Queen Quality

the only other queen knife I had an issue was the workhorse barlow, and a funky grind is hardly a major issue for me because there was an edge on it. Its now on the give way thing Randy's doing for Bob. maybe someone will win it and give it a good home. Besides one oddly pinned shield, Im quite content with my Queen/schatt and morgans. In fact I now have more of them than GECs. Even the after market modified Queen's ive posted were ok. I think their Quality Control can do with a little scrutiny. but of the models im interested in, the barlow, single blade trapper, the lock back model, and tear drop, all of the ones i own for the most part are fine. in fact the next purchase i am making is a pair of schatt and morgan tear drop jacks
 
Cory, i enjoyed reading your post, #13. It's encouraging to hear about the good quality of most of your recent Queen knives.
The ongoing raving about GEC is based in years of pent up frustration about the decreasing quality in Trad. knives. Then along comes GEC and right away, one home run after another, non stop for nearly 10 years now.
I think the consistent high level of workmanship found in GEC knives has forced the other manufacturers to up their standards too.
kj

ps, check the #65's in mammoth. very nice.
 
I have nothing but great things to say about the Queen knives I own. But, take that with a grain of salt. Every Queen knife I own I hand inspected at the factory or at a knife show before I bought it, so I knew what I was buying.
 
TsarBomba said:
Your feedback is valuable and realistic, Cory
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kootenay joe said:
Cory, i enjoyed reading your post, #13. It's encouraging to hear about the good quality of most of your recent Queen knives.
The ongoing raving about GEC is based in years of pent up frustration about the decreasing quality in Trad. knives. Then along comes GEC and right away, one home run after another, non stop for nearly 10 years now.
I think the consistent high level of workmanship found in GEC knives has forced the other manufacturers to up their standards too.
kj

ps, check the #65's in mammoth. very nice.
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Thank you both for the kind words. KJ, I'm a believer in GEC 100%. They've earned their following here, for sure. I'm sure that many of the positives that we've experienced with recent Queens is a result of what Ken Daniels learned at GEC.

As for those baby sunfish, they're just incredible looking. I've never owned any mammoth ivory. Maybe that has to change soon. ;)
 
White Crown said:
Has everyone had good experiences with the file and wire? Or can they be spotty as well?
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Read post #8 just above your post #9 (quoted) for your answer.

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I will say that I once had a File & Wire with a problem but It was fixed by the factory no problem - something to do about a gap between the cover and liner.

I don't buy Queen or Schatt & Morgan post 2009 but many people do and the majority of them are satisfied with them.

Some complain about the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest, tiniest, tiniest - in other words, miniscule up and down blade movement in their Queen Mountain Man lockback knives - also the same movement in their GEC lockback knives but I think they're a little too ---- and that it's really no problem at all.

I've come to the conclusion that the people that complain the most about edge grinds don't have sharpening down pat and are unable to correct the problem themselves so they blame everyone they can for what in the end is their inability to hone a blade.

One thing about knife collecting or just plain knife accumulating is that you (meaning you in general) should learn how to fix or adjust flaws with your knives. Heck that's a great part of the fun of knife collecting/accumulation - at least for me.

Anyway, all of the above is just my .02¢ Too much grumbling about such minor issues.
 
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Modoc ED said:
Read post #8 just above your post #9 (quoted) for your answer.

Anyway, all of the above is just my .02¢ Too much grumbling about such minor issues.
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you are right, i cant sharpen worth much outside of these lansky crock sticks, but the bevel should atleast make sense from the factory
 
Modoc, you are the second person this far to insinuate that those of us complaining about the blade grinds cannot sharpen. To set the record clear we are not talking about the edge bevel/profile/secondary grind. We are talking about the supposed-to-be flat primary grind being uneven, like a roller coaster from kick to tip. In fact, evening out the edge bevel on mine further highlighted the defect. And some of my issues were not teeny teeny tiny issues, heck they totally forgot to sharpen one of the blades. I charge a small fee in my local area to restore old slippies, I am well versed in sharpening and yes I CAN put my own edge on it, and did, but it's one of the many things I shouldn't have had to do out of the box.
 
I have three Queen knives, listed in order of acquisition:

1 - #70 Country Cousin, D2 Steel, green Micarta scales, first generation. Great knife in all respects but one - the backspring is noticeably proud in the fully open position. Also, it took a bit of work to get a good sharp edge including some backbeveling / thinning behind the secondary bevel. Decent knife that just doesn't get much pocket carry. I wish I knew what I needed to file down to get that backspring flush when open, that's the only real flaw.

2 - #9 ACSB Stockman, D2 Steel, Amber carved stag bone handles. This one is flawless. On a par with anything I own from GEC. All blades had a good sharp edge out of the box, ready to go. I think it was new old stock when I bought it so I am not sure how old it is. Could be from the 2008 time frame.

3 - #2 ACSB Serpentine Jack, D2 Steel, Amber carved stag bone handles. Also seems to be new old-stock. Looks-wise, this one is perfect. Everything flush open and closed, beautiful bone, nice looking knife overall.

This one has the notorious thick primary grind with an obtuse edge bevel on the main blade. I have spent a lot of time trying to get it as sharp as I want it and still have more work to do. It cuts, but the blade geometry is just too thick. I don't know if that's just how that knife is made, or the individual sample I have was just not ground well. It'll be a decent knife if I can ever thin it out enough. Right now any of my Case knives are much better slicers.

Edited to add - Eventually I'll get that #2 sharp like I want it, just need to work on it more. I do pretty well with typical traditional knife steels but the D2 is a challenge for me. It has become a little side project.
 
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White Crown said:
Modoc, you are the second person this far to insinuate that those of us complaining about the blade grinds cannot sharpen. To set the record clear we are not talking about the edge bevel/profile/secondary grind. We are talking about the supposed-to-be flat primary grind being uneven, like a roller coaster from kick to tip. In fact, evening out the edge bevel on mine further highlighted the defect. And some of my issues were not teeny teeny tiny issues, heck they totally forgot to sharpen one of the blades. I charge a small fee in my local area to restore old slippies, I am well versed in sharpening and yes I CAN put my own edge on it, and did, but it's one of the many things I shouldn't have had to do out of the box.
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I agree about the problems with the primary grind. The difference between grinds and edges seems to be a regular point of confusion on the forum. I don't care about the edges. Actually... in some cases I would prefer that didn't try sharpening them at all. Sometimes they do more harm then good.

I've yet to get one of those fabled Queen/GEC/Case factory edges that didn't need sharpening. I've heard about them but don't believe they exist. I'm fine with sharpening my new knives though. It's expected by me.

But the full flat grinds are important to me and they can only be fixed by regrinding the ENTIRE surface of the blade (not the edge)
 
I just got this one in a Northwoods fruit knife (second) a member sold it at an amazing price. It's D2 so I'm assuming Queen made it. I'm a total sucker for tiny big knives. This one is thinner than a musk rat with a pretty decently long blade in it. Super easy to pocket with lots of cutting edge.

It came sharp but with a wire edge hanging on. I stropped it off and gave it a quick sharpen after that. The edge is really keen on this one and I'm overall pleased for the $30 that the bf member sold it for. I often times sell off or gaw knives that I don't pocket but as soon as I got this one I knew that it hit on all points so that I would be willing to edc it. Its also a kooky pattern as I've never had a fruit knife before. It kinda feels like a gigantic Schrade 18OT.

 
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That knife sure is a looker. Afaik dave Shirley did some of the work from his shop and queen the rest, like final assembly after the covers were pinned to the liners, on those northwoods knives before Derrick bohn took it over, so it is in part a testament of the kind of quality they are capable to produce.
 
Well, my Q.C. skate key Barlow in stag came today. It wasn't a factory order, obviously, and it was purchased on the secondary market so it's not one of those pristine 2016s everybody wants to be perfect (or thinks will be horrible). But for a knife as unique as this one (almost literally - it's a 50-piece short run), and for as amazing as it could have been (and probably would have been if it were a GEC or a product of one of the amazing makers on BF), it just wasn't.

The stag is gorgeous, comfortable, naturally a Barlow handle. The bolsters feature a stylized logo etch, overall a very handsome and authoritative-looking knife. You will notice this thing. For what is essentially a middle-class workman's knife pattern, this is a sexy knife. Positive.

The grind on the blade seems even and well done - it's a spear and carries that typical Queen taper to the tip. It wasn't incredibly sharp (no big deal), but it has a working edge and will likely take a brilliant one. The skate key is machined well, matte, utilitarian but also quirky enough to be cool -- plus the tip can drive a standard light duty flathead screw in a pinch. So far so good. And yet...

Both blades have unmistakeable play. It's not big, but it's not subtle. It's there. One of my biggest pet peeves on a knife, and even the secondary (the skate key) suffers from it. I can almost swear I saw the center liner flexing a tiny bit when I checked -- and I don't use a lot of force at all. The heartbreak was palpable, I promise. If nothing else, if the finish sucked and the bolsters were skewed and the blade had spiderwebs on it, the blades needed to sit tight. A solid negative.

As good as the finish is, the fit isn't super tight, though it is definitely comparable to many Case factory firsts I've held, owned, or seen. (this is Q.C., after all, not S&M). For what I was expecting of this knife, and for some of the prices I've seen other examples go for, I thought it might be a little closer to that seamless, infinity-edge fit you see from certain S&M short runs, or pretty much every GEC anybody ever cares to show on BF. :p So I suppose in this facet, I was left with a neutral impression. Just not enough to override the disappointment in the (small, but present) blade play.

My only solace is that I got what I consider a ridiculously good deal on it (under $40) for a new in box example. The way I see it, I have 3 options:

1. Harangue the seller into a refund on account of he misrepresented it to me as locking up tight before I had a chance to get my hands on it.

2. Keep the knife and contact Queen to arrange to send them one of those fabled "blank checks" (but try to pay for your Rio vacation, ladies, and you might as well ride that check to Brazil, it'll bounce so high :D) and see if they can tighten up that action and turn it into my most treasured Barlow. Hey, it's a 1/50 run!

3. Keep the knife and flip it online for a quick but guilty profit.

I guess I might have one more option... 4. Keep the knife and be a man, suck it up, you're not out that much.

I don't like that option. :barf:
 
Have you ever tried tightening up pivots on your own? If you haven't done it practice on a RR or the like first. Just need a ball pein hammer, sandpaper, and either steel wool or a dremel (much preferred) with buffing wheel. At the price you paid and on the secondary market it is a viable option #5. I've commonly gotten slips with play from several mfgs. I think that defect is fairly common, good to hear your blades were ground properly (you were talking primary?) because that is a more difficult fix. I've only ground new blades (fixed)from untreated stock... And thicker stock at that.
 
White Crown said:
I think that defect is fairly common, good to hear your blades were ground properly (you were talking primary?) because that is a more difficult fix.
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Yes, primary grind is definitely not something I'd attempt to fix. I take it as a given that QA should catch a grossly-asymmetrical grind, preferably before someone sticks it into a handle and then festoons it with nice stag.

I may consider the pin work. I've got a rotary and every bit known to man for them. Get this: I have one RR Barlow, but it's tighter than my parents' wallets were when I was a kid. :p Got one or two Camcos in the "clean up" box, alongside a Delrin Ka-bar or two. Still, on a knife like this I might just put a little extra in to make it "Queen quality" worthy of being featured among my Barlows. Unfortunately, as some have said in this thread and others, the QA wasn't there to catch issues like this in the first place.
 
Agreed. I also expected the Queen to be better, not the same or worse, when paying more money for it. Simple consumer logic IMO.
 
So, earlier in the week I ordered a #046 half whittler in amber stag. It was supposed to be delivered today, but I received it yesterday. I really like the knife. The design is fantastic, and the execution is better than I expected seeing as how these knives were made in the dark years right before the Daniels family took over. The pull is a little lighter than I prefer, but on a knife this size it's definitely acceptable.

The one area of concern is that there are pin cracks in the mark side stag. I took a quick cell phone picture to show these.



You can see the cracks running from the pin on either end out to the bolsters. I didn't want to start using the knife and have these cracks worsen and then find out that the damage would be accredited to me, voiding the warranty. I also didn't want to return the knife, as I'm quite happy with it otherwise. I emailed Ryan Daniels last night at 10:49 to get his opinion. He responded at 1:40 to let me know that I could send the knife in and they'd replace the stag. He said that they might not have amber and might have to substitute torched stag. I shot him an email at 1:41 saying that I was fine with that as long as they replaced both covers so that they'd match. At 4:53 he responded with instructions on sending in the knife and told me to include a note explaining our conversation to the Sue Vincent.

I have never sent a knife in for repair to any manufacturer. Normally, I'd deal with the vendor regarding issues since they're the ones I bought the knife from. In my opinion, part of what I'm paying for is the service of the vendor taking care of me and dealing with their suppliers after I've been satisfied. This thread inspired me to attempt to work directly with Queen in this matter. So far, I'm pretty impressed with Ryan's response time. My current life situations require that I be something of a night owl, and when I send out messages late at night like this I generally don't expect a response until the next day.

Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see how they do once they receive my knife. I'll update here as news comes in.
 
I had one in fluted pearl. Cute little knife and well made. It's a nice pattern and a good example of how their patterns are very close to the old ones. I hope they can fix it up for you, Cory.
 
Does anyone know what is the expected inspection quantity pass rate for big knife companies like Case, Queen, or GEC?

I worked at a factory that made parts for the military, and we only had to sample 8% of made parts to pass an entire lot, as long as all 8/100 passed, we didn't even check the others. Let the buyer send back anything they don't like and we'd fix it. Sometimes it was 0 returns, sometimes it was up to 10, but the cost to fix the bad ones was cheaper than doing 100% inspection and paying 2 more full time inspectors for every job.

Does the knife industry operate under the same guidelines?
 
Cory Hess said:
I have never sent a knife in for repair to any manufacturer.
Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see how they do once they receive my knife. I'll update here as news comes in.
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I'm greatly interested in the outcome of this as well, given my Barlow conundrum above.
 
I think this is really par for the course. I tried to jump on the GEC bandwagon as soon as I realized that I liked traditionals. We're talking Colt Peanut to a #68 Buckaroo. All in all it was a fantastic build what I couldn't get over was that the blade literally had no finished beveled edge.

So after a few more GEC experiences I was completely off that brand and back to Rough Riders. High quality mass produced (read:machined) knives. I then tried out the "as ground" blades from Case and learned that I liked those a whole lot. I then later ventured back to pricier hand finished (but more imperfect) blades checking out some Canal Street Cutlery, more GEC, Northwoods contracted knives and now Queen.

The one thing I like about these latter brands are those imperfectly ground and rounded tops of the blades, this "by hand" process lends an intimate feel to each knife. And I've come to realize that there are certain limits to what you can get for a $80-$150 hand finished knife. CSC came almost perfect so I literally have no idea how they were producing sub $100 knives that they were producing to such high standards, but to that affect they are now no longer in business, so maybe that explains a lot. (Sad to see them go)

With the Queen that I was able to acquire the same nuances apply. I love how they rounded the tops of the blade, the spine is a little sharp in spots, the kick kinda sticks out funny, but the jigged scales were lovely and it's an overall awesome piece to carry around everyday. So I take the whole quality thing with a grain of salt as that is what is currently available for a semi hand finished traditional that lacks the precision from a process automated machining process geared towards mass production (mass production often times equates to higher precision and tighter tolerances) which like all technology often times supplants old world traditions and replacing them with something that is perfectly serviceable and cheaper but lacking the organic nuances of how people did things right before mass production as we know it today began to rule the worst. It's strange but the Queen (Northwoods fruit knife) that I picked up is a second and was sold to me for $30 is my current fan favorite out of all the pricier traditionals that I've picked up. Now if only GEC made that Buckaroo in D2 or a stainless steel..... hint hint.....
 
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