Production Knives with High HRC

[taste.blade]

You guys all have really great input! I just picked up a spyderco mule in K390 and a wayfarer 247 in M390 I’m interest to see how they compare (also an older Becker BK10 and a DPX Hest but I’m not sure exactly what the steels are yet).

Interesting points on grain structure and of course geometry/blade design.

 

[Strauss95]

Spyderco heat treats Rex 45, Maxamet, and K390 really well. All three typically are at or above 65 HRC.

 

[ruiker]

It is 100% not an original design by ganzo. I posted in another thread the one it copied a while back ago.

Proof of the model they copied.
https://i.imgur.com/CkB9r0b.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1IrFrdL5TBuNjSspmq6yDRVXa9.jpg

that was not directed at those few youtubers. But the other masses that make reviews on knives that focus on just the name of the composition.

When you accuse someone as seriously as copying a design, especially when qualifying it as “It is 100% not an original design ”，you are expected to provide some hard evidence instead of some random online pictures which proves nothing. I found the source of your picture here:

https://m.dhgate.com/product/high-q...rai-folding/408558943.html?invitorid=NZFbmq6a

This is a non-branded knife so it could very well be the case that it’s copying Ganzo’s FH11 design instead of vice versa. If you have other better evidence showing Ganzo FH11 is copying, please show it. Also please show how D2 knives with similar HRC differ with important metrics like “crystal structure” etc. Be responsible for your words!

 

[Chris*33]

When you accuse someone as seriously as copying a design, especially when qualifying it as “It is 100% not an original design ”，you are expected to provide some hard evidence instead of some random online pictures which proves nothing. I found the source of your picture here:

https://m.dhgate.com/product/high-q...rai-folding/408558943.html?invitorid=NZFbmq6a

This is a non-branded knife so it could very well be the case that it’s copying Ganzo’s design instead of vice versa. If you have other better evidence showing Ganzo FH11 is copying, please show it. Also please show how D2 knives with similar HRC differ with important metrics like “crystal structure” etc. Be responsible for your words!

Maybe the Firebird F7563 and the G729 will look familiar

 

[Mo2]

When you accuse someone as seriously as copying a design, especially when qualifying it as “It is 100% not an original design ”，you are expected to provide some hard evidence instead of some random online pictures which proves nothing. I found the source of your picture here:

https://m.dhgate.com/product/high-q...rai-folding/408558943.html?invitorid=NZFbmq6a

This is a non-branded knife so it could very well be the case that it’s copying Ganzo’s FH11 design instead of vice versa. If you have other better evidence showing Ganzo FH11 is copying, please show it. Also please show how D2 knives with similar HRC differ with important metrics like “crystal structure” etc. Be responsible for your words!

They are 100% known for copying. That design was out prior than the ganzo. And the Chinese generally copy each other anyways. It's proof enough that they are shady and always will be.

You can also find the other knives they make that are so called not copies from other Chinese brands that have already been designed ahead of the release from ganzo.

They are not trust worthy.

Avoid the brand like the plauge. They are not a real company.


Be responsible for my words? If you learned about heat treatment I wouldn't have to explain anything further. Do me a favor and learn from some experts. Nathan the Machinist on this forum is a monumental resource for heat treatment. Please do me a favor and read his posts and threads. He's done alot of testing.

 

[tiguy7]

View attachment 1119090 This Knives of Alaska DiamondBlade Summit has a Friction Forged D-2 blade which is hardened to 65-68 HRC.

 

[Baron Mind]

Spyderco's k390 is around 66hrc, it's pretty much the nuts right now. High wear resistance due to high carbide volume and high hardness, good fine edge holding due to high hardness, and high edge stability due to high hardness. High carbide volume is detrimental to fine edge holding, and edge stability of course, but it's not insanely high like Maxamet or REX121, and the low chromium allows for very high hardness, which is key for those 2 attributes. It's basically perfectly balanced for all 3 attributes I mentioned.

 

[Mo2]

There are a lot of hot opinions on Ganzo. Apparently, they have copied designs or design elements in the past. Supposedly, a big offender involves a lock design by Benchmade. (I have a problem with Benchmade that I take just as seriously, but the particulars count as "politics" so we can't discuss them in this section of the forum.) The only Ganzo I own is the FH11, which is an original design by Ganzo as far as I know.

There are lots of factors which determine how well a blade performs. The type of steel, its heat treatment, and its geometry all matter. I'm not an expert but I usually see HRC discussed as a proof of proper heat treatment. Hardness might not be the whole story but in my experience, the FH11 holds a good edge and performs well. The FH11 has an excellent action and locks up solidly. Except for needing a little edge chamfering on the scales, I've been fairly impressed with the FH11.

Now, I've had lots of knives in all sorts of budget steels. The FH11 is my first experience with D2. It performs exactly like it is supposed to based on everything I've read. Other companies might do better with their D2 and based on my experiences with the FH11, I'd say that's great. In the meantime, Mo2, do you have experience with the FH11 to validate what you are saying about it? If what you are saying is true about Ganzo's heat treatment, how do the factors aside from resultant hardness affect the knife? Is there anything in particular I should be looking out for as I continue to use the knife?

When you accuse someone as seriously as copying a design, especially when qualifying it as “It is 100% not an original design ”，you are expected to provide some hard evidence instead of some random online pictures which proves nothing. I found the source of your picture here:



This is a non-branded knife so it could very well be the case that it’s copying Ganzo’s FH11 design instead of vice versa. If you have other better evidence showing Ganzo FH11 is copying, please show it. Also please show how D2 knives with similar HRC differ with important metrics like “crystal structure” etc. Be responsible for your words!

Warning excessive swearing.

here's a test that was just uploaded tonight. you see the FH11 does terrible even though its confirmed 62hrc.
please read the threads on heat treatment to get a better understanding of why this matters more than hrc. this is bladeforums which includes a bladesmiths subforum. its very useful for stuff like this.
search username Nathan the Machinist for terms D2 and you will see alot of threads about it.

Edit: here's a bunch....

https://xf.bladeforums.com/threads/any-experience-with-nathans-d2.1470902/#post-16929136
https://bladeforums.com/threads/heat-treat-d2-yanagi-ba.1657240/
https://bladeforums.com/threads/psf27-d2-interest.1639626/#post-18748071
https://bladeforums.com/threads/d2-soak-time.1612244/#post-18416334
https://bladeforums.com/threads/is-it-psf27-or-d2.1597897/#post-18249001
https://bladeforums.com/threads/the-chinese-made-“d2”-explosion.1551281/page-2#post-17813065
https://bladeforums.com/threads/d2-grains-carbides-and-cryo.1424963/#post-16431288
https://bladeforums.com/threads/d2-heat-treat.1393626/#post-16062099
https://bladeforums.com/threads/heat-treating-good-better-best.1371928/#post-15807005
https://bladeforums.com/threads/trying-to-understand-d2-heat-treat-and-temper.1258017/#post-14405613

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

View attachment 1119090 This Knives of Alaska DiamondBlade Summit has a Friction Forged D-2 blade which is hardened to 65-68 HRC.

If that ever needs sharpening I'd love to do it. They're too pricey for me, but I'd like to check one out.

 

[tiguy7]

Get in line. The amount of hunting I do these days is not going precipitously ruin the edge. Also I have a full set of Shaptons which love non-Vanadium steel. Thanks for the offer though.

 

[tiguy7]

This Kershaw Tyrade has a CPM D-2/154CM composite blade the business side of which is hardened to 62-83 HRC. View attachment 1119925

 

[taste.blade]

Tiguy I assume you meant 62-63 HRC. Is that kershaw model/variation still available today?

 

[REK Knives]

Anyone used m390 at high hardness? Trying to figure out what I should have peters push my folder run to... Thinking going for 63-64rc but curious on any testing or use reports.

 

[taste.blade]

I would love to have a folder in m390 @ 64HRC

 

[tiguy7]

Tiguy I assume you meant 62-63 HRC. Is that kershaw model/variation still available today?

Thanks, I corrected 62-83 to 62-63. This model was Knife of the Year in 2007 at the Blade Show (Blade Magazine). It is no longer made, but they pop up on the bay and other places.

 

[taste.blade]

Thanks, I corrected 62-83 to 62-63. This model was Knife of the Year in 2007 at the Blade Show (Blade Magazine). It is no longer made, but they pop up on the bay and other places.

Thanks Tiguy! I try not to shop the bay too often for knives as its just another rabbit hole for me.

Anyone used m390 at high hardness? Trying to figure out what I should have peters push my folder run to... Thinking going for 63-64rc but curious on any testing or use reports.

Josh, I have a knife in M390 at whats reported to be 60-61 and its thin but not what I would consider delicate, hard not to carry every single day.

 

[Mo2]

Anyone used m390 at high hardness? Trying to figure out what I should have peters push my folder run to... Thinking going for 63-64rc but curious on any testing or use reports.

I'd say do it and give it good geometry and use it for slicing. Peter's does a really good heat treatment and 62+ is idea for these steels with cryo.

Not a hard use steel and giving something like that hrc thick geometry is just not worth it.

 

[REK Knives]

I'd say do it and give it good geometry and use it for slicing. Peter's does a really good heat treatment and 62+ is idea for these steels with cryo.

Not a hard use steel and giving something like that hrc thick geometry is just not worth it.

Yeah, I totally agree. I use mine decently hard (zip ties, hacking tree branches, etc) and never had an issue at lower angles *(15 dps) w/ high rc. I tend to feel as if most mfg's under harden their blades. I like to push them up to where they are optimum and where you will actually see the benefit of the "super steel". I just wanted to be sure that there won't be any issues at 63-64rc with every day use like I just mentioned. Of course, I will be testing it out first but it's best to know up front since I'm doing these in a batch.

 

[Mo2]

Yeah, I totally agree. I use mine decently hard (zip ties, hacking tree branches, etc) and never had an issue at lower angles *(15 dps) w/ high rc. I tend to feel as if most mfg's under harden their blades. I like to push them up to where they are optimum and where you will actually see the benefit of the "super steel". I just wanted to be sure that there won't be any issues at 63-64rc with every day use like I just mentioned. Of course, I will be testing it out first but it's best to know up front since I'm doing these in a batch.

Ive not tried 63-64 but have some at 62 and it's pretty good at zip ties and breaking down boxes. I'd love to try some at 63-64 with Peter's ht in the distant future. But I don't think hacking down tree branches at that hrc is idea. But would be interesting to test.

 

[Sergeua]

I would love to have a folder in m390 @ 64HRC

Check out cultrotech. Production stuff doesn't come close to it's edge retention.