Public perception of people carrying knives

[Lee48]

Well, daggers were designed as a weapon and it's a knife, not a sword.

Not all modern folders were designed as a weapon. Most Spydercos were designed as one-hand opening, single blade working knives. They're modern folders but my little Dragonfly is certainly no weapon. I actually think I could use my normally carried Pilot Precise V5 pen as a more deadly weapon than the Dragonfly.

But there again is the problem. People today are unable to differentiate between what is a weapon and what is a tool. When I was a kid, I owned a switchblade. It was sold as a fisherman's knife so the fisherman could open it without putting down his fishing gear. My dad bought it for me before they became illegal. Perception changed...the tool became a weapon in the public's eye and there's always a politician out there wanting to make points with the electorate. Eventually everything becomes illegal.

 

[Ankerson]

I carry a modern style, with a pocket clip, and part of the reason IS the self-defense aspect. Better to have something rather than nothing if STHF. I make sure it's largely unnoticeable, by both not attracting undue attention to it and by use of an untucked shirt which hides the pocket clip in most situations. If I'm entering a business or place where "no knives allowed", such as Church, I just slip it fully into pocket and go about my business, unless it's a courthouse or similar. To attempt to carry anything into those is just stupidity.
Back in the early 1980's I grew up in a rural area, and it wasn't at all unusual for farm boys to carry a knife-even to school, including the Buck 110 in a belt sheath. I can remember me AND the "other guy", removing our 110's and handing them to our friends so we could settle our differences with fists behind the school. We never even considered using knives. My kids, who walked through school metal detectors here in our Midwestern city of 100k+ people, were amazed at that story.
Perception has changed, no doubt about it, but some things are still considered just fine. Swiss Army knives and Leathermans are good examples, as is the aforementioned "Grandpa styles".
I generally don't explain what the knife is for, truthfully, I've never been asked. I don't wave it wildly about, I've pulled it twice to ward off would be robbers in the cab I drive and that was all it took, but in all fairness, the second time I had a tire iron in my other hand.

I carried a Buck 110 on my belt to school everyday in middle and high school and nobody said a word, but that was in the 70's and early 80's.

And it was in Maryland, out in the County, more Northern Md, but still MD.

 

[jackknife]

I carried a Buck 110 on my belt to school everyday in middle and high school and nobody said a word, but that was in the 70's and early 80's.

And it was in Maryland, out in the County, more Northern Md, but still MD.

In Maryland farm country, it's still a common occurrence to see a large folding knife. Under the Maryland 'pen knife' law, there is no limit on the size of a folding knife you can legally carry. The law states that if it is NOT a switchblade, then it comes under the pen knife category, and there is no size limit stated in the law. You can carry a Opinel number 12 if you so wish, or a folding machete in your back pocket.

But…and here is the insane part, it is illegal to conceal ANY fixed blade knife. So while a folding machete is legal, a Buck Hartsook with a 1 7/8th inch blade is technically illegal. Go figure.

 

[Ankerson]

In Maryland farm country, it's still a common occurrence to see a large folding knife. Under the Maryland 'pen knife' law, there is no limit on the size of a folding knife you can legally carry. The law states that if it is NOT a switchblade, then it comes under the pen knife category, and there is no size limit stated in the law. You can carry a Opinel number 12 if you so wish, or a folding machete in your back pocket.

But…and here is the insane part, it is illegal to conceal ANY fixed blade knife. So while a folding machete is legal, a Buck Hartsook with a 1 7/8th inch blade is technically illegal. Go figure.

Yeah, I remember that. LOL

But then fixed blades are belt knives carried in a sheath so I never cared.

 

[RedLynx]

In Maryland farm country, it's still a common occurrence to see a large folding knife. Under the Maryland 'pen knife' law, there is no limit on the size of a folding knife you can legally carry. The law states that if it is NOT a switchblade, then it comes under the pen knife category, and there is no size limit stated in the law. You can carry a Opinel number 12 if you so wish, or a folding machete in your back pocket.

But…and here is the insane part, it is illegal to conceal ANY fixed blade knife. So while a folding machete is legal, a Buck Hartsook with a 1 7/8th inch blade is technically illegal. Go figure.

But surely a fixed knife hanging from your belt isn't considered concealed? I've heard that some of MDs knife laws can be rough, but they sound less rough than I expected.

 

[jackknife]

But surely a fixed knife hanging from your belt isn't considered concealed? I've heard that some of MDs knife laws can be rough, but they sound less rough than I expected.

No, open on your belt is fine. No problem. It's just the craziness of the law that lets you carry a large folding knife with a 6 inch blade, but will bust you for a tiny neck knife like a hartsook. Plain nuts. But a Buck special open on the belt is fine, as long as it's not concealed. Maryland knife laws are nuts, but actually pretty liberal in that pretty much any knife can be carried, as long as it doesn't violate the 'switchblade' law.

 

[riversidedep]

No, it is not. Knives have always been tools; and swords were weapons. There is a difference and the advertising is immaterial. The closest a knife comes to being a weapon is the kitchen steak knife, since those are actually designed to rend flesh; and, those are usually not the products marketed towards youngish would-be mall ninjas. Most of the so called "tactical" knives out there are designed primarily for wood processing or general utility. They are too large, too heavy, too complicated and too awkward to be used as weapons, except under the most desperate of circumstances; under the same conditions you would be pressing rocks, sticks and just about any other tool known to man, into service in an effort to protect your endangered hide.



n2s.

I've seen this argument pop up on Bladeforums a few times over the years. Is a knife a weapon or a tool? The thing is, a weapon IS a tool....

 

[Lee48]

Just to be sure, in no way am I putting down tactical knives when I say people cannot differentiate between a weapon and a tool anymore. I might be a dinosaur in age but I like knives, all kinds of knives. I own ZT, Cold Steel, SOG and other military/tactical styles of knives as well as a lot of traditional folding pocket knives and I like them all. To me, a knife is just a knife and a knife is a useful tool. I'm also not against weaponry. I have a concealed handgun permit and I carry either a small .38 revolver or small 9mm auto daily. But I don't whip out my handgun around other people and I also wouldn't consider flipping open my knife in public. It's common courtesy, common respect for others and common sense. All concepts that are no longer common.

 

[not2sharp]

I've seen this argument pop up on Bladeforums a few times over the years. Is a knife a weapon or a tool? The thing is, a weapon IS a tool....

Or, better said, just about any tool can be pressed into service as an improvised weapon. But, this is not just about semantics. The bottom line is that if we wanted to make a cutting edge weapon we could easily do so and the optimal design would be very different from the vast majority of knives used today. The fact that they are not so designed reflects the reality that our knives are simply not intended for a weapons use.

n2s

 

[Ankerson]

Just to be sure, in no way am I putting down tactical knives when I say people cannot differentiate between a weapon and a tool anymore. I might be a dinosaur in age but I like knives, all kinds of knives. I own ZT, Cold Steel, SOG and other military/tactical styles of knives as well as a lot of traditional folding pocket knives and I like them all. To me, a knife is just a knife and a knife is a useful tool. I'm also not against weaponry. I have a concealed handgun permit and I carry either a small .38 revolver or small 9mm auto daily. But I don't whip out my handgun around other people and I also wouldn't consider flipping open my knife in public. It's common courtesy, common respect for others and common sense. All concepts that are no longer common.

I highlighted the important part in red.

You are so dead on with that in today's society.

 

[Ankerson]

I've seen this argument pop up on Bladeforums a few times over the years. Is a knife a weapon or a tool? The thing is, a weapon IS a tool....

That doesn't matter..

What really matters is how OTHER people see them and that is the real point and MOST of the problem as has been pointed out in this thread.

It doesn't matter how we see them or what we think, it really doesn't in the large picture.

It's how the majority sees them that matters.

So the best thing we can do is use common sense when we have to use our knives.

 

[stabman]

You are talking to someone who really knows how to cook here, you will never win this one about steak,

Personal preference.
To me, you cook it wrong. Full stop.

You won't win either.

 

[ocnLogan]

I've used my knives in pubic too many times to count. Yet I've never had a bad reaction by the public. I take a knife out, cut what needs to be cut, handout it away. And I don't carry a knife that looks like a weapon. Yes, it's a free country, but there is still limits on what is polite behavior, which is much different than illegal behavior. All it will take is the one right person to get PO'ed enough to write a letter toothier senator or congressmen, and that letter could get into the hands of a politician looking for a cause to make points with constituents.

Responsible behavior in public with the right tool can go a long way for a positive public view. But flashing an inappropriate knife to slash open a bag of hot dog buns in front of a crowd not only makes you look like an idiot, but it's bad for all of us who love knives and want to be able for our kids to enjoy them as well years down the road.

Knife owners and carries need to clean up their own act, and start with responsible behavior.

Just to be sure, in no way am I putting down tactical knives when I say people cannot differentiate between a weapon and a tool anymore. I might be a dinosaur in age but I like knives, all kinds of knives. I own ZT, Cold Steel, SOG and other military/tactical styles of knives as well as a lot of traditional folding pocket knives and I like them all. To me, a knife is just a knife and a knife is a useful tool. I'm also not against weaponry. I have a concealed handgun permit and I carry either a small .38 revolver or small 9mm auto daily. But I don't whip out my handgun around other people and I also wouldn't consider flipping open my knife in public. It's common courtesy, common respect for others and common sense. All concepts that are no longer common.

I highlighted the important part in red.

You are so dead on with that in today's society.

That doesn't matter..

What really matters is how OTHER people see them and that is the real point and MOST of the problem as has been pointed out in this thread.

It doesn't matter how we see them or what we think, it really doesn't in the large picture.

It's how the majority sees them that matters.

So the best thing we can do is use common sense when we have to use our knives.

+1000 to all of these comments.

My mindset is that we all need to be ambassadors of our hobby. I'd rather be viewed by others as a "skilled and knowledgable tool user", than as a "knife nut". Its all about building a relationship of trust, with the end goal of keeping things things we love legal. Just because something is legal now, doesn't mean that it will remain so, particularly if people keep "abusing" the legality so to speak. If some paranoid person gets upset at me cutting up my apple (I can't eat them without slicing them up, lost my front teeth in a boating accident as a youth, the dentist says the replacements will come out if I eat them like that), then I have no problem telling them to deal with it because its legal and legitimate use. But I'm not sitting in my meetings at work flipping my knife because I'm bored, because that might make people think the wrong things, and get them banned in the future.

I'm all for people carrying what they want, or showing off their wave openings/tactical stuff to their friends at home (or in a gym), but in my opinion everyone that is into knives should do their best to improve the publics image of knives (and knife users). So carry your folding machetes responsibly people .

 

[stabman]

The weapon aspect of the modern knife is the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.

Like it or not, the so called modern knife is a design that is a weapon first and for most.

When long-time members of a knife forum have bought into this mentality, it makes me sad.
If they have somehow found their way into this (wrong, in my not so humble opinion) way of thinking, then what hope is there for the public at large?

I had told my father (obviously a "young punk" at age 68...) about this mode of thought on here.
He was astounded; he could not believe it.
"How can people on a knife forum be so judgemental about knives? It doesn't make sense."

And I could not give a good answer, because it sure as hell does not.

 

[RedLynx]

When long-time members of a knife forum have bought into this mentality, it makes me sad.
If they have somehow found their way into this (wrong, in my not so humble opinion) way of thinking, then what hope is there for the public at large?

I had told my father (obviously a "young punk" at age 68...) about this mode of thought on here.
He was astounded; he could not believe it.
"How can people on a knife forum be so judgemental about knives? It doesn't make sense."

And I could not give a good answer, because it sure as hell does not.

I think I'm more with you on this one mate.

Edit: But I guess most of us don't seem to feel that way... although I could be reading the forum vibes incorrectly.

 

[stabman]

I think I'm more with you on this one mate.

Cool, good to know that some are.

 

[Tmack]

I'm not sure if I live in the wild west or something, but nobody looks twice at my knife /knives.

Granted most guys carry junk, but they still carry a knife. In my neighborhood at least

Now if your shirt comes over your gun, you will get a reaction, but a pocket knife, nope. In most of these stories, you would think it would be a gun instead of a knife the way people are reacting. I don't doubt the stories for a second, it's just strange. I live in Baltimore City, and kids will play outside while police are putting up caution tape around a shooting that JUST happened .
So from my experience, and hearing the many stories here, it would seem, where you live has Alot to do with the reactions. Like the guys from the country say, " I'm expected to carry a knife."

 

[Ankerson]

When long-time members of a knife forum have bought into this mentality, it makes me sad.
If they have somehow found their way into this (wrong, in my not so humble opinion) way of thinking, then what hope is there for the public at large?

I had told my father (obviously a "young punk" at age 68...) about this mode of thought on here.
He was astounded; he could not believe it.
"How can people on a knife forum be so judgemental about knives? It doesn't make sense."

And I could not give a good answer, because it sure as hell does not.

I won't go that far.

But I would agree that some knives are designed as weapons more so than tools to be cutting stuff with.

So even for people like us here I believe that some knives are or could be viewed as weapons more so than tools.

That said I have a variety of knives and I view them all as tools to cut stuff.

So if one is going to carry a knife and use it around people they should take their audience into consideration before the knife comes out and how they are going to use it.

Not everyone will think the same way about (enter knife here) as the one who is holding it.

 

[stabman]

But I would agree that some knives are designed as weapons more so than tools to be cutting stuff with.

Well yes...the classic example is a dagger.
I have never carried an EDC dagger for general utility. In fact, the only knives my grandfather ever thought of as weapons were in fact daggers.

I would have to concede that knives with brass knuckle type handles are probably not really intended for opening bags of potato chips either; I think my grandfather would have agreed (especially since most of those style had dagger blades ).

 

[Ankerson]

Well yes...the classic example is a dagger.
I have never carried an EDC dagger for general utility. In fact, the only knives my grandfather ever thought of as weapons were in fact daggers.

I would have to concede that knives with brass knuckle type handles are probably not really intended for opening bags of potato chips either; I think my grandfather would have agreed (especially since most of those style had dagger blades ).

Those and the various Karambits come to mind right off the bat.