Public Apology..

agree w/tombstone and some of the others, but it al comes down to this - UNLESS the knife is some kinda personal gift/etc (ie ernie emerson makes ya a one of a kind something or other, to commemorate your 20th wedding anniversary,and gives ya the thing, or some other wild story) if the situation warrants, no prob w/selling

and, actually, in extraordinary circumstances, anything is fair game to be sold, w/in reason of course, imho

if ya pays the $$, its YOURS to do with as ya want, irregardless of the maker, etc what he went thru, etc

if the market crashes, and i'm broke tomorrow, and i gotta put groceries on the table, things gotta go, in order of importance to me - will sell my BM 710 before my ralph mini maxx, but, if it meant have knife/go hungry? the knife goes.................

like i said, if ya put up the $$, its yours, to do with as ya please...irregardless of the makers wishes - if its such a big deal to him, he could always buy it back, or never deal w/ya again, but other than that dont see what his beef would be.........and if he's a big enuff bud to do ya favors like making it for ya free/engraving/etc, i bet he would understand........

peace

sifu
 
Boys you have missed the point entirely.
First point. The facts as Jerry has states never happened. Read the emails, I'll be glad to send them. He's already doing what he does best and shifted the attention to his deceptive ways to something that didn't happen. Hell, Jerry I'll forward you the emails, because your memory don't work for spit.

Keith, isn't this about the place you tell what you read in the correspondance between Jerry and I?
Jerry even forgot where he got the 4" DA in the first place. His original order was with Larry at Bladeart for a 3-1/2" SE/DA, Larry asked me if I would drop ship it to Jerry. Not a problem, do it all the time. I told him monday week. He told Jerry I'd ship it out on monday. I emailed Jerry and told him it would be a week later than what LarryB told him. Jerry's first email to me was to ask if he had to wait a week longer, could he have a 4" SE/DA as that was what he really wanted. Not a problem Jerry. I have 4 in frame right now. I'll let LarryB know and I'll change your order. That's where Jerry's memory kicks in, because less than a week after he got the 4" DA he had it up for sale. I thought something must be wrong with the knife so I did email him. He said he loved it. (Now I'm getting tired of telling this.) Get the email correspondance and see who said what. Jerry makes it up as he goes. Period.

Having said that, here's the second point.

Mike here's what you said in an earlier post.

Or, if the maker would have given me the knife as a present, or engraved my name on it or personalized it in any fashion, that would have been different - it was the same style he would have made for anyone, there was no customization/personalization of the knife.

This piece was highly personalized right up until a few days before it was shipped. And there were no extra charges
for any of it. That was my choice because I was trying to make certain that Jerry got a special knife. I never changed my position during what turned out to be 3 knives I built to get him that special one!!!!! That's right you all thought the only knives involved were the 4" DA and the last one.
That's the problem I have with Jerry, he makes it up as he goes and I don't think for one minute that because everyone got on his tail in those other threads and he apologized that he's changed his stripes. That's just my opinion, if I'm wrong time will tell.
But I firmly believe if you state in writting something is fact here on BF, you darn well better be able to back it up. I can.
 
larry,
i can't believe you..what is up with you?
you be sure to post your ORGINATING E-MAILS as well..i am tired of this bull...YOU ARE SQUARLEY wrong and while there may be some butt kissers here to speak up for you..many clearly have not...which is good to see

send me the e-mails..i want to see them..i will compare them with what i have...YOU MADE THE OFFER to make the knife..not for me..but, because YOU WROTE ME IN AN E-MAIL that you had a customer that wanted the 4 inch and if i took it off the market and sent it to you, you would make me another knife..you don't remember that?

i sent you the knife immediately..and you kept giving me reasons why the knife was taking so long..ONLY after i e-mailed you asking about the progress..NONE of your REASONS (i did not say excuse) was because i was SO DEMANDING and ever-changing..i even remember you saying you had other projects going (all after you were supposed to be well underway with my knife)..why don't you include those too?

you are NOT EVEN MAN ENOUGH to write me personally to discuss this prior to or since posting this garbage..so, what is up with that?

people here have spoken larry and you are CLEARLY WRONG..NONE of what you done on the knife was for me..it was because it took you over 10 weeks to make a knife you promised me in 2..

enclose that e-mail too..where you say you were doing this because it had taken you so long to deliver..remember?

as far as you never selling me another knife..that is your choice..there are other makers that will gladly take my $600+

you are right..time will tell...2 custom makers have put you in the dust with their customer service and promises that THEY KEPT!

i have additionally, done 5 knife deals since the unfortunate strider episode and ALL were absolutely thrilled with my prompt service and the items they got..i can provide those references to those that want them..some were even brave enough to post it !
 
Jerry,

You might need to watch what you say. No one has spoken against Larry. The ones of us debating about selling a knife you own, were speaking totally in general. We don't even know all the circumstances involved with the deal between you and Larry. Larry is an outstanding maker with an excellent reputation. He has always answered my e-mails and question very promptly and always seemed genuinely happy to help me out. Don't try and turn the posts saying it's ok to sell a knife you own against Larry, because none of the people posted aimed them at him or intended it to be against him. I intentionally made my post clear that my comments concerned knives in general, and I did not know all the details and didn't have any desire to get in the middle of any 1 specific case. Don't twist people's posts and words to fit your agenda.

JR
 
JR,
WHAT AGENDA? I HAD ONE ONLY (LOOK AT THE TITLE OF MY THREAD) and that ONE WAS to step up to the plate and apologize to EVERYONE that was somehow affected by my recent posts/actions...

what do i get for it?
a maker coming here complaining how i sold a knife that he made especially for me (FLAT LIE)..HIS REFUSAL TO ADMIT THE WHOLE FACTS..and his expert knowledge of what makes me tick..

EVERYONE here preaches about trying to work things out first...
DID HE TRY IT? NO
DOES HE ABOUT IT HERE? NO!
everyone is concerned about NOT hurting HIS feelings..

what about the originator of the post?
just because he makes knives, doesn't mean he walks on water or can not make a mistake..he is after all, human.

HE DOESN'T know ANYTHING about me (he sure CLAIMS to) nor i him..yet, he is allowed to come in my post, speak negatively about me and my morals and continue to post negative comments....NOT a SINGLE ONE OF YOU bring that to his attention..

I NEVER SAID HE wasn't a decent maker..aimed anything at him..or tried to make ANYTHING my agenda..HE is the one with the AGENDA..this was an apology thread plain and simple..HE tried to turn it into something more..it looks like he was successful..

lastly,
i don't see another forum member (name here) submitting an apology to everyone, trying to make things right..even if he was considering it, why should he..? if this is what he has to look forward to..VERY SAD
 
First off I want to let everyone know that I agree that once you own something it is totally up to you aas to what you do with it.

Now, to address some other issues. Jerry, you say that Larry promised you a knife in 2 weeks and didn't deliver for 2 months. It is impossible to deliver a knife to someone in 2 weeks when that person has not made up his mind as to what handle material he wants on the knife. With about a week left in February, you were still waffling on what material you wanted used on the knife. At that point Larry emailed you and said that he had had enough and was going to make the choice for you and that it would be a surprise. Even 5 days before you got the knife you were still emailing Larry asking him to make changes to the knife. You wanted him to engrave the firing button. How can someone deliver a knife in 2 weeks when the person getting the knife still hasn't made up his mind on handle material for 5 weeks.

Also, at no time did I ever see that Larry took more than a couple of days to get back to you after you emailed him. Since he let you know that he was very busy and way behind in making knives I would think that you would be very understanding of him being a little tardy in getting back to you. He can not sit by his computer waiting for an email from you so that he can get back to you immediately.

Jerry, you have the right to do what you want with that knife. You do not have the right to badmouth Larry for things he did not do. It was no ones fault but yours that the knife took as long as it did, except at the very end when Larry was a few days late in shipping out the knife. Even then, if he had shipped the knife to you when he first had planned you would not have gotten youe engraved firing button.

It is my opinion that Larry bent over backwards to accommodate you. If you consider this ass kissing then so be it. I really don't much care.
 
Originally posted by dson
This piece was highly personalized right up until a few days before it was shipped
Originally posted by underdogizhere
...[Larry Davidson] coming here complaining how i sold a knife that he made especially for me (FLAT LIE)..HIS REFUSAL TO ADMIT THE WHOLE FACTS...
Originally posted by KWM
Even 5 days before you got the knife you were still emailing Larry asking him to make changes to the knife. You wanted him to engrave the firing button.

The above quotes illustrate a direct contradiction.

Jerry called Larry Davidson a liar for having indicated that the knife was "highly personalized." KWM, who read the e-mails forwarded to him by Larry Davidson, indicated that the knife was indeed highly personalized, or, "made especially for" Jerry.

One of three things is true:
1) Larry Davidson was dishonest in his posts on this matter, and then altered the content of the e-mails he forwarded to Kieth,
2) Kieth is lying in order to defend Larry Davidson, or
3) The knife was indeed a personalized special order custom for Jerry.

So...

Jerry, are you lying again?
 
Jerry,

You ass ign the wrong motives to LD's initial post IMO. He said your apology is false in his opinion and that you are a leaky vessel and leave J-Man outta it. I could care less if the apology is false or otherwise. Judging from my work w/ Larry you got a hell of a bargain. Whether you chiseled him via falsehood to make a quick buck is between you and him but is the claim I see as central. Not who started the issue. Feel free to clarify if I am off-base on this.

You vacillated on options (several times in a day at times), got an increase in blade length, dual bolsters, nuggeting, and an engraved button for no cost over a standard plain-jane 3.5" SE and rush work as well...Whatta bargain... (You sound like a complete PITA customer even if aboveboard.)

Unless I misunderstand this, you received all this "added value" for no charge by claiming need in the line of duty and thus playing off LD's good nature.

You then claimed expedience and sold the knife off at a profit.

I can see why he might be offended and refuse the apology even if you absolutely retain the right to dispose of your property as you see fit. He has the right to be skanked due to you jukeing him in the bootie on the added value. He never said you couldn't sell it just that by doing so you abused him and had taken advantage of his good will. It does appear to some forumites as if you traded your position or claim to need for added value and then quickly made a profit from said value. How it began is not relevant in the overall process or to the end result. You seem to be reading too much into this. He won't sell you another knife and you have other great makers to work with. He probably had to pipe up so no one else falls prey to the perceived method whereby you did the bootie-jukeing.

Just MHO.

Take care,

-Sam.
 
keith,
did larry include the e-mails from him as well?
espeically the first one..WHERE HE ASKED ME FOR THE 4 inch KNIFE and his offer to make me whatever i wanted..?

It is impossible to deliver a knife to someone in 2 weeks when that person has not made up his mind as to what handle material he wants on the knife.
my e-mails asking for changes only concerned the handle material from green bone to something else..he said he didn't have anything laying around that i asked for..so, that is why those e-mails were back and forth..but, 2 months..come on keith, if you buy that..i have some swamp land in florida..interested?


Even 5 days before you got the knife you were still emailing Larry asking him to make changes to the knife
THE ONLY THING I PERSONALLY asked for was the work on the firing button..it is the size of an eraser head..how long does that take?


It was no ones fault but yours that the knife took as long as it did, except at the very end when Larry was a few days late in shipping out the knife.
um, wrong again keith..THE ONLY CHANGES I ASKED was in handle material and every time i asked..he didn't have it..so how does that count? additionally, you did not see HIS 2 e-mails dated a couple week apart, where he said the knife was shipping this week?


So...
Jerry, are you lying again?
wulf, where do you come with that statement? why do i have to lie?
I AM the one that posted here in the first place..to apologize. not to defend myself for selling a knife..

i really don't care anymore what you guys think..it is useless..many members don't stand a chance..unless, they tow the line, agree with what most everyone says and don't express their opinion TOO openly.
my only regret was sending the 4 inch back to him at HIS request..i should have just sold it and been done with it..

even the owner of another forum feels that i have been ganged up on (his own words..in his e-mail to me) and not been given a fair shake...but, isn't about to say it publicly, because of his financial risk involved and pressure from other people.
 
:rolleyes:
OK maybe I was wrong about that glad your back stuff.
 
Unless I misunderstand this, you received all this "added value" for no charge by claiming need in the line of duty and thus playing off LD's good nature.


sammy,
that is ALL wrong..i told him when he e-mailed me why i was selling the knife..i didn't like the blade to handle ratio and the blade was too thin for the width of the handles..HE then told me he had a CUSTOMER that WANTED a 4 INCH, which he wasn't making anymore..and if i shipped the knife to him so he could sell it, and he would make me another knife and throw in the goddies you mentioned..THAT WAS HIS OFFER, NOT MINE nor REQUEST..so, who gained from this..i can buy BOTH of us..but NOT just me!


You then claimed expedience and sold the knife off at a profit

wrong again...i NEVER discussed my moving the knife with anyone..i just did it because of MY personal reasons..

Whether you chiseled him via falsehood to make a quick buck is between you and him but is the claim I see as central

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN..NO FORUM MEMBER that i have seen on here makes a buck selling their custom knives..all sell for less than what they paid retail for..look what the guy was selling the knife for..$500?
how is anyone making a buck on that? i paid $650 for the original 4 inch knife!

He won't sell you another knife. He probably had to pipe up so no one else falls prey to the perceived method whereby you did the bootie-jukeing.
wrong again, WHATEVER his reason is..THIS AIN'T IT...

Sammy,
these are the clearifications you asked for..and how it went down.

Gus,
you too?
again..why isn't anyone reading BOTH posts..?
 
Originally posted by underdogizhere
wulf, where do you come with that statement? why do i have to lie?
I AM the one that posted here in the first place..to apologize. not to defend myself for selling a knife..

Jerry,
A moment ago I asked you if you were lying again. Please answer the question with a "yes" or a "no."

Understand that a "no" would imply that Larry Davidson falsely stated that you had requested specific, personalized custom features - that he, in fact, is lying.

Now, please understand that I really hate being a part of this unpleasantness. In fact, if you go back to page 1 you'll see that I was the first forumite here to accept your apology. I was content simply to move on and give you the benefit of the doubt. I would have shaken your hand and bought you a beer if I could have. Unfortunately, however, it seems the question of honesty has once again been raised, and it needs to be addressed.

Just out of curiosity, is the SE D/A in question the one you offered me in a trade a few weeks ago?
 
Understand that a "no" would imply that Larry Davidson falsely stated that you had requested specific, personalized custom features - that he, in fact, is lying.
NO..besides trying to change the handles to SOMETHING HE HAD IN STOCK..the only thing i asked SPECIFICALLY UPFRONT was if he could put an engraved firing button on the knife at the very end..2 months later


Just out of curiosity, is the SE D/A in question the one you offered me in a trade a few weeks ago?
NO again...i had 2 of his knives, a carbon fiber SE that i needed to replace with manual action ones..LES ROBERTSON (have traded a few times DIRECT with him) got it for a manual TERZOULA..as i was trading around to try to acquire manual knives.



***to save myself, edited for spelling ONLY***
 
Jerry, that is BS. You did not ask for any handle material. You kept asking Larry to look around and find something you would like. He made you the Green Bone handle that you first asked for. Then when you said that if he hadn't finished the Green Bone yet could you change your mind he let you do so even though he had finished profiling the handle material you requested. He then found some material that looked good in pictures, but that had a diamond pattern that was to big to look good as a handle. You then asked him about leather material that looked like Ray skin. Larry went and got some real Ray skin and you said that that is what you would go with. Then you emailed him that you were concerned that the Ray Skin would not be durable enough so what did he think of using fossilized Giraffe bone. That was after telling him to go ahead and use the Ray skin. At this point Larry had to tell you that he had had enough of you changing your mind and that he would make the decision for you and surprise you with it. At no time did you ask him for a specific material that he could not get, you just came up with possibilities that you would change the next day. It was not Larry's inability to get you the material you wanted, it was your inability to make up your mind that caused the delay, and yes that did lead to it taking two months for you to get your knife. Within three weeks of you getting the knife you had still not made up your mind what you wanted. Once Larry made the decision to pick the handle material for you he had to get the material and finish the knife. To do that and get you the knife in three weeks (not two months) is not to darn bad in my book.

It is also not true that you only asked Larry to do some engraving on the button. You also continuously asked him to find something special for the handle material.

You ask how long it should take to engrave a firing button. I guess if Larry had absolutely nothing else to do but work on your special requests it would only take a day. The fact that you had the knife within five days of making that request also seems pretty darn good.

I have no idea who the forum head is that thinks you are being picked on, but I am pretty darn sure it is not Eric. If it is he sure has changed his tune about you in the last little while. And before you start PMSing about my posting this, it was you that brought it up.
 
This sure is a long thread and I'm not helping.

I have rethought my position on this.
No one should resell their custom knifes.

That way, the time I spend each day reading the messages in the:
KnifeExchange>Custom Knives for Sale>Individuals
portion of this board could be used to check out all those X-rated sites on the internet my friends have been telling me about.
 
Jerry, that is BS. You did not ask for any handle material.

um, keith YES I DID..he said he didn't have it..i asked for mammoth ivory or something exotic like that..and i WROTE HIM, if it COST ANYTHING extra, i would pay it!

You kept asking Larry to look around and find something you would like.

WRONG..he told me HE WOULD LOOK AROUND and find something..when he DID NOT HAVE WHAT I ASKED FOR after HE SAID I COULD CHANGE THE BONE!

He then found some material that looked good in pictures, but that had a diamond pattern that was to big to look good as a handle.
WRONG..WHAT ACTUALLY happened was, he told me he wanted to do something really different (effort acknowledged and appreciated)...he said he saw was going to a machine shop the weekend and would look for something, if i remember correctly..days passed, no e-mail..so i wrote him asking if he found anything..he said no..
he said let him think..i e-mailed him some days later and he said how about armor plate..i wrote him back saying that the stuff was TOO HEAVY..he replied that he could cut it down and hollow it out to make it weight-worthy..i said ok..days passed no response..i e-mailed again, he said no work..too big a patterns and no diamonds would show up...

KEITH, YOU ARE WAY OFF BASE..and WRONG...i did ask him specifically for a handle material and he said he had NONE OF WHAT I ASKED FOR...so, since he was going to do the other stuff that he offered..i though ok, fine..but, that is how the other handles stuff started...HE SAID he would find something cool..so i kept inquiring..GEEZ!
that is asking for sooo much personalization..that is how it happened!

you HAVE NOT ONCE mentioned how i always ended my e-mails with THANK YOU or stating, if any EXTRA cost..i would pay..which i did REGULARLY!
 
...to ban malcontents when they start screwing up, all of these forums would be much nicer and politer.

Sure, some toes would get stepped on, but BFD!

I'm not talking about a 'morality police', just someone that has the balls to shut down this type of BS! :(

This will go on and on, as long as we let the bullsh*tter's have their say...

It's not good for us, or for our hobby, to have 'loose cannons' running amok here...

We all come out looking like dipshits when we allow this to continue.

Bans don't need to be permanant, but then again...maybe that's not such a bad idea!

Mel
 
mel,
again...you are right.

THIS TIME, I WILL LISTEN..i know what happened and so does davidson..whether he likes it or not..END OF STORY.


wulf, this is for you..
davidson STATED PUBLICLY that he would even send the e-mails(i want his as well as mine)to me..if i asked? Well, i asked..and he has yet to do it..

now, who is lying?
NOT HIM, because he is a knifemaker and does not have time to send it to me..RIGHT?
MY POINT EXACTLY..!
 
Jerry, I agree with you that Larry should not have brought this issue into this thread. I also agree that you have the right to do whatever you please with a knife that is yours. It is also my opinion that you only complained about the things that you say Larry did because you were pissed that he kind of bushwacked you. Still , I believe that Larry bent over backwards to help you get the knife you really wanted and that you are mostly to blame for the amount of time it took. Some of the delay can be attributed to Larry, but you have to realize that he had lot's of other knives to get ready and that he could not work only on yours. He explained to you more than once that he was way behind in getting a bunch od balis finished. If you were any kind of a reasonable customer you would understand that and cut him some slack. In your emails you seemed very happy that Larry was busy and stated that you understood that there could be some delays. Then on this thread you whine about getting your knife late.

It also seems that Larry was not only trying to get one of his knives of the second hand market when he offered to take the 4" SE/DA back and sell it to someone else that he had that wanted one. You yourself posted that you were not happy with the blade to handle ratio and that the blade was to thin for a 4 incher. Larry was also helping you out and his offer to get you that special knife was good customer service as far as I am concerned.

If I am not mistaken, you have brought up these complaints because you feel that Larry was unfair in the things he posted about you. It may also be that you are not really angry about the delay and unanswered emails, but are using them as a way of getting back at Larry for what you think is undeserved criticism. Then again, what I have just posted might be psychological claptrap and I might be full of shyte. According to a lot of the people I know it is most definitely the later.


Edited because I added some words where they did not belong.
 
I certainly don't have enough information to come to a definitive conclusion here. Quite frankly, I just wish this whole unpleasant episode would end.

I wish every forumite and knifeknut was completely honest had a perfect memory...

Sadly, I just don't think much will get resolved in this thread. I doubt anyone will admit he was wrong or dishonest.

This sucks.
 
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