Prune Big, or Go Home!

[philllll]

Added a few pruners over the last month, first a Ulster Knife Co, I think this one is pretty old, have not seen the Ellenville tang stamp all that often,

A Kabar, well worn but has some very nice bone with interesting jigging,

A Norvell Shapleigh,

Group shot,

Great finds, Augie!

 

[waynorth]

Nice bunch, John!!
The Ellenville stamp is old and rare for sure!

 

[Will Power]

Augie Your Ulster proclaims quality, no rough rural peasant that one Fine handle, superior end-cap/plate and the bolster really impresses me. What it's called though? Looks like a double Rat-Tail or Pinched Rat-Tail Or??

Thanks, Will

 

[Cambertree]

Well I must admit, despite having admired the magnificent Pruners in this thread on more than a few occasions before, I know next to nothing about this pattern.

I got to examine and handle some real beauties though, a couple of weekends ago in a friend's collection, and thought I'd share them here.

Some of them may have been posted here before by 1500international, whose collection they come from, but I didn't think you'd mind seeing some noble old Pruners get another go 'round.

So without further ado, I'll step aside and let them 'speak for themselves'.

Joseph Rodgers.


Saynor.


Humphries and Company.


Single beveled Wostenholm.

Scratted Joseph Rodgers



Photo showing the massive, tapered backspring, seemingly typical of some of these pruners.


Group shot. There's only one way you get that lovely buttery colour and smooth texture of these hafts, and that's a whole lot of pocket wear!


Treasure chest.

 

[Ramrodmb]

Fantastic group!! Love the aged stag. The scratted Rogers is really something special! :thumbup:

 

[Cambertree]

Fantastic group!! Love the aged stag. The scratted Rogers is really something special! :thumbup:

Thanks mate! Yes, I agree, that Ol' Scratty is the jewel in the crown!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Cambertree - Oh man...those are just beautiful - Both of those Joseph Rodgers!!!! Oh that Stag! and The JR Scratted Hawkbill is just amazing - what a find! The others are themselves - stunners. I would have each and everyone in my collection in a Heart Beat.:thumbup:

Added a few pruners over the last month, first a Ulster Knife Co, I think this one is pretty old, have not seen the Ellenville tang stamp all that often,

A Kabar, well worn but has some very nice bone with interesting jigging,

A Norvell Shapleigh,

Group shot,

Lets just move these over here :thumbup:

i am sure that Augie pays some little people to scan the world on the computer to find all the existing Treasures that still are out there

Augie- as my friends have said- each and every one of my - sorry those Pruners are just awesome!! I too have not seen that Stamp - well done my friend :thumbup:

Edit:...I have done much research on that new Tang Stamp Augie...... Im sorry to say it's a Fake,

I know this is bad news for you, and as a very very very good friend of yours I will burden myself to take that Fake off your hands - also, I feel that it has tainted most of your collection, so all these knives too need to be sent to me so I can deal with this situation.

I know this is tough, but I will somehow manage, theres no need to thank me for this either - as I am always here to support my knife friends through times like this.

 

[BigBiscuit]

Such a unselfish act Duncan. Always the gentleman.

 

[paulhilborn]

John, Duncan may be on to something there. All knives come through me enroute to Duncan, I ASSURE you that I'll do my best and TRY to get these passed on to Duncan:thumbup:

 

[Cambertree]

Cambertree - Oh man...those are just beautiful - Both of those Joseph Rodgers!!!! Oh that Stag! and The JR Scratted Hawkbill is just amazing - what a find! The others are themselves - stunners.

Thanks Duncan, high praise coming from you!

Yes, 1500international has some amazing pruners. :thumbup:

I would have each and everyone in my collection in a Heart Beat.:thumbup:

...I have done much research on that new Tang Stamp Augie...sorry to say it's a Fake...this is bad news for you...burden myself to take that Fake off your hands... also... sent to me so I can deal with this situation.

I know this is tough, but I will somehow manage...as I am always here to support my knife friends through times like this.

I bet you would, you ol' rogue! LOL!

But seriously mate, one thing that struck me about these old Pruners (and the Rope knives too) was what a gulf there was between seeing pictures of them, and actually handling them.

I mean it's a nice moment receiving any knife and they all have an almost unique feel to them which you can't predict from photos, but wow - these things are some mighty tools, more like a small folding billhook, than a pocket knife.

The quality of build and relationship between the handle and blade curves was very refined.

There's also something very compelling about seeing a good work knife that's been carried and served well for a long time, and is still ready to soldier on.

I love how on these three, the only thing that led to them being set aside as a working tool is that the tip has been sharpened back so far clear of the handle when closed, that it's potentially dangerous.

But the original users didn't stop using them just after the tip would no longer snugly nest in the handle, you can see they kept using them for quite a while thereafter, looking at how much sharpening wear is on the tip. And they must have been enjoyed for years, and then retired as tools quite regretfully judging by how well they were looked after, and how much they were used.

 

[waynorth]

Cambertree, your posting of 1500s Scratted JR, reminded me that I had not posted a similar one in my collection. This one is 4 7/8".
Scratting achieved an advanced stage of artistry on these Hawkbills, before it disappeared from production knives, ca. 1911.

There is a slight taper to the backspring, and a flush and clean joint.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Did I just see what I just saw
Oh Charlie- That is absolutely mind blowing, I honestly would not believe that one existed in such amazing condition.
Interestingly enough - that knife has what I would call the earlier stamp Font - and with that beautiful Scratting you would have expected to see the Stamping with England - it must be so close to the Border line of the 1891 change of law?

(pm sent Charlie )

 

[herder]

Cambertree, your posting of 1500s Scratted JR, reminded me that I had not posted a similar one in my collection. This one is 4 7/8".
Scratting achieved an advanced stage of artistry on these Hawkbills, before it disappeared from production knives, ca. 1911.

There is a slight taper to the backspring, and a flush and clean joint.

Wonderful examples Augie and Cambertree.
Waynorth, that Joseph Rodgers is an absolute knockout of a knife. It was listed as a "Coffee Pruner" in Rodgers catalogs from the turn of the twentieth century.

 

[waynorth]

I did a double take when I saw it as well, Duncan! I also put in a snipe for way more than I paid for it (phew!)!
Thanks for the info herder. I would love a copy of that Rodgers catalog!

 

[Cambertree]

Cambertree, your posting of 1500s Scratted JR, reminded me that I had not posted a similar one in my collection. This one is 4 7/8".
Scratting achieved an advanced stage of artistry on these Hawkbills, before it disappeared from production knives, ca. 1911.

There is a slight taper to the backspring, and a flush and clean joint.

Wow, Charlie - I actually found myself involuntarily catching and holding my breath while scrutinising these photos.

And that was just looking at the scratting! What a lovely piece of history and craftsmanship, in almost unbelievable condition.

It's interesting how much of a billhook type of profile there is to that full blade.

Thanks for sharing that incredible Hawkbill. :thumbup:

 

[Gevonovich]

What a divine piece, Charlie! Pure elegance. The piece really is unbelievable.

 

[Jack Black]

Congratulations Charlie, that is an incredible knife :thumbup:

I have long wondered about the tapering back springs, and the purpose of them. I spent long hours pondering the matter, and rooting through my old cutlery books, without turning up anything. I thought I'd asked Stan Shaw previously, but obviously not, or he'd misunderstood my previous enquiry, because he told me the answer straightaway. He said that in the days of the big Sheffield cutlery factories, a cutler would come into work, and there'd be a pile of hand-forged blades and springs already on his bench for him. However, the thickness of the springs varied, so they had to file them to the same width as the blades. The only place they have to be the same width is at the hinge though, and since they were all on stingy piece-work rates, and time was money, they'd taper the springs. I asked if that wouldn't mean that they then had to taper the covers. It would, said Stan, but it's a lot quicker to file wood or bone than steel.

 

[screened porch]

That's an informational gem, Jack.

 

[Jack Black]

That's an informational gem, Jack.

Thanks Jer, I'm glad I asked Stan or it'd probably have driven me mad eventually! :thumbup:

 

[herder]

Congratulations Charlie, that is an incredible knife :thumbup:

I have long wondered about the tapering back springs, and the purpose of them. I spent long hours pondering the matter, and rooting through my old cutlery books, without turning up anything. I thought I'd asked Stan Shaw previously, but obviously not, or he'd misunderstood my previous enquiry, because he told me the answer straightaway. He said that in the days of the big Sheffield cutlery factories, a cutler would come into work, and there'd be a pile of hand-forged blades and springs already on his bench for him. However, the thickness of the springs varied, so they had to file them to the same width as the blades. The only place they have to be the same width is at the hinge though, and since they were all on stingy piece-work rates, and time was money, they'd taper the springs. I asked if that wouldn't mean that they then had to taper the covers. It would, said Stan, but it's a lot quicker to file wood or bone than steel.

Great answer Jack from Stan Shaw and I have also often thought about tapered back springs. I certainly accept that some back springs needed to be filed to properly fit the blade width, but I also believe that back springs on some European knives were intentionally tapered for aesthetic reasons. Many French and Belgian folding knives from the 1800s had very noticeable tapered back springs which usually tapered smaller towards the back of the handle and provided an interesting look, along with many other details. A picture enclosed shows a very pronounced example in which the back spring tapers from .210 to .13 inches and represents a 38% change in only a 3-1/2 inch length, pretty dramatic.
I have also seen several English folders from high end companies which have back springs that taper the opposite (wider to the back of the handle) and can't help but to think that many of these were done on purpose. Enclosed is an example from A. J. Jordan that has a tapered back spring which changes from .15 at the front to .2 inches at the back with a resulting change of 25% in a 3-1/2 inch length. Just like the blades, most back springs were made for specific handles and model types and it seems a bit hard to believe that spring makers, who were also skilled in their trade would have been that far off in sizing their springs for specific knives. Just my random thoughts...