Quality Control Issues in General

Ankerson,

(Hopefully still on-topic, somewhat...) I just watched your vid on the LE BM710's. You said they didn't loosen up on you during your testing. In your Griptilian vid, I recall it having developed some up and down play after your hard use test. I wondered if it was something inherent to the partial liner-design of the grip that predisposed it to the up and down play?

I only ask because I've started carrying BM Bone Collectors -- awesome folders (flat-ground D2 at ~61RC, blackened liners, super-ergonomic sculpted G10 scales, an all-around winner in my book). They've got full liners like the 710's, though not quite as thick. In my experience, the Axis self-adjusts for up and down play by wedging the blade tang against both the stop pin and the pivot hole agaist the pivot pin. I've always been a big fan of the overall design, and think it's one of the very few locking mechs that self-adjusts against long-term wear, is very strong, and is safe and reliable.

I was just curious as to your thoughts on why/how the Grip developed the play, if it was present still once closed and re-opened with some force, and your opinions on the Axis mech in general. Considering your testing of so many different kinds of knives, I've got healthy respect for your perspective. Thanks in advance.

By the way, if you're ever in Roanoke, lemme buy you a beer. I was just down in Cary in July seeing The Other Ones at the Boothe Ampitheater. Really cool place.

Prof.
 
Professor said:
Ankerson,

(Hopefully still on-topic, somewhat...) I just watched your vid on the LE BM710's. You said they didn't loosen up on you during your testing. In your Griptilian vid, I recall it having developed some up and down play after your hard use test. I wondered if it was something inherent to the partial liner-design of the grip that predisposed it to the up and down play?

I only ask because I've started carrying BM Bone Collectors -- awesome folders (flat-ground D2 at ~61RC, blackened liners, super-ergonomic sculpted G10 scales, an all-around winner in my book). They've got full liners like the 710's, though not quite as thick. In my experience, the Axis self-adjusts for up and down play by wedging the blade tang against both the stop pin and the pivot hole agaist the pivot pin. I've always been a big fan of the overall design, and think it's one of the very few locking mechs that self-adjusts against long-term wear, is very strong, and is safe and reliable.

I was just curious as to your thoughts on why/how the Grip developed the play, if it was present still once closed and re-opened with some force, and your opinions on the Axis mech in general. Considering your testing of so many different kinds of knives, I've got healthy respect for your perspective. Thanks in advance.

By the way, if you're ever in Roanoke, lemme buy you a beer. I was just down in Cary in July seeing The Other Ones at the Boothe Ampitheater. Really cool place.

Prof.
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I think it developed play because I beat the crap out of it, other that that it would have been just fine.
 
Rapt_up said:
I agree with most of this.. I think the companies that care about quality than pure profit have realized that it actually helps their profit if they do it right...The profit takes care of itself... At least thats what I believe. And my personal company is built on that premise. We make the best product we can, we charge the prices neessary and we stand behind everything we make. And we never experienced a down turn in sales. Our worst year was flat, but we've been doing 50-100% growth since then.

But sadly the number cruching approach to business pushes for lower quality, indirectly by being overzealous about driving costs down past where its rational or practical.
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I understand that, but it's not the norm of what I have experienced companies that I have worked for doing, it's more GREED than anything. Also not doing anything positive for the employees period.

My hats off to you though. :)
 
Freak Show Scott said:
Was that the time you had 2 Trailmasters Cross Guards Catastrophically Fail in a row? Was that the time you started a long thread damning their Customer Service for not responding during the weekend and posted a dozen or more pictures about the failure?

With some Companies the squeaky wheel has to howl before it gets its oil. And when that wheel howls on that companies forum it is just good PR to hop to and go out of their way and above and beyond the norm to satisfy a long time, well regarded and respected Forum Member.

But if that sort of effort is what is needed to get good service from a Company is it worth it?
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NO, the was the 2nd time. :)
 
While the complaints generally linger and are more vocally expressed, one of my profs gave us a statistic in marketing - only about 1 in 7 people with an issue with a product will formally put forth a complaint. So we almost have to be thankful for the drama queens (and the level-headed :)) who pipe up while the other 6 just "deal with it". Now, I don't know how much this number has changed with the growth of internet shopping and usage in general.
 
I'll admit, I made a stink (rather recently in fact) about the QC on some knives I had bought. They were all expensive, and given my investment I just wasn't at all happy. One knife, a $200 knife (ZT0550), had to be sent in twice until it was properly fixed. As was mentioned, one of the others was a ZT0780, and I bought three of them. One is being replaced with another model, one I sold, and one I kept as a collector's piece. The one that I actually made the stink about was the ZT0560. It's a ~$240-260 blade, and the gentleman whom I bought it from inspected the stock to make sure I got one that was solid and without issue. I got it, it was perfect. It was perfect for a little less than two weeks, and then it developed vertical play, and I saw that the lock face had flared out.

So, that was close to a grand that I had spent, and just had continuous issues. Of course I made a fuss about it, because I wasn't happy. I'll also admit, I'm a Kershaw/ZT fanboy and will continue to be so. They're great, and they stand behind their products and will bend over backwards to make sure that the customer is happy. I'll recommend them forever. However when I saw how much I spent, and the time I then spent without my knives, I was very upset, and complaining publicly about it got attention and a better resolution than I would have going through usual channels.

I probably just had really bad luck. However that doesn't discount that I was let down, and I think it's fair to say something about it.
 
sticktodrum said:
I'll admit, I made a stink (rather recently in fact) about the QC on some knives I had bought. They were all expensive, and given my investment I just wasn't at all happy. One knife, a $200 knife (ZT0550), had to be sent in twice until it was properly fixed. As was mentioned, one of the others was a ZT0780, and I bought three of them. One is being replaced with another model, one I sold, and one I kept as a collector's piece. The one that I actually made the stink about was the ZT0560. It's a ~$240-260 blade, and the gentleman whom I bought it from inspected the stock to make sure I got one that was solid and without issue. I got it, it was perfect. It was perfect for a little less than two weeks, and then it developed vertical play, and I saw that the lock face had flared out.

So, that was close to a grand that I had spent, and just had continuous issues. Of course I made a fuss about it, because I wasn't happy. I'll also admit, I'm a Kershaw/ZT fanboy and will continue to be so. They're great, and they stand behind their products and will bend over backwards to make sure that the customer is happy. I'll recommend them forever. However when I saw how much I spent, and the time I then spent without my knives, I was very upset, and complaining publicly about it got attention and a better resolution than I would have going through usual channels.

I probably just had really bad luck. However that doesn't discount that I was let down, and I think it's fair to say something about it.
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Not only was it fair for you to say something, as part of this community sharing your experience was useful to others.

I'm very glad they resolved your issues. When it comes to the better companies that's what sets them apart.

What happened to you is exactly what I was talking about. Multiple knives, in a row or relatively short period of time that had problems and you had to send them back for warranty service.

I'm just glad they resolved your issues. Like I said before, there's nothing worse then opening the box of your new knife and realizing that you have to send it back. Saying it sucks is an understaement!
 
I've purchased several midtechs and high end production knives and 3/4 of these knives have had vertical blade play. The only 3 brands I haven't had issues with are CRK, Hinderer, and Shirogorov's midtechs. I've bought two strider SnG's in a row, but straight from a dealer with the new lock up, and both have had vertical play. My Les George came with vertical play and 3 sister forge beast and so on and so on. Its either I have bad luck, or these guys need to have a more consistant batch of knives.
 
My favorite knives are framelocks, I have Striders, Lionspy, ZT. I also have a lot of Lone Wolf Harsey, Lone Wolf ingeneral, and Benchmade Spyderco, Boker.
The ZT's have excellent F&F w/out any bladeplay. The 2012 Striders have good F&F but came w/some play, the older striders, 1 NSN SMF is decent, and 1 AR is super solid. The Benchmade are so so, some are good some loose, Lone Wolf are pretty good, spyderco are all good. My point is if ZT or any company can make knives w/out play or flaws then anyone can. Keeping prices low is part of the equation though, ZT's aren't cheap, but A $500 Strider should do the same.
 
Well, after much discussion with Benchmade, they owned up to their mistake, and then some. I am very pleased with how the situation turned out. I was literally seeing red when I received my knife back the second time.

They very well could of told me to get bent. But they didn't. They are yet another company that will stand behind their customer.

So far I've learned that Kershaw, and Benchmade are top notch companies. They have taken good care of me. In the off chance that I get a bogus knife. I know these companies will make it right.

I doubt there is an increase in any defective products. If anything, there is probably a decrease. These companies really care to make it right and like others have pointed out; The lemons are a result of the mass production process.
 
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