclaimed desire to support clone companies over legitimate companies?

I'm going to advise you to reevaluate who is being sensible, but I'm betting that advice will fall on deaf ears....
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I advise you to reevaluate the whole point of this thread. This has got way off topic because of a bunch of idiots.

Just another bunch of stupid fan boys.
 
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