Question About Snakes

[1Tracker]

Yup, looks like ya got snake bit Joezilla! Yikes! copperhead nice shot of Nippy there for the folks at home! You covered all the bases...one thing though, the 'suction cups' you mentioned was the old time 'Cutter Snakebite Kit' though you did'nt say so. The Sawyer Extractor is quickly available to folks with the foresight to have it readily available when they head into snake country.

How long did the finger stay like that? Did you lose any tissue to the damage? What's the job/ work you're doing?

 

[CaptInsano]

Antivenin costs $2,000 a bottle and most of the time, you can only get it once.

Why is that?

Lots of fluid, NO BENEDRYL. It does not help, not potent enough to deal with the venom.

What treatments did you receive? What were the effects?

If your bloodwork is bad or you don't know what bit you, you'll probably want to go with antivenin.

How would you know what antivenin to use if you didn't know what had bitten you?

this looks great, thank god you didn't take the antivenin.

Why? What would have happened then?

NO ice
No benedryl
those suction cups things HARDLY work. The only way they feasibly would do a lick of good is if you had it ready the second after the snake bit you.

Which of these methods did you use?

Let it swell.

In what way does this help?

Snake bites are rarely fatal in the US.

Do you think that is due to the severity of the bites or due to the availability of treatment?

 

[1Tracker]

All good questions, Joezilla?

 

[Hog Feet]

The profession sucks at this point in time, I'm sorry if you are offended by that, at least you have seven lab coats.

Very sorry to here about your wife's troubles. As for you not being able to afford insurance... there are some things that people might be able to do without if they really cared about having health insurance:

Internet access and a computer
Smoking and Alcohol
Cable TV (heck any TV)
Eating out
Driving too much car
Buying too many Sawyer Extractors (I just had to add this one for you)

Your view of my profession does not surprise me in the least. Not simply because of your ignorant views of doctor, medicine, scientific studies, abstracts, people with degrees, people who you perceive as smarter than yourself, people in lab coats, MRSA, snakebites, Sawyer Extractors, etc., but because you seem like the kind of guy that likes to show how classy he really is.

 

[Don Rearic]

Very sorry to here about your wife's troubles.

I appreciate it.

As for you not being able to afford insurance... there are some things that people might be able to do without if they really cared about having health insurance:

Yeah, there are several things that some people might be able to do indeed. Let me give you a rundown since you're not really talking about "people" in general, but me.

Internet access and a computer

The computer I have was given to me by a friend, it's over five years old now. Thanks for caring.

The Internet access I have is $10.00 a month and through America Online, another particular brand of hell.

Smoking and Alcohol

Quit smoking well over a year ago, thanks again for the concern. For all the rest of you that do still smoke, that's good too because apparently that's the only way we can educate children now, taxing smokers, hear it all the time.

Alcohol?

If I averaged out the money I spend on alcohol, that would be, possibly $50.00 per year and that's REALLY pushing it. Just an FYI.

Cable TV (heck any TV)

I don't have CATV and I don't have Sat-TV. I don't know what you mean by "any TV," perhaps on your planet they charge you for watching regular television like they do in Britain, I don't know.

Eating out

Very rarely. Believe it or not. It IS too expensive.

Driving too much car

Yeah, yeah, well...I'll make sure I tell my Boss that tonight when I don't show up for work, "I'm sorry, but driving eighteen miles one way to work is preventing me from having health insurance, bad for the planet and, in general, well, driving to work means I'm 'living beyond my means' according to a Doctor I know."

That will go over real big.

Buying too many Sawyer Extractors (I just had to add this one for you)

Did you wash your solitary lab coat? Did you wash your hands? Do you have any complaints against you pending on your state's medical board or insurance board?

Your view of my profession does not surprise me in the least.

Well, it shouldn't! You think I am the only one?

Not simply because of your ignorant views of doctor, medicine, scientific studies, abstracts, people with degrees, people who you perceive as smarter than yourself, people in lab coats, MRSA, snakebites, Sawyer Extractors, etc., but because you seem like the kind of guy that likes to show how classy he really is.

Yes, all of us are ignorant but your profession kills over 100,000 people a year. You refer to an EMT as someone in the back of a truck. If it were not for EMT's, ER Docs wouldn't get the really injured patients to survive. You show a contempt for EMTs that shocks me.

All in all, you're an arrogant doctor, nothing new about that! You might be able to treat some terrific maladies Doc, unfortunately, you think ten bucks worth of AOL and a (very) few bucks a month for the occasional Beck's with Brats or Corona with homemade Fajitas or even a nice, cleancut screwdriver, averaged out, is going to pay for 40.00 per week insurance rates for shitty care, stuck in the waiting room of someone like you...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...that is 160.00 per month, would you like to cover the 100.00 and I will cover the rest? Every month?

No, of course not, that's not your responsibility. My responsibility is to try to take care of myself, I always carried insurance, I was priced out of it. Still carry the wife and son though, I guess I don't get no brownie points with you for that, what a shame.

You're enough to make the average person vote for Hillary Clinton's Healthcare Plan, but the truth of the matter is, people like you will not be adversely effected by socialized medicine, you'll still be able to be one tragedy away from "living beyond your means" as well. And if you were adversely effected by her healthcare plan, so what? What's the best medicine in the world if you cannot afford it? It's worthless at that point and I really don't care if you can't afford a second peni...I mean Corvette.

 

[Don Rearic]

Doctors and medical industry could be third leading cause of death in the U.S.

Wow...just wow. Say it like Christopher Walken would, it's better that way.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=doctors+kill+100,000+per+year

 

[Hog Feet]

Yes, all of us are ignorant but your profession kills over 100,000 people a year. You refer to an EMT as someone in the back of a truck. If it were not for EMT's, ER Docs wouldn't get the really injured patients to survive. You show a contempt for EMTs that shocks me.

All in all, you're an arrogant doctor, nothing new about that! You might be able to treat some terrific maladies Doc, unfortunately, you think ten bucks worth of AOL and a (very) few bucks a month for the occasional Beck's with Brats or Corona with homemade Fajitas or even a nice, cleancut screwdriver, averaged out, is going to pay for 40.00 per week insurance rates for shitty care, stuck in the waiting room of someone like you...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...that is 160.00 per month, would you like to cover the 100.00 and I will cover the rest? Every month?

No, of course not, that's not your responsibility. My responsibility is to try to take care of myself, I always carried insurance, I was priced out of it. Still carry the wife and son though, I guess I don't get no brownie points with you for that, what a shame.

You're enough to make the average person vote for Hillary Clinton's Healthcare Plan, but the truth of the matter is, people like you will not be adversely effected by socialized medicine, you'll still be able to be one tragedy away from "living beyond your means" as well. And if you were adversely effected by her healthcare plan, so what? What's the best medicine in the world if you cannot afford it? It's worthless at that point and I really don't care if you can't afford a second peni...I mean Corvette.

Do you have any idea how many people would die per year if it were not for my profession? Hint, way more than your 100K that die number.

I have no contemt for EMTs. My wife was one for many years and currently works as a medical director for 4 different fire and rescue departments. I personally volunteered to go into New Orleans after Katrina and Rita to give medical care to those the rescuers and LEOs that so many neglected.

I applaud your efforts to live a better lifestyle and taking care of your family. I know it is not easy. However, there are many who spend on luxuries that should not. If you are not one of them that is a credit to you.

Caring for your family is your responsibility. You seem to acknowledge that yet you want Hillary Care for all? It does not make sense.

Your contempt for me as a proffessional is strange considering that you never met me or spent one minute in my waiting room (longest wait I ever had was less than one hour, most are less than twenty minutes if they show up on time).

I don't have a corvette, and have no need for a second appendage. If you equate sports cars with manhood, maybe you should save your money for a fast car instead of buying the wife insurance (she might be happier)

 

[shaldag]

For those who consider that Western medicine is harmful, you can always opt out. No one forces you to go to doctors or hospitals. You may feel that there are alternatives. there are many new-age shops, "alternative medicine" specialty shops, etc. In fact, if you live near New Orleans, you could patronize a few of the shops in the eastern end of the Vieux Carre that specialize in certain forms of alternative medicine.

Furthermore, anyone who believes that healthcare prices are set by individual doctors is naive at best. Policies and prices are set by corporations, in particular insurance corporations. The average doctor has as much influence on those prices as does the average knifemaker--that is to say--none at all.

Now, let's hear it from all those greedy MDs who are just in it for the money.

How deeply in debt did you go to pay for University and Medical School?

C'mon, you can tell us--how many cockroaches lived in your apartment while in Med School? Or were you in dorms, where even the cockroaches have fleas?

How many all-nighters/week on average did you have to pull?
Wasn't the neuroanatomy final fun? And pathology was a blast.

Do a lot of partying in College/Medical School?

Were those internships and residencies fun? Just like on TV?

 

[Don Rearic]

Do you have any idea how many people would die per year if it were not for my profession? Hint, way more than your 100K that die number.

That's quite true Doc, however, don't you think we can take that number down by two-thirds...at least? Or, do you find that number of medical mistakes resulting in death acceptable?

You know...Saint Agnes Hospital in Baltimore...a few years back, they amputated a diabetic patient's leg. Turned out, it was the wrong leg. Some people would want to limit the amount of money that man could collect...we're getting far afield here Doc, but, suffice it to say, the medical profession has A LOT of problems and I don't think "we save more than we kill" is really a good argument against change.

I have no contemt for EMTs. My wife was one for many years and currently works as a medical director for 4 different fire and rescue departments.

I'm glad, however, I do believe the person you referred to as a guy in the back of a truck is a Lt. in EMS.

I personally volunteered to go into New Orleans after Katrina and Rita to give medical care to those the rescuers and LEOs that so many neglected.

It was tragic and not our best moment, to say the least. I'm glad people like you made it better for those injured.

I applaud your efforts to live a better lifestyle and taking care of your family. I know it is not easy. However, there are many who spend on luxuries that should not. If you are not one of them that is a credit to you.

No, I'm not one of them.

Caring for your family is your responsibility. You seem to acknowledge that yet you want Hillary Care for all? It does not make sense.

Doc, you're a learned man, what doesn't make sense to you?

Let's set something straight right now. I'm a fairly conservative person with very few liberal views, OK? I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me. I think people have responsibilities but if you want them to meet those responsibilities and you want them to be successful, you have to create an environment where they can and allowing insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies to simply do what they want has destroyed the environment where people could afford healthcare. We're sniping at one another, I hope a lot of that is in fun, that's why I use emoticons. But, to be serious, the insurance problem is not the problem of the Doctors, it is also not because of medical malpractice. It is because a very few people at the top of those companies don't want to take the pay cut the rest of us have to do occasionally. They're greedy.

As for "Hillary Care," you have to stop listening to the conservatoads on this issue, Doc. You see, when Mitt Romney passed his version/vision of "reforming" health insurance in Taxaxhussetts, do you know what he did? He just made it punishable by a fine if you didn't have health insurance. The Republicans applaud this. Health Insurance Companies love it because now they get to reap the benefits their brethren in Auto-Insurance have been doing for years, they have a captive audience that has to pay them by law. Of course, many people in that State cannot afford the insurance and they are being fined.

Hillary Clinton and other guy that she is currently running against? I've heard enough of it to realize that they basically have the same thing in store. She intends on making insurance mandatory. Republican does it, it's bad (AND IT IS A BAD WAY TO DO IT) but she does it? It's great in people's eyes. Wait until they have to show proof of insurance or they get fined or their wages garnished.

So, no, I would much prefer that we stepped back to about 1990 when people could afford insurance.

Your contempt for me as a proffessional is strange considering that you never met me or spent one minute in my waiting room (longest wait I ever had was less than one hour, most are less than twenty minutes if they show up on time).

No, Doc, I showed contempt for you when you jumped in the ring and took a shot at me. You also do not know me. I have contempt for your profession because I've had bad experiences with it. Am I supposed to adore it even through bad experiences? Am I supposed to ignore everything bad and focus only on the good?

As for scheduling issues, well, that be a problem at times. I think a lot of Doctor's either need to learn or to teach the women that run their offices that it's called an "appointment" for a reason. When you make an appointment, that's because you expect to be meeting someone at a certain time. Of course, you already know that, many do not because many Doctors really don't care and they don't, as you stated earlier, dedicate their lives to the betterment of mankind or any such lofty goal...they don't care, as long as the check clears.

I don't have a corvette, and have no need for a second appendage. If you equate sports cars with manhood, maybe you should save your money for a fast car instead of buying the wife insurance (she might be happier)

Judging by the way some people drive...they are apparently compensating for something...somewhere.

As for me, yeah, if I had all bases covered, I would probably opt for a new Shelby (Retro) GT Mustang, how about you?

 

[Joezilla]

Why is that?


What treatments did you receive? What were the effects?


- I had morphine, which kept me up in pulses and then put me to sleep, it didn't do much to help out with the pain. The hyrdocodine helped alot more. They also administered IV fluids. I had to have some stretch therarpy just to get muscle memory back in.


How would you know what antivenin to use if you didn't know what had bitten you?

-Most of the vipers in the US use the same time of crofab. The other type would be coral snakes, rare in my area. In Fla and other more southern locations they are more common. Coral snakes are rear fanged and have to CHEW hard to really get a good injection. (no pain in the area, not like a viper bite, its a nuerotoxin) Bitespread, immediate effects, and specimens all help. If you are serious, you should know what kind of snakes are in your area among other hazards.

Why? What would have happened then?

Antivenin costs $2,000 a bottle and most of the time, you can only get it once. I had been envenomated by a copperhead and decided to opt out of the antivenin. I deal with snakes up close on a daily basis and if I were to have a mishap with a cottonmouth or a timber later on I would be SOL. That may be something that you will want to weigh.

You should only use antivenin as a treatment once. Your body will not react the same way a second time as it would the first. Running the risk of having more of a reaction to the antivenin than the actual bite.



Which of these methods did you use?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joezilla View Post
NO ice
No benedryl
those suction cups things HARDLY work. The only way they feasibly would do a lick of good is if you had it ready the second after the snake bit you.
Which of these methods did you use?

- none of them since they don't work.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Joezilla View Post
Let it swell.
-In what way does this help?

-Swelling is a natural inflammation to dilute the amount of venom in the area, that way it spreads it out a little bit more so the severity to the bite area isn't as bad. Not saying that if you get a bee sting or something to that effect don't ice it, but snake venom all in one spot can cause even worse complications like even worse necrosis.


Do you think that is due to the severity of the bites or due to the availability of treatment?

-Availability of treatment/ doctors aren't cutting and sucking, applying tourniquets, or any of that stuff any more.


---------------------------------------------------------

Yup, looks like ya got snake bit Joezilla! Yikes! copperhead nice shot of Nippy there for the folks at home! You covered all the bases...one thing though, the 'suction cups' you mentioned was the old time 'Cutter Snakebite Kit' though you did'nt say so. The Sawyer Extractor is quickly available to folks with the foresight to have it readily available when they head into snake country.

?

Negative, I meant the extractor you are talking about. it does not work well at all.




Suction for venomous snakebite: A study of “mock venom” extraction in a human model☆
View original article referenced

Michael B Alberts, MDaCorresponding Author Informationemail address, Marc Shalit, MDa, Fred LoGalbo, MDb

Received 7 March 2003; received in revised form 28 July 2003; accepted 4 August 2003.
Abstract
Study objective

We determine the percentage of mock venom recovered by a suction device (Sawyer Extractor pump) in a simulated snakebite in human volunteers.
Methods

A mock venom (1 mL normal saline solution, 5.0 mg albumin, 2.5 mg aggregated albumin) radioactively labeled with 1 mCi of technetium was injected with a curved 16-gauge hypodermic needle 1 cm into the right lateral lower leg of 8 supine male volunteers aged 28 to 51 years. The Sawyer Extractor pump was applied after a 3-minute delay, and the blood removed by suction was collected after an additional 15 minutes. A 1991 Siemens Diacam was used to take measurements of the radioactive counts extracted and those remaining in the leg and body.
Results

The “envenomation load,” as measured by mean radioactivity in the leg after injection, was 89,895 counts/min. The mean radioactivity found in the blood extracted in the 15 minutes of suction was 38.5 counts/min (95% confidence interval [CI] −33 to 110 counts/min), representing 0.04% of the envenomation load. The postextraction leg count was less than the envenomation load by 1,832 counts/min (95% CI −3,863 to 200 counts/min), representing a 2.0% decrease in the total body venom load.
Conclusion

The Sawyer Extractor pump removed bloody fluid from our simulated snakebite wounds but removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite.


-I'm contacting the library to see if we have a subscription so I can get the full article.

 

[Lycosa]

OCHEEBA---waits for you---on sacred mountain.

 

[Joezilla]

How long did the finger stay like that? Did you lose any tissue to the damage? What's the job/ work you're doing?

Finger stayed like that,in varying degrees of necrosis, for about two weeks. No tissue damage, full dexterity, slight tingling and there is a slight malformation at the site.

I was helping with a mark and recapture study in south carolina involving snakes at night. Really fun stuff!