Quality Control Issues in General

"I'd like everything to show up within my tolerances but when you buy anything sight unseen you're taking that chance for the convenience of not picking it out personally."

A lot of good points here. Great topic. Only thing I have to add is unfortunatley for some of us, we have to purchase sight unseen because there is simply no where to buy these products where we live. I would any day out of the week go through everyone they had to find one I was happy with and I usually do. But if I have to order from online, I just cross my fingers and it usually, say 95% of time is good in my book.
 
VictorKilo said:
Unhappy customers will usually be the most vocal since everyone else is too busy enjoying their purchase to spend the time leaving positive feedback.
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That's the same everywhere.

People love to complain, hear drama, create drama, and draw attention to themselves anyway they can.

I have known many people over the years that if they weren't complaining about something they weren't talking. ;)

Bad news travels fast, good news not so much......
 
pbcg said:
You know, I agree. From the prospective of the worker you are absolutely right. Unfortunate but true. Personal pride in ones work isn't something you see all that often these days but I don't think it has to be that deep or complicated.
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Currently working on a payroll/wage issue that got messed up from the beginning....... For over a year now....... And all the research has been done through proper channels and checked out and it's still not fixed yet. ;)

And they wonder why I am not all on board with the company....... ;)

If the economy/job market was better I would have been gone along time ago....

I can't even transfer closer to home because I am FT and they don't want full timers in the district that is near home and won't even try to do anything...... And there are places so close that I could walk to work in 10 Mins........ Instead of driving 30 mins each way.

Pride in ones work in my case, that's really funny......
 
Gentlemen, let's stay on topic please.....thanks. :)
 
duro said:
Interesting, I had a new Alias with poor lock up and was simply told [by Benchmade] to mail it in. No offer to cover the shipping
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In my case, I emailed Benchmade and asked if they paid for shipping from me to them, and they sent me a pre-paid UPS shipping label. Maybe it was just because I asked, or perhaps the customer service person has discretion to pull the trigger when they so choose. But that small act of saving me the shipping cost made it an A+ experience for me - assuming the knife looks good when I receive it, which I anticipate.
 
Ankerson said:
They do it to draw attention to themselves or to stir up problems/drama on the forums.

When a phone call or email to the companies would solve the issue...
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While I agree there are many who do this, I've noticed something. It seems a public posting can, at times, get you better treatment. Personally, I received a flawed knife with serious heat treat issues from a small scale shop (not one on BF). A little research turned up the exact same problem from this maker. That person posted the issue on a forum and was immediately taken care of. I didn't want to raise a stink and just emailed a detailed account with pics. Several weeks later, there is still no resolution. I was told a resolution can be discussed after the blade is tested and shipping will be very high to return the blade. My reception was very different and I feel a public display of the problem would gotten me quicker resolution.

And for the QC issue in general, I worked in a shop when in high school. We made fork lifts. A few examples of how QC was handled opened my eyes. After fuel tanks were fabricated, they were to be flushed for 30 minutes to clean slag. Almost immediately, that turned into filling and emptying the tank in minutes. Rust was to be removed with a wire wheel. That turned in to rubbing the wheel over the metal to knock any thick surface rust off. Instead of cleaning parts prior to painting, we were told to run a rag with dirty solvent over the part. In short, no one cared one bit about how this forklift would function once it left the factory. The forklifts were being made for the US Marine Corps, complete with rifle racks. That company went bankrupt before the contract was even completed. I'm still disgusted by what I saw, but now realize this is what the business world often does. That's why I'm not surprised when I buy a new truck and discover the rear bumper is only held on by two loose bolts instead of four tightened bolts. Sad. Take care.
 
powernoodle said:
In my case, I emailed Benchmade and asked if they paid for shipping from me to them, and they sent me a pre-paid UPS shipping label. Maybe it was just because I asked, or perhaps the customer service person has discretion to pull the trigger when they so choose. But that small act of saving me the shipping cost made it an A+ experience for me - assuming the knife looks good when I receive it, which I anticipate.
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Cold Steel did the same thing for me once and it worked out great. :)
 
jdk1 said:
While I agree there are many who do this, I've noticed something. It seems a public posting can, at times, get you better treatment. Personally, I received a flawed knife with serious heat treat issues from a small scale shop (not one on BF). A little research turned up the exact same problem from this maker. That person posted the issue on a forum and was immediately taken care of. I didn't want to raise a stink and just emailed a detailed account with pics. Several weeks later, there is still no resolution. I was told a resolution can be discussed after the blade is tested and shipping will be very high to return the blade. My reception was very different and I feel a public display of the problem would gotten me quicker resolution.

And for the QC issue in general, I worked in a shop when in high school. We made fork lifts. A few examples of how QC was handled opened my eyes. After fuel tanks were fabricated, they were to be flushed for 30 minutes to clean slag. Almost immediately, that turned into filling and emptying the tank in minutes. Rust was to be removed with a wire wheel. That turned in to rubbing the wheel over the metal to knock any thick surface rust off. Instead of cleaning parts prior to painting, we were told to run a rag with dirty solvent over the part. In short, no one cared one bit about how this forklift would function once it left the factory. The forklifts were being made for the US Marine Corps, complete with rifle racks. That company went bankrupt before the contract was even completed. I'm still disgusted by what I saw, but now realize this is what the business world often does. That's why I'm not surprised when I buy a new truck and discover the rear bumper is only held on by two loose bolts instead of four tightened bolts. Sad. Take care.
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That really doesn't surprise me with some of the things I have personally seen over the years, yes it's sad that they will cut every corner that it is possible they can get away with and raise the prices to boot...

Consumers really have to be careful these days on what they buy.
 
I would like to make a comment on the analogy of firearms to knives, as far as QC is concerned.

Every firearm contains an explosion that can hurt/maim/kill its owner, or innocent bystanders, a higher level of QC is necessary, and regulated. The gun must fire safely, not accurately, or consistently, just safely. Knives, can injure or maim the owner, possibly an innocent bystander, but only if there is gross abuse. I've never seen a knife explode in the hand of user cutting some kind of media. I have seen them explode when some tried to chop something harder than the knife though. Gross abuse.

The original question was (paraphrasing here) "more issues now, than before", and my answer is still no. Issues with knife products have always been around, and if I was to make an assumption, I would say less now, than in generations before us.

Factory's have gotten better, cleaner, and bigger in the last 10yrs, protocols have been established, CNC machining has rose to the forefront, even overseas manufacturing has stepped up its game, and are now making some great blades.

Imagine, say, back in 1945, when there were companies that were making the Marine Combat Utility knife, by the truck load. Hundreds of thousands of knives, rolling out the gates, headed to unknown soldiers across the globe, if knife had an uneven grind, or a bent blade, it was either dealt with or discarded, and a new one was issued. Simple enough. I would like to think that everyone involved in making those knives for our soldiers, gave a damn about what they were doing, mostly, because the folks in the factory cared about who got them. BUT.......profit wasn't figuring into the equation, getting good equipment to our "boys" was the determining factor.

Perhaps is just a dream, but that's how I would like to see it.

Either way, there were still problems with the products, and they were sent out regardless.

I would also like to congratulate everyone in this thread, its a good thread, and we've stayed on topic for the most part, and been civil about it. I've seen other threads go down hill fast when QC is the topic of discussion.

Moose
 
Moosez45 said:
I would like to make a comment on the analogy of firearms to knives, as far as QC is concerned.

Every firearm contains an explosion that can hurt/maim/kill its owner, or innocent bystanders, a higher level of QC is necessary, and regulated. The gun must fire safely, not accurately, or consistently, just safely. Knives, can injure or maim the owner, possibly an innocent bystander, but only if there is gross abuse. I've never seen a knife explode in the hand of user cutting some kind of media. I have seen them explode when some tried to chop something harder than the knife though. Gross abuse.

The original question was (paraphrasing here) "more issues now, than before", and my answer is still no. Issues with knife products have always been around, and if I was to make an assumption, I would say less now, than in generations before us.

Factory's have gotten better, cleaner, and bigger in the last 10yrs, protocols have been established, CNC machining has rose to the forefront, even overseas manufacturing has stepped up its game, and are now making some great blades.

Imagine, say, back in 1945, when there were companies that were making the Marine Combat Utility knife, by the truck load. Hundreds of thousands of knives, rolling out the gates, headed to unknown soldiers across the globe, if knife had an uneven grind, or a bent blade, it was either dealt with or discarded, and a new one was issued. Simple enough. I would like to think that everyone involved in making those knives for our soldiers, gave a damn about what they were doing, mostly, because the folks in the factory cared about who got them. BUT.......profit wasn't figuring into the equation, getting good equipment to our "boys" was the determining factor.

Perhaps is just a dream, but that's how I would like to see it.

Either way, there were still problems with the products, and they were sent out regardless.

I would also like to congratulate everyone in this thread, its a good thread, and we've stayed on topic for the most part, and been civil about it. I've seen other threads go down hill fast when QC is the topic of discussion.

Moose
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I think you are on spot with that post. :)

When things are mass produced there will be some problems here and there and sometimes they will get past the QC people as they are human in the end.

I also like to think that some of the companies really do care more about quality than pure profit, but I also believe they are getting more scarce these days compared to in the past.

I also like to believe once things turn around in the world the quality will start to come back.

Call me a sucker, but I like to think positive. :)
 
Ankerson said:
I think you are on spot with that post. :)

When things are mass produced there will be some problems here and there and sometimes they will get past the QC people as they are human in the end.

I also like to think that some of the companies really do care more about quality than pure profit, but I also believe they are getting more scarce these days compared to in the past.

I also like to believe once things turn around in the world the quality will start to come back.

Call me a sucker, but I like to think positive. :)
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Sucker.

:D

Moose
 
I notice the same alarming trend the OP has observed. There are many reports of brand new knives that come with blade play, off centering, and sharpness/grind issues. I am not talking about cheap knives either. These are from the Top 3 USA production folder manufacturers. We have noticed this trend and called it "The Culture of Mediocrity". Unfortunately it effects all areas of our society. Doctors that shrug shoulders when asked to explain a diagnosis is all too common. Lawyers, teachers, pilots, bus drivers and police have all been infected. I remember a time when people took pride in being the best at what they did everytime not just once in a while. Customer service is nice but it is still a hassle. I hate having to go through the process for something that is 100% preventable. What happens when it is a heart valve or hip replacement? The one area these companies have mastered is getting our money. A great reputation has to be constantly reaffirmed. You cannot get by on your laurels. It gives your competition the opportunity to eat your lunch. Badmouthing and brand loyalty will only get you so far. Someday soon "Made In American" will be like what "Made In Taiwan" was back in the day. Who's fault will that be?
 
Moosez45 said:
I would also like to congratulate everyone in this thread, its a good thread, and we've stayed on topic for the most part, and been civil about it. I've seen other threads go down hill fast when QC is the topic of discussion.

Moose
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We are exercising quality control over this thread. :)
 
The analogy using firearms was to illustrate that if the "will" exists, QC of a higher order is attainable. The reason firearms are more closely regulated is secondary to the point being made. I guess I'm just not ready to embrace the concept that because something is mass produced that inherently it has to, or justifies shoddy workmanship. Nor do we have to accept it.

Although, I have to agree that does seem to be the case for the most part, sad but true.

In the case of firearms, the few minutes spent at the end of the production cycle ensures or at least contributes greatly to the level of quality of the product before it leaves the factory. Those few minute if applied to anything, but in this case knives would no doubt greatly reduce the number of defects that make it into the market. I'm only suggesting that it's possible if the will exists.

It all goes back to the folks at the top. If they are willing to sacrifice some profit to produce a better product they will. Then we as consumers also have to decide if we are willing to pay a bit more for that quality. We get to pick and choose.

This whole information sharing thing is a duel edged sword. On the one hand it gives voice to the people who's only interest is to complain. That's why when I see someone bashing or even blatantly promoting a brand I tend to ignore them. The other side is that we can gain some very valuable insight and information form others experiences.

To that end I hoped to get a general consensus from others who pay attention if they see a change or difference in the overall QC of the knives they buy these days. I think this thread has been very informative in answering that question. A lot of honest and useful information has been shared...
 
I wanted to add that I to appreciate the level of civility displayed in this thread. It shows that people can have a serious conversation and even if they agree or disagree it doesn't have to digress into name calling and fooolishness........ Well done by all...
 
I feel that a lot of it just boils down to pride in one's work, and also thankfullness that one has that job in the first place.

Heck, just look at Spyderco. (whom I love, by the way) Their Taiwan manufacturer has consistently put out knives which are built better, sometimes by a HUGE margin, than the ones coming from Golden. Wonder why that is? Surely the Taiwanese people don't have some sort of special knife making ability over us Americans, right? If not, then what else could it be? I have a feeling that they are glad to be there, and that they take pride in their work.
 
Ankerson said:
Cold Steel did the same thing for me once and it worked out great. :)
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Was that the time you had 2 Trailmasters Cross Guards Catastrophically Fail in a row? Was that the time you started a long thread damning their Customer Service for not responding during the weekend and posted a dozen or more pictures about the failure?

With some Companies the squeaky wheel has to howl before it gets its oil. And when that wheel howls on that companies forum it is just good PR to hop to and go out of their way and above and beyond the norm to satisfy a long time, well regarded and respected Forum Member.

But if that sort of effort is what is needed to get good service from a Company is it worth it?
 
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Ankerson said:
When things are mass produced there will be some problems here and there and sometimes they will get past the QC people as they are human in the end.

I also like to think that some of the companies really do care more about quality than pure profit, but I also believe they are getting more scarce these days compared to in the past.

I also like to believe once things turn around in the world the quality will start to come back.

Call me a sucker, but I like to think positive. :)
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I agree with most of this.. I think the companies that care about quality than pure profit have realized that it actually helps their profit if they do it right...The profit takes care of itself... At least thats what I believe. And my personal company is built on that premise. We make the best product we can, we charge the prices neessary and we stand behind everything we make. And we never experienced a down turn in sales. Our worst year was flat, but we've been doing 50-100% growth since then.

But sadly the number cruching approach to business pushes for lower quality, indirectly by being overzealous about driving costs down past where its rational or practical.
 
When a company starts pushing for numbers instead of a sustainable quality product it's a sign that the company vision has clouded. Consumers today want to purchase more than a product.
 
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