Professional Courtesy

[Natlek]

Making knife is not like copy/paste on comp . Even if you have example of knife someone want you to make copy , it would not be easy to make exact copy . From picture ???? Never ! You can make knife which would look like that knife but not exact copy of that knife , the dimensions would be different wherever you measured them on a knife . The shape of the handle, guard ....I would like to see someone can do that from picture ..........................So it won't be a copy of that knife, a close imitation maybe. So if it is not the same knife why I should not try to make one ? Why should I ask for permission from other knife maker ? Mine name should be on ricasso not from that knifemaker !! It s just knife for God's sake blade and handle , it is not an algorithm for artificial intelligence ! We make them 5000 years !
The owner/maker of this dagger should sue all of us for plagiarism ?? Make that knife , put your name on it if you think it is best what you can do and someone who like what you done should buy it !

So old dagger and still the best one I've seen ............ I'm jealous of that knife master

 

[Natlek]

One more thing .... After many attempts/failure , time and destroyed expensive material , I finally found a way to make Kevlar handles and sheath. Soon I will show you a ready-made knife with a Kevlar handle .... No one has done it so far, at least as far as I know. Does that mean that no one should ever try to make scale from Kevlar without my approval ?
One of the experiments......................

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Sorry my friend, but you are copping someone. It has been done many times:

 

[Drew Riley]

One more thing .... After many attempts/failure , time and destroyed expensive material , I finally found a way to make Kevlar handles and sheath. Soon I will show you a ready-made knife with a Kevlar handle .... No one has done it so far, at least as far as I know. Does that mean that no one should ever try to make scale from Kevlar without my approval ?
One of the experiments......................

I hate to tell you, but Kevlar handle scales have been a thing for years. Look up “thunderstorm Kevlar”

 

[Natlek]

I hate to tell you, but Kevlar handle scales have been a thing for years. Look up “thunderstorm Kevlar”

That ? I know that material , a few strings wrapped in epoxy you call Kevlar ? That is not even close to Kevlar which I use , tightly woven ballistic Kevlar fabric......That is Kevlar . Look my handle and compare to that epoxy handle with some strand of Kevlar and metal Be my guest and drill hole in that piece of ***** when it is laminated...........................

 

[Scott Hanson]

On the original topic, if the client wants an EXACT copy of the knife of another maker, probably good courtesy to shoot him a a slightly flattering message, say you love his work and would you mind if you based a knife on one of his pieces.

If the client wants something similar to that piece, I would recommend drawing up something similar based on the makers work, put a bit of your own spin on it, and check back with the client to see if he likes the modified design.

Exactly! if someone gets inspiration from my work and uses some ideas, that's fine, I just don't want people making out right copies of my work.

I think we've strayed a bit from the original topic. What was attempted here was to use Scott's product as a vehicle for fraud. I doubt that the buyer would have received anything.

On the original topic, I think the closer we get to art knives, the further we get from just "wood and steel" in the same sense that a painting is more than canvas and paint. When I look through the David Darom books, the creativity by some makers is way beyond anything I could ever come up with and would be silly to copy.
I did make a dagger with a trapped ball pommel inspired by Bruce Bump's work. I exchanged some emails with Bruce and he was very helpful with some tips. My version used a pyrite sphere which Bruce thought was neat and he said he might try something similar. Obviously no one will mistake my work for Bruce's and most other details were different.

You hit the nail on the head, I've spent a lot of time creating attractive spacer patterns, sheaths and blade combinations, to make my knives uniquely mine. More than just pieces of wood glues to a piece of metal.

I could say that it is a copy of an Austrian flag because the spacers are red-white-red. Does that make me right?

Lets be honest and please don't get me wrong, it's exceptional work, but there is nothing in there that makes that knife pattern, handle, spacer design or guard design as destiguishable from many other similiar (but not same) knifes that it could be protected under IP law. The only thing I see there that you could protect is your makers mark as a TM and your IP on the picture itself. Your makers mark will also be (somewhat) protected as an unregistered TM (google this). Again, I could be wrong, but I dont think so.

If the specific pattern (as an arrangement of colors or shapes) of the spacers can be seen on all your knifes and it became as relevant for the market as Bob Lovelesses drop point design and as destiguishable from all other knifes and spacer patterns on the market, that when you see it (without it having your makers mark), and one goes "hey, thats a Scott Hanson", then one could argue that that specific pattern reached a relevance of becoming a trademark itself.

Still, no one should be allowed to blatantly use someone elses pictures or makers mark, and pass their work as yours.

And seriously, do you think that someone who can afford your knife (without knowing what they cost), would buy a cheap copy from a Pakistani guy on Facebook?

I am not trying to dis you, but just share my (non binding and somewhat also professional) opinion on the example you made. Again, I am not a US lawyer and might be completely wrong.

You can call it an Austrian flag or anything you want, that's you prerogative, there may not be anything unusual or distinguishable about this knife from other knives, other than the fact that I designed that knife in that pattern and to that standard. We've been through this before a few months ago in another thread here several months ago. Most of the posters in that thread thought it was poor ethics to copy someone else's work. Copying other peoples work without there permission would make us no different than the Pakistanis or Chinese.

Ethics and legality of copying designs

So to make a Bowie as you posted with guard, spacers and stag handle I need to ask you if I can make it and give you credit for that? Where in your photos of that Bowie are you giving credit?

Okay, before you copy anyones work, you would be much better received if you ask them for permission first. Chances are you would probably get the okay to make a few of their knives. Having a maker stumble across a bunch of copies of his work without anyone ever asking him if they copy them in the first place probably won't sit well with him. The included link was posted in this sub-forum several months ago about this very subject, you should read it, it's exactly how members of this sub-forum feel copying other peoples work without their permission.

 

[AVigil]

What I do know is no one does that style better then Scott Hanson.

There I said it

 

[Scott Hanson]

What I do know is no one does that style better then Scott Hanson.

There I said it

Thanks Adam, I wasn't expecting that.lol. It's just that I put a lot of time and work into making a few designs that I would like to think are uniquely mine. I personally would never make a exact copy of anyone else's work without their permission, but that's just me I guess.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Wrapping handles in hemp/cord with turks head knots, etc... has been done many times throughout history, I'd imagine. I also "age" my blades with acid. I drew inspiration from makers like Dan Winkler, Tai Goo, Tim Lively, John Cohea and put my own twist(pun intended) on the look. They were gracious in talking me through some of their methods. For whatever reason, I've kinda created a signature look and folks like it. I've had MANY makers contact me asking if they can use "the wrap" ..... lol... i did not invent it. So like the makers who were so generous to me, I help folks achieve the look. There are no secrets, IMO. The quickest way to establish your signature look is to GIVE IT AWAY, so others can share the beauty/utility you see in it as well. Ask Brent Beshara, he doesn't have a pattent on the Besh Wedge(TM) but the name is trademarked. He missed the boat on the patent but hoofed the design around to as many makers/manufacturers as he could. Most patents are easily worked around but reputation and style, built up by honest work and relationships, lasts.

Wait... what was the question? Oh, yeah... contact the maker, be respectful, gain respect in return. The reality is unless there is a patent/trademark infringement, you can legally copy anything you want.

 

[Sam Wilson]

Some makers have trademarked their knives, and you are not legally allowed to reproduce them without permission. See Gil Hibben's Rambo III knife.

 

[AVigil]

What is a trademark?​

A trademark can be any word, phrase, symbol, design, or a combination of these things that identifies your goods or services. It’s how customers recognize you in the marketplace and distinguish you from your competitors.

What is a trademark?

A trademark can be any word, phrase, symbol, design, or a combination of these things that identifies your goods or services.

www.uspto.gov

 

[AVigil]

Some makers have trademarked their knives, and you are not legally allowed to reproduce them without permission. See Gil Hibben's Rambo III knife.

I feel it is important to note that Gil Hibben licensed United Cutlery exclusively to produce replicas of the knives that he designed for the "Rambo III" and "Rambo" movies. He did not grant permission to Master Cutlery to produce replicas of the knives and they are doing so without his consent and against his wishes. Master Cutlery has been granted license to use the "Rambo" trademark on items they market but they have not been granted license for the knife design by Gil Hibben. The official statement from Hibben Knives regarding the issue is as follows:

"For over 20 years we have used the “RAMBO” trademarks (currently owned by Studio Canal Image S.A.) in connection with the advertising and sale of the knives featured in the movies Rambo III and Rambo. While we strongly believe we still have the right to use the “RAMBO” trademarks, we have decided to temporarily discontinue such use in order to avoid a legal dispute with the trademark owner. We are, and will continue to be, the ONLY source of authentic reproductions of the knives used by Sylvester Stallone in the movies Rambo III and Rambo."

RamboComparison

It seems at the time of this statement he did not have the right to use "Rambo" and Master Cutlery was actually making the "Rambo 3" knife .

 

[Sam Wilson]

What is a trademark?​

A trademark can be any word, phrase, symbol, design, or a combination of these things that identifies your goods or services. It’s how customers recognize you in the marketplace and distinguish you from your competitors.

What is a trademark?

A trademark can be any word, phrase, symbol, design, or a combination of these things that identifies your goods or services.

www.uspto.gov

If you go to the USPTO website, and you are capable to search, you will find Gil's trademark for the RIII knife. I have seen it there, and the Hibben's have shown it to me. Good luck, young man.

Sam

 

[AVigil]

If you go to the USPTO website, and you are capable to search, you will find Gil's trademark for the RIII knife. I have seen it there, and the Hibben's have shown it to me. Good luck, young man.

Sam

Yes, his name is trade mark.
Strange, it says United Cutlery is the owner

Word Mark​	GIL HIBBEN
Goods and Services​	IC 008. US 023 028 044. G & S: Hand tools, namely, knives in the nature of fixed blade knives, swords, machetes, and throwing knives. FIRST USE: 20081000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20081000
Standard Characters Claimed​
Mark Drawing Code​	(4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number​	87639936
Filing Date​	October 10, 2017
Current Basis​	1A
Original Filing Basis​	1A
Published for Opposition​	April 9, 2019
Registration Number​	5784611
Registration Date​	June 25, 2019
Owner​	(REGISTRANT) United Cutlery Corporation CORPORATION GEORGIA 475 US Hwy 319 South Moultrie GEORGIA 31768
Attorney of Record​	Thomas W. Epting
Type of Mark​	TRADEMARK
Register​	PRINCIPAL
Other Data​	The name(s), portrait(s), and/or signature(s) shown in the mark identifies "GIL HIBBEN", whose consent(s) to register is made of record.
Live/Dead Indicator​	LIVE

 

[Sam Wilson]

Gil has several. When you find the right one, it will have a clear image of the RIII bowie in it, and then you will see the light. I found it in about 5 minutes the last time I looked, so I am sure you can too.

Sam

 

[AVigil]

Gil has several. When you find the right one, it will have a clear image of the RIII bowie in it, and then you will see the light. I found it in about 5 minutes the last time I looked, so I am sure you can too.

Sam

Well it did not come up on search this time.
And since a Trademark is not for a knife, maybe you got confused

 

[Sam Wilson]

I don't know what to tell you then, bud. I found it on my phone, and I have seen it on the USPTO website. As long as the USPTO and the Hibben's have it, it will be good. I'm not confused, but you are mistaken.

He has a trademark for the Rambo III bowie, and has sent Cease and Desist letters to people that have tried to rip off his design. I'm sure their lawyer wouldn't waste time on a trademark that doesn't exist. Busse probably shouldn't have a trademark for a round hole in the blade, but they do.

I'm sure you will catch up at some point, but the fact is they have the trademark. Opinions are irrelevant, who has NOT seen it is irrelevant. Argue with the USPTO if you want. Best of luck.

Sam

 

[AVigil]

I don't know what to tell you then, bud. I found it on my phone, and I have seen it on the USPTO website. As long as the USPTO and the Hibben's have it, it will be good. I'm not confused, but you are mistaken.

He has a trademark for the Rambo III bowie, and has sent Cease and Desist letters to people that have tried to rip off his design. I'm sure their lawyer wouldn't waste time on a trademark that doesn't exist. Busse probably shouldn't have a trademark for a round hole in the blade, but they do.

I'm sure you will catch up at some point, but the fact is they have the trademark. Opinions are irrelevant, who has NOT seen it is irrelevant. Argue with the USPTO if you want. Best of luck.

Sam

Well it is just a story until you provide evidence otherwise. You never bothered to provide any evidence last time this was brought up. Don't be afraid to bring it up on your phone again and post it here. It would be a good contribution to the forum.

 

[Natlek]

Gil has several. When you find the right one, it will have a clear image of the RIII bowie in it, and then you will see the light. I found it in about 5 minutes the last time I looked, so I am sure you can too.

Sam

I remember you wrote same this a long time ago in another topic. Why don't you just give us a link so we can all look at that document?

 

[Sam Wilson]

Well it is just a story until you provide evidence otherwise. You never bothered to provide any evidence last time this was brought up. Don't be afraid to bring it up on your phone again and post it here. It would be a good contribution to the forum.

Just a story *to you.* USPTO has the official filing. If it's important to you, find it. If not, then what do you care anyway?

Sam