Question about mail tampering

[davec611]

I don't think so. That's exactly how a seller would react if they had honestly shipped the knife. If the seller honestly shipped the Emerson, when confronted with this story he knows one of two things happened, either the buyer is lying (which he's not going to say to the buyer) or someone from the postal service stole it.



Exactly! When you think about that, and the fact that postal workers are a profession that need and carry knives (as we've pointed out), then it doesn't seem that implausible. I would never buy from that particular seller again, but I also don't think it's conclusive that the seller is a conman either.

I agree with this. I keep thinking how would I react if I had received this from someone I sold something to. I will only say I would handle it differently.

I can only say with absolute certainty that I didn't receive the Emerson. I certainly wouldn't then post the incident on another forum where I don't believe he is a member and not post his name. The most important thing I WOULD NEVER DO is go online and report mail tampered to the postal inspector. Filing a false report is the kind of thing that the very least I would lose my job.

I posted hoping someone had a similar experience and could point me in the right direction.

Dave

 

[knerd]

I just CAN"T BELIEVE something bad has happened twice in two months and never before in the 5 years I have been selling on ebay, glocktalk and other forums.

Dave

People will try and scam you any chance they get nowadays. I've gotten a few things that were falsely advertised and it really sucks. If you keep emailing the seller he should start to crack, I had to do that with someone that was trying so hard to convince me I bought what was advertised when it wasn't the correct item. Just because the seller says he sent the right item doesn't mean he's telling the truth. I know where you're coming from by trying to see it from a trustworthy sellers point of view, but there are quite a few untrustworthy sellers out there. It would have been easy for the seller to cut open the side of the envelope and then tape it back up before he sent it off. Seeings how that's the first thing he told you to check when you contacted him about the wrong knife being mailed it really makes him seem guilty of not sending the correct knife.

 

[Josh K]

Here is the package. The only thing in the envelope was the Emerson box and the knife. Where does it say what the weight was/is?

I have placed a complaint on line with the Postal Inspector and I am trying to get the SO to find time for a report. We have had lots of cuts in rural Ohio but they are going to try and do a report for me.

The more I think about it the more it has to be the buyer, the seller or someone in the home of the two. There just doesn't seem time/opportunity for anyone else. I have asked the seller several times and have yet to get a response to whether he shipped from Post Office himself or placed in box or other.

I am contacting PayPal but since this was the second knife I bought off him i did send as gift this time. I can't dispute a gift.

The seller seems to have taken the stance that isn't the knife he mailed so it isn't his issue. My responsibility to figure it out. I am trying to keep thinking how would I be if I knew I mailed the right item and someone was telling me they received something different.

I just CAN"T BELIEVE something bad has happened twice in two months and never before in the 5 years I have been selling on ebay, glocktalk and other forums.

Dave

Take all the packaging (and knife and box) to the post office. Have them put it on a scale and compute (cost wise) how much it would cost to send it (I'm assuming first class with DC#). If it doesn't match $3.04 then it was switched by someone else, if it does match it was the buyer.

 

[davec611]

Take all the packaging (and knife and box) to the post office. Have them put it on a scale and compute (cost wise) how much it would cost to send it (I'm assuming first class with DC#). If it doesn't match $3.04 then it was switched by someone else, if it does match it was the buyer.

I will do that.
If I am correct, and it matches $3.04 then that is the knife that was shipped and it was someone prior to shipping. If it doesn't match then someone after it was weighed at Post Office swapped it out. Correct?

Dave

 

[Cougar Allen]

if it does match it was the buyer.

That's not so definitive. It's certainly worth investigating, but the post office doesn't charge extra for every hundredth ounce.

I'm sure somebody at Bladeforums has an Emerson and a scale....

 

[Josh K]

I will do that.
If I am correct, and it matches $3.04 then that is the knife that was shipped and it was someone prior to shipping. If it doesn't match then someone after it was weighed at Post Office swapped it out. Correct?

Dave

That would be my guess.

That's not so definitive. It's certainly worth investigating, but the post office doesn't charge extra for every hundredth ounce.

I'm sure somebody at Bladeforums has an Emerson and a scale....

Another fine idea. I was under the impression the knife was considerably different in size / shape / weight then the Emerson. It actually looks pretty close.

 

[maineboatman]

Dave,

I know from personal experience U.S. Postal Service theft does occur. My loss was +/-$40 so you have my sympathy as yours was worse. Several observations about my loss;

Label
The label on a plain brown cardboard box (10”x6”x6”) was a PayPal postage from a eBay auction. This alerted the thief that something valuable was in this box. The weight & length was perhaps knife-like to an interested thief, or merely knowing money had changed hands so something good would be in there.

Intrusion
The box was sliced carefully along an end but not on a sealed seam. Original tape was intact from the seller when I opened the box. Inspection revealed the slice was done carefully with a sharp object as no mangling of the cardboard occurred. Scotch tape was applied to the cut, just one piece, & was smoothed to make it clear. Hardly noticeable at all & would not have been seen by any casual inspection upon delivery. No attempt to re-weight the package was made.

USPS
Complete unconcern by the post office. Stuff happens. Most regrettable. War on terror items to the front of the line. Others, well we will get back to you. Not. My letter carrier’s entire response was “I didn’t do it!”. End of response or interest.

Conclusion
I believe the theft occurred in transit (not my carrier) & the thief is an opportunist who steals from packages if any clue of value is given (i.e. Insured, PayPal or eBay label, Delivery Confirmation, upscale company package, etc.). Thief MUST send on the package as the trail ends at their station, whereas even an empty box delivered leaves no clue where the theft happened. People who steal know they can & will do it without remorse when the chance comes up.

I now ALWAYS insure my sales & send via a Priority box Registered Mail if the item is worth more than $125.00 (an arbitrary amount I arrived at in a time/cost/hassle equation). I use a Priority Mail Flat Rate Box of the correct size, I tape the box over every edge & seam (anal, huh!). I do not use any envelope, ever, not even the USPS Priority Mail cardboard envelope unless the knife is too cheap to fuss over.

Good luck & remember most people are decent. Don’t let this bastard thief get you down. I lean towards the seller in your case being innocent & honest.


Sincerely,
Maineboatman

 

[James0723]

That package looks like an ideal target for a thieving postal employee. Relatively small, easy to open, and the delivery confirmation sticker shows it's something valuable.

Why would a thief go to the trouble of putting a junk knife in the package and taping it back shut and putting it back into the postal system?

Wouldn't they just take the knife and dump the packaging?

Well assuming it was a postal worker, the delivery confirmation may have had something to do with it. Delivery confirmation, while not officially billed as tracking, is scanned and tracked through the system, so if he just stole the package altogether 1. They would 100% know it was a USPS employee. and 2. They would have at least some idea of where the package suddenly disappeared from. You have to assume that it's not the only package this person is stealing, if they do it to one they're probably doing it to others, so they can't be too blatant about it.

That being said I don't think we have enough evidence one way or the other right now. Davec611, please get the cost to mail it back with the Frost knife inside and let us know what the results are.

I will do that.
If I am correct, and it matches $3.04 then that is the knife that was shipped and it was someone prior to shipping. If it doesn't match then someone after it was weighed at Post Office swapped it out. Correct?

Dave

It could help, but remember that distance is taken into account too, so if it costs that much to mail back to the sender then it may indicate that. I'm also not sure how much a little weight will change the price, get more info about this from the post office, when I used to sell things on ebay I know the biggest thing that changed the price was the distance I was shipping it. So an object that's a few tenths of an ounce different shipped to the same area may possibly be the same price, the post office will be able to tell you for sure.

 

[Tostig]

That sucks.... I hope your issue gets resolved but with my experience with USPS I would not count on it !!

Last year I won a knife on you know where.. it was a little over 90$ with S&H.

I got the package ( a very well taped smallish padded envelope ) as empty as the bank on a sunday. There was a little hole in the corner where - according to the post office personel I wasted my time with - my item must have 'fell' out during processing..

Nutshell , sometimes things happen. Out of all of my transactions , experiences , purchases , this has very rarely happened.


Hope you get whats you paid for but.... dont count on it.

 

[davec611]

I just returned from talking with the PO worker. He did weigh it and stated that the cost would be $3.04. He stated that doesn't prove that this was the knife that was shipped only the weight is close enough that the cost was the same. Therefore, no resolution.

I asked if I could do anything else besides the report that I did online with the postal inspector and they stated that is all they would have me do is fill the report out again. We discussed options and basically my impression from them is little can/will be done.

Seller maintains he sent correct knife and has finally agreed to inquire at his PO. Evidently by asking questions about how he shipped it I implied he had something to do with it and that angered him and lessened his motivation to assist me. The more his motivation to help was lessened the more I took it as he wasn't assisting and therefore must not want a resolution. The more we emailed the more we became set in our opinions.

Unless someone has a suggestion all I can do is wait but it seems unlikely that i will ever see the Emerson.

thanks
Dave

 

[JD Mandrell]

Evidently by asking questions about how he shipped it I implied he had something to do with it and that angered him and lessened his motivation to assist me

That attitude typically raises red flags to me.

If I were in his shoes, I would do everything to help light a fire under the PO, not get defensive and wash my hands of it.

 

[davec611]

That attitude typically raises red flags to me.

If I were in his shoes, I would do everything to help light a fire under the PO, not get defensive and wash my hands of it.

It does with me as well and that is why I believe I had an accusatory tone. I think the seller and I are finally on the same page. He has refunded 1/2 my money until this is figured out which I believe is fair. He is also going to the PO and file a complaint with postal inspector with my complaint number in it.

Now I just want to know how. If it is on my end that makes me question everything I buy or sell. I do that A LOT and that would really make me crazy. I am going to begin using colored tape (not clear) and tape all corners or openings to assist in noticing any tampers. I am also going to take some advice from this thread about cutting down chance of tampering/theft.

Thanks for everything and I will post if i hear anything else.

Dave

 

[huugh]

Phew. I always thought that the worst that could happen is that the whole package gets lost (stolen). That way, if it was insured, you would not have to take any loss and it would be in post's best interest to find out who lost/stole it, so that it would not happen again.

However, being it like this, this is obviously something the post can wash hands over, as the package was actually delivered...
Apart from molecular chance that an investigation (where they are not really motivated to try hard) will find a culprit, you are left screwed ...

That sucks. I feel sorry for you.

 

[GregS]

Who's the seller? Are they a Bladeforums member?

 

[CarlBagget]

You might try some of the tamper-proof packaging tape that many companies use.
It has "Check contents if seal is broken" or STOP signs on it. Office supply stores carry it.
Good luck with current dilemma.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

When I package a knife for shipment, I wrap the knife in a plastic shopping bag and put it back in its box, so it doesn't rattle around in there.

Then I wrap the box in layers of plastic shopping bags. This protects the contents from water damage and impact, and makes it impossible for a thief to just reach in and filch it. When I'm done, the contents do not shift around inside the mailing box.

I also include a piece of paper with the name and address I'm sending it to, a duplicate of the mailing label, in case the outer label gets damaged, the post office can retrieve the information.

All of this inside a free USPS Priority Mail box with Delivery Confirmation makes a reasonably hard target.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Apart from molecular chance that an investigation (where they are not really motivated to try hard) will find a culprit, you are left screwed ...

From years of working in the business, I am better aware than you of just how capable and dedicated the Postal Inspectors are in tracking down thieves. The problem is to get them quickly, since only recent thefts are likely to be recovered.

 

[huugh]

From years of working in the business, I am better aware than you of just how capable and dedicated the Postal Inspectors are in tracking down thieves. The problem is to get them quickly, since only recent thefts are likely to be recovered.

Well, we will see how this gets sorted out, won't we?

 

[mingyu]

Here is the package. The only thing in the envelope was the Emerson box and the knife. Where does it say what the weight was/is?

I have placed a complaint on line with the Postal Inspector and I am trying to get the SO to find time for a report. We have had lots of cuts in rural Ohio but they are going to try and do a report for me.

The more I think about it the more it has to be the buyer, the seller or someone in the home of the two. There just doesn't seem time/opportunity for anyone else. I have asked the seller several times and have yet to get a response to whether he shipped from Post Office himself or placed in box or other.

I am contacting PayPal but since this was the second knife I bought off him i did send as gift this time. I can't dispute a gift.

The seller seems to have taken the stance that isn't the knife he mailed so it isn't his issue. My responsibility to figure it out. I am trying to keep thinking how would I be if I knew I mailed the right item and someone was telling me they received something different.

I just CAN"T BELIEVE something bad has happened twice in two months and never before in the 5 years I have been selling on ebay, glocktalk and other forums.

Dave

Hello Dave, I'm very sorry about what happend to you. I also lost knives recently and I hope you can find your knife soon.
I think the thief must have the following things:
1. a strong motive
2. a cheap knife, has ben carried (the pocket clip looks old)
3. knows the shipping cost system
4. knows the importance of confirmation stick
5. has that kind of tape at hand
6. has enough time alone
So I think your knife may be stolen by a post office worker who has a cheap EDC knife and therefore knows your knife's value. He works either in the seller's local post office or one of the transshipment centers, has time to open the package (looks like he used his knife to open it), he knows the shipping cost system and confirmation stick, but he was nervous so he put his knife into the packageuse instead (it may have finger prints on it or can be recognized by his colleagues), used the tape at hand to close the package (from Thursday to Saturday afternoon, the knife might say in the local post office or a transshipment center for a longer time and in those places there must be tapes).

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Well, we will see how this gets sorted out, won't we?

No, actually, we probably won't. Each time a thief steals and the customer complains, the reports pile up. This one may be his undoing, but we won't know it unless he still has the knife. Otherwise, he gets fired, prosecuted, and imprisoned. But we wouldn't hear about that.