Public perception of people carrying knives

I return from the forest and sometimes while waiting at the boat launch I get that look from the weekend town folks and wonder what they are more worried about, my beard or the fixed blade on my belt, perhaps its both. People are going soft.
 
Lee48 said:
Public perception has been molded by the popular media--both the entertainment and the information media. I fear too many people are unable to distinguish the reality from the fiction anymore due to this process in popular entertainment and I know the popular information media pushes points of view. As Jackknife pointed out, the cutlery business did itself no favors when companies started promoting their products based on how bada$$ they are with an in-your-face attitude. Once the media latched onto that concept, the reality of the situation was lost.

If you ask many people what they think they will tell you: knives are bad because I'm told they're bad on TV and I see them being bad on TV and in the movies... guns are bad because I'm told they're bad and I see them being bad.

I have carried a pocket knife every place I've gone, almost daily, for about 60 years and I've never cut anyone except myself in that period of time. Yet I find myself being perceived as a threat to public safety based on a 2.25 inch piece of metal that has a point on one end and is sharp on one side. For that I thank you, popular media. You have done the world a great service.
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Look how the knives are advertised by the knife companies, some dude usually dressed in black or camo trying to look tough holding the knife as a weapon.

Sure they are trying to appeal to the macho side of people and it works to sell knives, but it's not doing the industry any favors on how the general public sees them.
 
1. One of the problems facing perception of knives currently is the "weapon" gestalt modern knives have developed.
This is just one of the problems but a significant one.

2. Many or most of the knives sold currently are moderns. Many or most of the users of these knives like them better as knives for various good and valid reasons having nothing to do with weapons. Or it's Joe Schmoe and that's all they see to buy.

3. There is a significant minority of users which sees these knives as weapons or something with cool factor. There is a large chunk of the advertising aimed at these folks. There are knives which by there very appearance do the entire concept of a knife no good in the public eye. These works of Satan add to a "weapon" gestalt.

4. If you really think about it, even this significant minority has every right to do what they do. Their right to swing their arm stops at my face. If they want to play soldier or train for self defense that is their right.

5. This is a problem however, for people who use knives as tools. What are their rights? We have a right to not have our tools given a bad name. How do you weigh both group's rights.

And what are the rights of people who like moderns better as a tool. They did'n do nuffin'.

What's a mother to do?
 
davek14 said:
1. One of the problems facing perception of knives currently is the "weapon" gestalt modern knives have developed.
This is just one of the problems but a significant one.

There are an awful lot of knives that are designed as weapons out there to appeal to certian types of people.

2. Many or most of the knives sold currently are moderns. Many or most of the users of these knives like them better as knives for various good and valid reasons having nothing to do with weapons. Or it's Joe Schmoe and that's all they see to buy.

Sure, there are a lot of people who do see knives as tools and use them as such, or they collect.

3. There is a significant minority of users which sees these knives as weapons or something with cool factor. There is a large chunk of the advertising aimed at these folks. There are knives which by there very appearance do the entire concept of a knife no good in the public eye. These works of Satan add to a "weapon" gestalt.

Way too much of that type of advertising IMO.

4. If you really think about it, even this significant minority has every right to do what they do. Their right to swing their arm stops at my face. If they want to play soldier or train for self defense that is their right.

Very true.

5. This is a problem however, for people who use knives as tools. What are their rights? We have a right to not have our tools given a bad name. How do you weigh both group's rights.

Exactly.

And what are the rights of people who like moderns better as a tool. They did'n do nuffin'.

Good question.

What's a mother to do?

Dunno...
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Responses in blue. :)
 
The weapon aspect of the modern knife is the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.

Like it or not, the so called modern knife is a design that is a weapon first and for most. Just look at the advertising. Look at the hype put put by companies like Dark Ops and Cold steel. In the past decade the knife companies have moved to a very aggressive stance that includes paid spots in prime TV shows and movies, that use knives in a violet way. All you have to do is watch the forum the day after Mark Harmon uses a knife and the fan boys go nuts. What knife was it? How cool!.

The knife companies are exploiting this to the max, because they don't care about anything except the profit margin at the end of the month. They don't care if we, the knife community is alienating most of the rat of the populace. They are laughing all the way to the bank. But sooner or later, this is going to be a backlash. Hollywood has weaponized the knife handmade it "cool".

Here's a true incident I witnessed not long ago. My better half and I were working as volunteers at a political fundraising BBQ for a man named Dan Bongino, who was running for congress. It was out in the Maryland farming community, and we were setting up the BBQ, getting the coals ready, burgers and dogs out of the coolers. Some light knife work was needed to open packages and such. One of the young guys whips out a very large ZT something with a flourish and loud ka-chunk, and people stare. He's opening a bag of hot dog buns.

Another guy sees the knife and he flamboyantly ka-chunks out his own tiger striped ZT something and they stand there comparing their knives. All the while middle age and older citizens from this small town are gaping at them like they were nuts. One of the campaign managers sees whats going on and comes over and tells the two Jim Bowie wannabes to put the knives away or leave.

So two young guys with no common sense probably alienated 25 to 30 people or more, by their showing off with a inappropriate knife to open a bag of hot dog buns. Now these people were old time farmers, and during the afternoon I saw at least one beat up Schrade Old Timer put to use cutting open a plastic pack of mustard, or some other chore. These people were not city yuppy liberals. There were probably old Case pocket knives in their jeans as well as the Old Timers. But they were uncomfortable with the flashing of the ZT somethings. I'm sure they would be the first to complain about what they will call sheeple, if laws are put down to limit knives like they did in the U.K. and elsewhere in Europe. How you use your knife in public and what kind of knife you use is important, no matter if what to hear it or not. There's something called polite behavior, and it has nothing to do with acting like some movie character.

In 1958, Senator Estes Kefauver got a bill passed to outlaw the carry of switch blades. It was a response to the craze and popularity of what became the badge of something in the 1950's with young guys flicking those switchblades in public. They did it to themselves. Just like the knife consumer is doing now, with the help of the knife industry.

I've used my knives in pubic too many times to count. Yet I've never had a bad reaction by the public. I take a knife out, cut what needs to be cut, handout it away. And I don't carry a knife that looks like a weapon. Yes, it's a free country, but there is still limits on what is polite behavior, which is much different than illegal behavior. All it will take is the one right person to get PO'ed enough to write a letter toothier senator or congressmen, and that letter could get into the hands of a politician looking for a cause to make points with constituents.

Responsible behavior in public with the right tool can go a long way for a positive public view. But flashing an inappropriate knife to slash open a bag of hot dog buns in front of a crowd not only makes you look like an idiot, but it's bad for all of us who love knives and want to be able for our kids to enjoy them as well years down the road.

Knife owners and carries need to clean up their own act, and start with responsible behavior.
 
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I carry one...or two...so I don't have to use my .45 as often. My wife hates it when I open packages that way. :)
 
All I can say is I am glad I live where I do. Never had a bad experiance about what knife I carry.

Nobody even blinks at work when they borrow my Military to cut something. All I get is "How much did that cost" ?
 
I live in southern CA and have never gotten any heat for carrying or using knives. Hell, I had a guy with 2 fixed blades hanging off the back of his belt in front of me at the checkout lane at the grocery store, and no one gave him a second look...
It all depends on how you use it. I go in the Cold Steel forum occasionally (not often, they're a very Conservative bunch) and guys are always complaining about "sheeple" being afraid of their knives, the stories always being them inertia opening huge knives in public. And it's like "Yeah, people are nervous! You're waving a 6" blade around in a laundromat! If you used the damn thumb studs no one would care!"
What you carry can matter too. Lets use open-carry as an example: You always see news stories of guys going to restaurants carrying AR-15s then complaining when people freak out...They're in a freakin' Chipotle with a gun that looks like (especially to non-gun enthusiasts) a military grade assault weapon! The same applies to knives...if I'm at Del Taco and I see a guy carrying a 12" Bowie on his hip, I'm keeping an eye on him.
 
I haven't yet tried NCIS but I don't think Harmon's character ever uses the knife AS a weapon, does he? Notwithstanding I agree, I've seen the various "what knife was that" threads.

I can hardly blame average Joe Citizen for getting a tacticool blade... as Davek mentions above, it's usually all they're gonna see to buy. It takes a bit of digging to find the non-tacticool non-beefy knives. I don't think I've seen one like that at any retail store in a long time. Although usually sporting goods stores do have a small display of traditional knives featured prominently, to their credit.

As has already been discussed, modern media representation doesn't help.... Although, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't one of those guys who enjoys expertly choreographed knife/sword scenes. I must say that I am (although it doesn't influence my buying or carrying choices.)
 
dozer2025 said:
I live in southern CA and have never gotten any heat for carrying or using knives. Hell, I had a guy with 2 fixed blades hanging off the back of his belt in front of me at the checkout lane at the grocery store, and no one gave him a second look...
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That seems really surprising to me. Very cool, but surprising. I think a fellow forumite in the same area caught some flack for wearing a tshirt with the outline of a rifle on it... It made some of the fellow pedestrians very uncomfortable... can you imagine?
 
I carry a modern style, with a pocket clip, and part of the reason IS the self-defense aspect. Better to have something rather than nothing if STHF. I make sure it's largely unnoticeable, by both not attracting undue attention to it and by use of an untucked shirt which hides the pocket clip in most situations. If I'm entering a business or place where "no knives allowed", such as Church, I just slip it fully into pocket and go about my business, unless it's a courthouse or similar. To attempt to carry anything into those is just stupidity.
Back in the early 1980's I grew up in a rural area, and it wasn't at all unusual for farm boys to carry a knife-even to school, including the Buck 110 in a belt sheath. I can remember me AND the "other guy", removing our 110's and handing them to our friends so we could settle our differences with fists behind the school. We never even considered using knives. My kids, who walked through school metal detectors here in our Midwestern city of 100k+ people, were amazed at that story.
Perception has changed, no doubt about it, but some things are still considered just fine. Swiss Army knives and Leathermans are good examples, as is the aforementioned "Grandpa styles".
I generally don't explain what the knife is for, truthfully, I've never been asked. I don't wave it wildly about, I've pulled it twice to ward off would be robbers in the cab I drive and that was all it took, but in all fairness, the second time I had a tire iron in my other hand.
 
jackknife said:
The weapon aspect of the modern knife is the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.

Like it or not, the so called modern knife is a design that is a weapon first and for most. .....
Click to expand...

No, it is not. Knives have always been tools; and swords were weapons. There is a difference and the advertising is immaterial. The closest a knife comes to being a weapon is the kitchen steak knife, since those are actually designed to rend flesh; and, those are usually not the products marketed towards youngish would-be mall ninjas. Most of the so called "tactical" knives out there are designed primarily for wood processing or general utility. They are too large, too heavy, too complicated and too awkward to be used as weapons, except under the most desperate of circumstances; under the same conditions you would be pressing rocks, sticks and just about any other tool known to man, into service in an effort to protect your endangered hide.

n2s.
 
jackknife said:
The weapon aspect of the modern knife is the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.

Like it or not, the so called modern knife is a design that is a weapon first and for most. Just look at the advertising. Look at the hype put put by companies like Dark Ops and Cold steel. In the past decade the knife companies have moved to a very aggressive stance that includes paid spots in prime TV shows and movies, that use knives in a violet way. All you have to do is watch the forum the day after Mark Harmon uses a knife and the fan boys go nuts. What knife was it? How cool!.

The knife companies are exploiting this to the max, because they don't care about anything except the profit margin at the end of the month. They don't care if we, the knife community is alienating most of the rat of the populace. They are laughing all the way to the bank. But sooner or later, this is going to be a backlash. Hollywood has weaponized the knife handmade it "cool".

Here's a true incident I witnessed not long ago. My better half and I were working as volunteers at a political fundraising BBQ for a man named Dan Bongino, who was running for congress. It was out in the Maryland farming community, and we were setting up the BBQ, getting the coals ready, burgers and dogs out of the coolers. Some light knife work was needed to open packages and such. One of the young guys whips out a very large ZT something with a flourish and loud ka-chunk, and people stare. He's opening a bag of hot dog buns.

Another guy sees the knife and he flamboyantly ka-chunks out his own tiger striped ZT something and they stand there comparing their knives. All the while middle age and older citizens from this small town are gaping at them like they were nuts. One of the campaign managers sees whats going on and comes over and tells the two Jim Bowie wannabes to put the knives away or leave.

So two young guys with no common sense probably alienated 25 to 30 people or more, by their showing off with a inappropriate knife to open a bag of hot dog buns. Now these people were old time farmers, and during the afternoon I saw at least one beat up Schrade Old Timer put to use cutting open a plastic pack of mustard, or some other chore. These people were not city yuppy liberals. There were probably old Case pocket knives in their jeans as well as the Old Timers. But they were uncomfortable with the flashing of the ZT somethings. I'm sure they would be the first to complain about what they will call sheeple, if laws are put down to limit knives like they did in the U.K. and elsewhere in Europe. How you use your knife in public and what kind of knife you use is important, no matter if what to hear it or not. There's something called polite behavior, and it has nothing to do with acting like some movie character.

In 1958, Senator Simon Keefauver got a bill passed to outlaw the carry of switch blades. It was a response to the craze and popularity of what became the badge of something in the 1950's with young guys flicking those switchblades in public. They did it to themselves. Just like the knife consumer is doing now, with the help of the knife industry.

I've used my knives in pubic too many times to count. Yet I've never had a bad reaction by the public. I take a knife out, cut what needs to be cut, handout it away. And I don't carry a knife that looks like a weapon. Yes, it's a free country, but there is still limits on what is polite behavior, which is much different than illegal behavior. All it will take is the one right person to get PO'ed enough to write a letter toothier senator or congressmen, and that letter could get into the hands of a politician looking for a cause to make points with constituents.

Responsible behavior in public with the right tool can go a long way for a positive public view. But flashing an inappropriate knife to slash open a bag of hot dog buns in front of a crowd not only makes you look like an idiot, but it's bad for all of us who love knives and want to be able for our kids to enjoy them as well years down the road.

Knife owners and carries need to clean up their own act, and start with responsible behavior.
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As the old saying goes, you can't legislate common sense.

So what happens in the end is they make laws that end up being very restrictive as a reaction so it ends up hurting everyone in the end.

People do stupid things, that's just human nature and stupid people do more stupid things than the ave person will.

Throw in the macho aspect and things really get stupid in a real hurry.

Those 25 to 30 people at that party are going to remember what happened in a negative way and each one of them will tell 10 people and they will tell 10 people and so on.
 
kaotikross said:
If I'm entering a business or place where "no knives allowed", such as Church, I just slip it fully into pocket and go about my business,
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Just curious are they explicitly banned in your church? I carry my knife into my or any other church, there's never been any rules about that anywhere I've been.
 
not2sharp said:
No, it is not. Knives have always been tools; and swords were weapons. There is a difference and the advertising is immaterial. The closest a knife comes to being a weapon is the kitchen steak knife, since those are actually designed to rend flesh; and, those are usually not the products marketed towards youngish would-be mall ninjas. Most of the so called "tactical" knives out there are designed primarily for wood processing or general utility. They are too large, too heavy, too complicated and too awkward to be used as weapons, except under the most desperate of circumstances; under the same conditions you would be pressing rocks, sticks and just about any other tool known to man, into service in an effort to protect your endangered hide.

n2s.
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I feel most people who buy a knife primarily for the SD aspect do not really consider this. By that I mean, they don't really consider logically and thoroughly, the real world application of that knife as a weapon. So many "knife attacks" end up with the aggressor cutting himself with his own knife... it's pretty hard to maintain your grip on the handle, much less do anything else, with all of the blood. I believe this and a variety of other things aren't really considered. It's just a pointy thing that can go into flesh, and for most (not all) people who primarily carry for this reason, that's where it ends.
 
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