Queen Quality

[Cory Hess]

BoilerUp, I'd be very upset with that myself. There is a thread in GB&U started by a member that goes by CutsLikeAKris detailing a similarly bad CS experience he went through sending a knife in to be repaired. I just sent my knife out today, so hopefully it goes better for me.

kj, the closest I've come to what the Daniels are trying to accomplish in turning around Queen is when I became the manager of a dysfunctional department at a previous job. It took me quite a while to change the culture. You don't walk in on day one and hold a half hour meeting and have everything change. The employees are used to a certain way that things are done and you have to completely retrain them from the ground up. There is quite a bit of pushback, as they are used to getting away with putting forth less effort than what you're demanding. At the same time, you can't just walk in the door and fire everybody. You need somebody to work in order to keep the doors open. So, you make do with what you have and eventually replace people one at a time, keeping the ones that come around to your way of doing things. From what I understand, the person in charge of repairs was let go after the CutsLikeAKris incident. So, it's not like these things happen and ownership is turning a blind eye.

I'm not saying that they should get a free pass. What I'm saying is that I haven't given up on them yet. I think it's completely understandable for other people to walk away from them until the company can get things to a standard that they find acceptable. I'm satisfied as long as I continue to see improvement. I think that they've come a long way. A year and a half ago when I joined this forum I wasn't seeing too much good about Queen. This last year with the Queen 2015 thread it was mostly positive with the only pattern getting a lot of complaints being the 99 scout. I see the same with knives I've handled. The ones that are three or four years old aren't as refined as the 2015 knives that I've handled. If you're expecting a switch to be flipped that takes a company that's putting out questionable work to all of a sudden produce consistent perfection you're going to be disappointed. If you're looking for an improvement over time until a standard has been met then I think that they're achieving that. Of course my opinion might be different if they threw away a knife that meant a lot to me.

 

[supratentorial]

I mentioned this in a previous thread but their full flat primary grinds (I'm not talking about edges) seem to be much better on blades made of 1095. The worst grinds that I've gotten from them were on Schatt and Morgan knives with 420HC steel. This was PRE DANIELS family. I did have one recent experience with their 420HC and there was no improvement but it was marked as a factory second and a short run--I suspect it had been made from left over old parts. I suspect that some of their recent short runs are made from leftover parts and I've noticed that some of these have blades that appear to have been reground. I'm hoping this is a sign that they are addressing the issues with their grinds.

Here's a Moore Maker with excellent grinds.

 

[Will Power]

True. Thanks for noting that, Jake.

Another example: Top knife has a glued shield, bottom knife shield is pinned.

I have a Zebrawood knife with the same shield as the bottom one, allegedly pinned...why then does my shield move around in its recess if it is pinned? Can't understand this one The shield can be turned round clockwise and anti clockwise about 180 degrees.

 

[Railsplitter]

I have a Zebrawood knife with the same shield as the bottom one, allegedly pinned...why then does my shield move around in its recess if it is pinned? Can't understand this one The shield can be turned round clockwise and anti clockwise about 180 degrees.

I haven't got a clue, Will but that is rather strange indeed. I can see the pin pressed into the liner opposite the shield when I look inside the blade well. Can you see a pin on the knife in question?

It would seem that if your shield was loose enough to rotate, it would just fall out if it were glued on. Perhaps it is somehow rotating on the pin.

 

[Will Power]

Yes, that's what I thought - rotating on the pin but it's pretty odd. I though it was pinned not hubbed

It appears to have a pin inside the liner but liners can have lots of holes in all manner of places....

 

[Dean51]

Corry I've been reading your posts since the OP started his recent posts and you seem to have better insight into this than anyone else. :thumbup:

I've never asked a dealer to hand pick a knife. I did buy my two stag S&M's barlows from a dealer who posted a picture left side, right side and above. Stag is not always as symmetrical as I would like it to be.

Overall I've been quite happy with what I've received from Queen and believe they are improving. As you said turning a company around takes time. To produce a pocket knife with D2 at Queens price point is an accomplishment. Queens may not be the most consistent when it comes fit and finish but they are the best working knives out there.

I'll agree they tend to not be as sharp out of the box as they should be. I had one with a wavy edge and grumbled the whole while as I reprofiled it but in the end it came out great. In fifty plus years of carrying traditionals the hair popping, scarry sharp edge doest't exist out of the box. The norm is obtuse and toothy with a bit of a burr, in other words usable. I profile all my knives anyway but with D2 it does take longer.

If you get a bad one follow these steps.
1. You can return it for an exchange or refund.
2. You can send it back to the factory for a replacement.
3. If you get another bad knife now you have a legitimate bioth.
4. bioth

 

[supratentorial]

For those who are new to knives and have a difficult time understanding the difference between the edge and the grind, it may be helpful to think about the *plunge* and *taper* as properties of the grind. A blade is not just blanked from steel. It is shaped by grinding. On traditional knives the grind is often a full flat grind. A problem with the grind can only be fixed by resurfacing the ENTIRE blade. In contrast, a dull edge can be fixed by sharpening. Anyone with a stone can sharpen an edge. Most folks don't have a proper knife making belt grinder to fix a bad grind. All of my criticisms above are about the GRIND, not the edge.

 

[btb01]

Btb01 your badge fell out? I didn't know they glued the s&m line badges, I would expect it was pinned. That's actually one thing I liked about the knife I recieved, the badge was definitely pinned. I have had a couple case badges and a boker badge fall out and it's really annoying. Luckily I didn't lose any of them.

It did, and it was definitely not pinned. I was lucky to find the shield, as I just looked down at the knife at some point and it was gone.

btb01, I'd recommend using a 2 part epoxy to set the shield instead of super glue if it comes off again.

Thanks for the recommendation, Jake! I just used what I had on hand at the time.

@ btb01, Barrett, I've got that same knife, and I couldn't be more disappointed in it. It was my first "modern" S/M purchase, and while it isn't a bear trap, it does have all the terrible f&f issues yours has. The blade was so far over to the liner, I couldn't even close the knife! I sent it in for warranty, and they fixed the "blade rub" but not the other issue I had with it. When open, the blade is still leaning so far to the left that it looks like a comics' prop knife. I have at least five other Queen made knives that have this horrible blade angle when open, and two of those have ridiculously bad grinds. That said, I have two vintage Queen made knives that are great (not perfect, but pretty close) and two Peanuts that really are perfect in every way. I think the promise of what those good knives of mine kept luring me back to try Queens, but the current offerings and experiences have put me off unless I can handle them in person. There are way too many other knives to choose from these days that it's just not worth the hassle to gamble my money. GEC has spoiled me for quality expectations, and at times I want to scream "if GEC can do it so consistently, why can't Queen!!!"

~Jim

Sorry to hear that, Jim. I had hoped that mine was just a fluke. They make some great looking knives, but I don't know that I'll be buying a recently produced Queen or S&M again any time soon.

 

[cchu518]

Wow these horror stories are like crawling out of the woodwork!

 

[Rookie82]

the closest I've come to what the Daniels are trying to accomplish in turning around Queen is when I became the manager of a dysfunctional department at a previous job. It took me quite a while to change the culture. You don't walk in on day one and hold a half hour meeting and have everything change. The employees are used to a certain way that things are done and you have to completely retrain them from the ground up. There is quite a bit of pushback, as they are used to getting away with putting forth less effort than what you're demanding. At the same time, you can't just walk in the door and fire everybody. You need somebody to work in order to keep the doors open. So, you make do with what you have and eventually replace people one at a time, keeping the ones that come around to your way of doing things. From what I understand, the person in charge of repairs was let go after the CutsLikeAKris incident. So, it's not like these things happen and ownership is turning a blind eye.

I have also heard from people at Queen knife shows that the previous owners before Daniels took over allowed a lot of nepotism to occur year after year. A lot of people were probably not the most qualified for the position that they were hired for. This is likely also a big part of what you said, that you can't just walk in the door and fire everyone in the building.

 

[White Crown]

For those who are new to knives and have a difficult time understanding the difference between the edge and the grind, it may be helpful to think about the *plunge* and *taper* as properties of the grind. A blade is not just blanked from steel. It is shaped by grinding. On traditional knives the grind is often a full flat grind. A problem with the grind can only be fixed by resurfacing the ENTIRE blade. In contrast, a dull edge can be fixed by sharpening. Anyone with a stone can sharpen an edge. Most folks don't have a proper knife making belt grinder to fix a bad grind. All of my criticisms above are about the GRIND, not the edge.

Yeah there have been too many people insinuating that we are whining about a wavy edge... I reprofile the edge on each and every knife I buy, and people at work pay me to do theirs because the word gets around, plus I explain why the edge will be easier to maintain after a reprofile. I've probably done well over 100 knives in the past few years. I find it a little insulting but I know it's just confusion of the posters, I will also add this clarification to the first post. I also want to point out that even rough rider has better primary grinds on their blades, and also that rough rider is the only other brand besides queen that I have ever seen with a noticable flaw in the grind. Knife brand's I'm using to make this statement: robeson, western, case, buck, frost(yep), gerber, kabar, emerson, benchmade, victorinox, wenger, boker, puma, crkt, camillus, Taylor brand chinese schrade, kershaw, sog, leatherman, and there are probably more I've also owned but am forgetting. I'm not sure how queen grinds(primary) their blades, and Ryan Daniels told me on the phone that it was a "ridiculous question", but perhaps it's time for the Daniels family to purchase some new tooling.

Edit: I just had a realization, perhaps the reason people are getting confused about wavy grinds is because no one else is manufacturing knives with them on the primary. I even had a conversation with knives ship free explaining how you cannot use the "make them the same way they used to" as an excuse because I have a robeson pocket-eze stock man from the 1930s with a near perfect primary grind on every blade, followed by them being aweaome and doing something I admittedly should not have asked for, exchanging it for a gec.

 

[TsarBomba]

I had a queen Mountain Man that was given to me as a gift and had great sentimental value. Handles were Amber carved stag bone. Anyway, the back spring snapped one day and I emailed a few people at Queen and they all said it could be fixed. So I sent it in with explicit instructions attached to the knife that if it could not be fixed that they do not replace it, as I would have rather had the broken knife instead of a new one. Long story short I got a new knife with I think African wood handles. I was very disappointed as they probably threw away a treasure. I sent a few emails and didn't get a response, so I was pretty turned off, I won't carry a queen again.

That is terrible, I can't imagine why that would happen given the kind of volume you'd expect Queen to be dealing with on a daily basis. It's not as if they're the U.S. mail...

Was this before or after the Daniels' family acquisition?

 

[TsarBomba]

Stag is not always as symmetrical as I would like it to be.

Frankly (and completely off-topic ) I like uneven stag, especially on a Barlow or coke bottle. Adds character and personality. Maybe it's because I'm slightly off-center myself, though.

I think ultimately what I'm going to do with my skate key Barlow is drop a note to the seller advising against business practices that hide some of the defects I observed, then (partly for Science, and for another data point to consider here on the porch when we have these inevitable Queen "to QC or not to QC" threads. I'm going to take a slew of pictures off the tripod for detail, both for Queen and for a decent "before". Then maybe the Daniels family can demonstrate just how they are planning on turning Queen's reputation around.

 

[White Crown]

I don't think it is off topic, it's relative to the validity of asymmetrical stag being a defect. I personally have always seen stag to be more asymmetrical, and that's on topic in that it shows this is not necessarily bad on queens part.

 

[White Crown]

The whole off topic thing is subjective but I'm sure you guys know I'm a little more loose with this by now. The train is not derailed because you stopped to let another person on, and maybe let a few off. :/ like this particular post would be a good example. The train is still on the tracks but has led us to this scenery about off topic posts

 

[Cory Hess]

I'm not sure how queen grinds(primary) their blades, and Ryan Daniels told me on the phone that it was a "ridiculous question", but perhaps it's time for the Daniels family to purchase some new tooling.

I'm inclined to agree with Ryan Daniels on this one. It is a pretty ridiculous question. I understand that you bought a knife that you were unhappy with. Queen owes it to you to repair or replace the knife, nothing more. Besides, I really don't see how it's of any consequence how they grind their blades. Either you're happy with them or you're not. If you are it doesn't matter how they achieve it. If you aren't again it doesn't matter, just stop buying their knives. You aren't entitled to anything more than that. Judging by the tone of your post I'd say you are lucky he didn't just ask you to stop buying their products altogether and hang up on you. That's what I would have done.

 

[White Crown]

Since we are here, I must inform you that my tone is not mine alone and is a reflection of the tone that he gave me, yes, I was in fact asking questions that may be considered by some as ridiculous, but I was an (over)inquisitive customer but not angry at the time of placing my call. Maybe it's because I called late on a friday, or maybe it's because the knife business isn't always held to the same standard as all other industries in regards to customers, but his elevated voice and tone pretty much did say "don't buy another knife from me". I don't do business with restauraunts, auto mechanics, or even convenience stores that speak to me like that because it is my money and I don't have to give it to you. I would like to also shadow the other post and add that he lied to me and said he'd get back to me, but then when i tried to give him my email, well he took his tone up a notch, said he actually wasnt, said the above quote, and also crassly told me if I really wanted to know is have to come tour the factory when they open it up once a year. My dialogue with him is actually the prime reason for my dissatisfaction with the company, and also that none of the 3 other people I emailed ever responded to me. If you know them personally, and know them to be different than I am painting them, please say so, but also please let them know how they are coming off differently than you know them to be to customers.

 

[Cory Hess]

After thinking about this for a minute I'm just going to update once my knife repair is completed. I allowed myself to get sucked into a conversation about people instead of focusing on the knives. If the OP's main issue is with customer service this thread belongs in GB&U instead of Traditionals. Happy hunting.

 

[supratentorial]

Sticking to the knives sounds good. I think it's important to keep in mind that a thread specifically about quality is going to concentrate a lot of negative examples. That's why I posted an example of an excellent grind above. Good experiences tend not to get posted. Similarly, you don't talk about the electric company when everything is working. You talk about the electric company when the power goes out.

Some folks have been a customer for a long time. Some have formed very strong opinions based on their experiences. I've owned at least several dozens of knives from Queen over the years. I've had more than my fair share of disappointment. On the other hand, I have some Queen-made Winchester and Moore Maker knives that I use more than knives from GEC or Case.

 

[WoodenChicken]

My Queen knife experience: bought 3 on the exchange--two were perfect and one had a bit of blade wobble, but not bad. These were used knives, and I still have and use them with no problems. Have purchased 3 new Queen knives, all of which were beautiful and functional. One had a factory defect (backspring snapped) but Queen sent me a new one, with the help of the dealer. The two that I have on me now are not "perfect" but pretty close to it. I have to agree with most of what Cory said about Queen, and I am happy to buy their knives. Like most of the good people on this porch, I want Queen to succeed. Even in this "transition" period, their knives really appeal to me and reflect a lot of soul, but that's just my two cents.