Production Knives with High HRC

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Sergeua said:
Check out cultrotech. Production stuff doesn't come close to it's edge retention.
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So glad you mentioned them... I was trying to remember that name, because someone was telling me that they did some testing on m390 at high rc and it was a top performer.

Off to find videos!
 
Hinderer may have the best s35vn at 60-61. I know Spyderco has properly heat treated most of the exotic steel sprints to a suitable HRC to near maximize the steel.

HRC is the one of the biggest 4 factors of edge retention which a lot of people don’t consider. They look at just the recipe which is the least important factor. Good topic to bring up :thumbsup:
 
sXePhenomenal said:
Hinderer may have the best s35vn at 60-61. I know Spyderco has properly heat treated most of the exotic steel sprints to a suitable HRC to near maximize the steel.

HRC is the one of the biggest 4 factors of edge retention which a lot of people don’t consider. They look at just the recipe which is the least important factor. Good topic to bring up :thumbsup:
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Hrc is not one of the biggest factors. Hrc means very little. The way the heat treatment is done matters more. This has been proven time and again in performance cut tests. You can have knives at 58hrc that have a better heat treatment perform far better than ones at 61hrc.

Also one companies hrc tester will not likely match another companies hrc tester results. Even though they are both calibrated correctly.

But as a general rule if the heat treatment is done well... Then yes, that is correct. But that's what so few people understand is that full picture.
 
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Going to the extreme of bad heat treatment isn’t the best argument and misrepresents what was stated. There’s a correlation between higher hardness and edge retention. HRC is 100% 1 of the 4 biggest factors. Of course proper heat treatment is first.
Mo2 said:
Hrc is not one of the biggest factors. Hrc means very little. The way the heat treatment is done matters more. This has been proven time and again in performance cut tests. You can have knives at 58hrc that have a better heat treatment perform far better than ones at 61hrc.

Also one companies hrc tester will not likely match another companies hrc tester results. Even though they are both calibrated correctly.

But as a general rule if the heat treatment is done well... Then yes, that is correct. But that's what so few people understand is that full picture.
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sXePhenomenal said:
Going to the extreme of bad heat treatment isn’t the best argument and misrepresents what was stated. There’s a correlation between higher hardness and edge retention. HRC is 100% 1 of the 4 biggest factors. Of course proper heat treatment is first.
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I totally agree, HRC represents a culmination of metallurgic properties/capability and result of heat treatment. I think its an important factor that is very telling of the quality of knife.
 
taste.blade said:
I totally agree, HRC represents a culmination of metallurgic properties/capability and result of heat treatment. I think its an important factor that is very telling of the quality of knife.
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Hrc is the only factor that can be measured and is not as important as the full picture. So many knives have been tested at high hrc and under performed and a few at lower hrc have over performed.

Grain size, reduced retained austenite, proper temp control, proper carbide and carbon distribution, etc all matter even more.

If a hrc is achieved, there isn't always a guarantee that it will perform better. In fact you can heat treat a knife three different ways and get the exact same hrc on each and each will perform different. Even if it's a high hrc.
 
Mo2 said:
Hrc is the only factor that can be measured and is not as important as the full picture. So many knives have been tested at high hrc and under performed and a few at lower hrc have over performed.

Grain size, reduced retained austenite, proper temp control, proper carbide and carbon distribution, etc all matter even more.

If a hrc is achieved, there isn't always a guarantee that it will perform better. In fact you can heat treat a knife three different ways and get the exact same hrc on each and each will perform different. Even if it's a high hrc.
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HRC is not the "end-all be-all" but it offers a snapshot into the heat treat process combine with the steel type to make an informed purchase.
Do you research the grain size, reduced retained austenite, proper temp control, proper carbide and carbon distribution, etc on each knife you obtain? are you on site with a timer capturing the time spent quenching and retaining the austenite?
This thread was created to provide a place to talk about knives with a surprising or high HRC, not to discredit the test and testing methods.
 
The preceding argument is exactly why we’re so intentional about saying, “when properly heat treated” or some variation thereof, before referencing hrc in videos.

Given a good process to get to that hrc number, hrc is one of the biggest predictors of CATRA or cardboard cutting performance, along with composition and geometry. Against other media, the matrix hardness may be less informative than other factors.
 
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Maybe the steel nerds should all team up and create a massive database with all the important details on every production knife. Think of all the time we could save by just looking it up.
 
Taking my new-to-me Mule team 17 in K390 camping this weekend! I honestly want to put it through its paces just so I can put a crispy edge back on it.
 
Have fun with it. I have several Mules. K390 may be my favorite. Would like to see more of it in knives. It's not the toughest fixed blade steel, so I wouldn't beat on it too hard.

Btw, my A11 Mule seems pretty close to the K390 in terms of taking and keeping an edge. Not sure about toughness difference between the two.
 
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Mo2 said:
Hrc is the only factor that can be measured and is not as important as the full picture. So many knives have been tested at high hrc and under performed and a few at lower hrc have over performed.

Grain size, reduced retained austenite, proper temp control, proper carbide and carbon distribution, etc all matter even more.

If a hrc is achieved, there isn't always a guarantee that it will perform better. In fact you can heat treat a knife three different ways and get the exact same hrc on each and each will perform different. Even if it's a high hrc.
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Agree. Doing a lot of reading on knifesteelnerds.com. It's becoming pretty clear that the process is far more important than the final HRC number. I believe if you assume "good" heat treat, the same blade and steel at higher HRC should have more edge retention (and likely less toughness).
 
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So to make a long story short, there are a whole bunch of factors that influence how well a knife blade can work.

At the end of the day, the Ganzo FH11 doesn't have the best version of D2 you'll find. However, it is decently hard at 62 HRC. In terms of normal EDC cutting tasks, flipping action, and lock-up; it performs very well for a sub-$30 knife. Is there a better contender in this price bracket? Sure, it might be the bottom member of this list. You know what they call the doctor who graduated last in class at medical school?
 
I throw the Ruike P801 into my pocket every so often. You can get it for right around $30, comes in 14C28N. I swear it flips as well as a ZT if not better and slices well.

Can we please not make this a thread about Ganzo?
 
David Richardson said:
Have fun with it. I have several Mules. K390 may be my favorite. Would like to see more of it in knives. It's not the toughest fixed blade steel, so I wouldn't beat on it too hard.

Btw, my A11 Mule seems pretty close to the K390 in terms of taking and keeping an edge. Not sure about toughness difference between the two.
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Haven’t taken my mule out yet because I couldn’t resist trying out this BK-10 I picked up at the local gun show. Any clue how old it is?
 

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Cosmodragoon said:
So to make a long story short, there are a whole bunch of factors that influence how well a knife blade can work.

At the end of the day, the Ganzo FH11 doesn't have the best version of D2 you'll find. However, it is decently hard at 62 HRC. In terms of normal EDC cutting tasks, flipping action, and lock-up; it performs very well for a sub-$30 knife. Is there a better contender in this price bracket? Sure, it might be the bottom member of this list. You know what they call the doctor who graduated last in class at medical school?
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No. They copy designs. They confused buyers by artificially inflating there hrc to sell knives. They confused buyers by saying they didn't copy this design when they did. The company has a long standing history of copying designs, trademarks, patents.

It is d2. There is no different version of d2 that's better. They purposely raised the hrc without giving it a better heat treatment. To sell to unsuspecting market.

You could get an Ontario rat in Aus8 which has a better heat treatment and cutting performance at that price.

Any knife should open and cut.

I hope you see that they will do anything to sell there crap in devious ways.
 
Mo2 said:
No. They copy designs. They confused buyers by artificially inflating there hrc to sell knives. They confused buyers by saying they didn't copy this design when they did. The company has a long standing history of copying designs, trademarks, patents.

It is d2. There is no different version of d2 that's better. They purposely raised the hrc without giving it a better heat treatment. To sell to unsuspecting market.

You could get an Ontario rat in Aus8 which has a better heat treatment and cutting performance at that price.

Any knife should open and cut.

I hope you see that they will do anything to sell there crap in devious ways.
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I have a Firebird FH11 in CF . Actually it's a surprisingly fine "Gentlemen's" fidgety flipper . I paid $23 .

Not a hard use knife IMO , just because the lockup is tuned to be very easy to unlock . Flips super easy , one handed , either hand . F and F is very precise .

Runs on bearings , very smooth . The D2 doesn't scratch easily and cuts cardboard readily . Don't know how to evaluate the HT relative to other D2 .
 
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