Question for military or ex military personnel (soldiers)

[Max.smolkin]

Thats the 4th from wright its the first i made with persise heat treet made from o1

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[GatorMedic]

One of my friend's additional job in the military is making purchase orders for her unit and sometimes others. On her deployment to Africa last year the SOF units were issued Esee 4. The rest of the troops weren't issues fixed blades, but rather the Benchmade Adamas folder and a Leatherman MUT. She's been in for a decade now with two deployments to Afghanistan, one to Iraq, and one to Africa. She has been issued mostly Benchmade folders over that time (AFO II, blacked out Triage, Adamas, and a few others I don't remember off the top of my head).


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[rustyrazor]

Rustyrazor,,,,, I only had served mandatory military service in post communist era within middle of Europe, our regiment has been issued at the time UTON Vzor 75 fixed combat knives and bayonets along assault rifles. As I observed, we did find a lot of use for UTON knives issued to us, whether it was day to day duties, mostly of utility use. We has never been deployed to any conflicts, neither war actually, but these fixed knives comes handy a lot to most of us and were frequently used during exercises, trainings, or after within time off.

I can only fully agree with your addition and point of view, there is a good number of reasons why fixed blades are still issued within military and across many units...

At the same time, I do understand guys who find them obtrusive in some terms and preferably opt for pocket knives or multitools, but for many units, the fixed blade is still a "must"...for others it's just not.Personally, if deployed into any hot spot or conflict, I d definitely carry at least one fixed blade and back up too. One never know, where he end up and how will events unfold....

That is exactly how I see it as well and I do know very well how weight affects what you will take when grams and ounces matter... large knives do tend to get in the way, but for me personally the last pieces of kit I would leave behind if I was on the run would be my fixed blade knife, a compass, a poncho and a fire starter. Any person with a bit of experience can get by with those long enough to be rescued in a worst case scenario situation. Not saying I'd throw my carbine or pistol away without a decent reason and a radio is a soldier's best friend these days, but a good knife has gotten many a person out of many a horrible situation over the years.

 

[sodak]

Kukris are best left to Gurkhas.

As an aside, I'm always amazed how the rest of the world knows (and respects) the Gurkhas, but here in the US they are relatively unknown. I've always scratched my head over that...

 

[sabre cat]

As an aside, I'm always amazed how the rest of the world knows (and respects) the Gurkhas, but here in the US they are relatively unknown. I've always scratched my head over that...

I have to agree. The funny thing is everyone knows about their knife but has no clue where it comes from or it's history.

It is my understanding that the Gurkhas are hand picked with tryouts in their homeland. I don't think their pay is the greatest and the retirement is next to nothing.

 

[leghog]

I d like to get involved military or ex-military personnel from arround the world that served or still serving on active duty and ask them following questions :

1.) How many fixed blades do you usually carry on various assignments in the field and what exactly they are or (were)? brands /models

One and it was usually in my ruck.

Mostly I carried a Glock M81 Field Knife I bought on Victory Drive right off Fort Benning. As I recall I paid $24 for that knife in the early 1980s. I think you can still get them for ~$30.

In the early 90's I bought a KaBar at the Camp Smith, Hawaii PX but didn't carry that knife nearly as much as I did the Glock.

In one unit I was issued an Ontario Jet Pilot Survival Knife. Never carried it. Never used it.

I really only used a fixed blade when in Indochina or the South Pacific searching for POWs/MIAs/KIAs-NBR in the early 90s. Then I used one often. Never really used one otherwise.

2.) Do /did you prefer to invest significant amount of money for desired premium knife of your own choice,even investing a lot of money or - rather relied on affordable option of average knife,or army issue only?

Soldiers can't really afford to spend a ton of money on something like a field knife, and most often buy what's available in the PX or MCSS or right off post if there's a shop catering to them there.

3.) What knife surprised you very much and never let you down and what knife failed and let you down when needed?

No surprises. No failures. I still have both of those knives.

4.) What "all around" fixed blade would you recommend to other soldiers based on your own experience? (here you can also specify weather and climate conditions if any in particular)

I'd carry the Glock again.

5.) How do you maintain your edge /knife in field, if you do? (sharpening /oiling etc)

Stone and any light weight oil.

Thanks for all replies.(doesn't need to go necessary from point 1 to point 5) please post photos of your military knife companions - if possible!

US Army 1981-2004. 22 years, 11 months, and 29 days.

 

[leghog]

I was given a Victorinox Swiss Champion in Cambodia in the early 90s by who was then CBS's Rome Bureau Chief. I've carried it in my kit ever since everywhere I've gone. Now that knife I've used and used and used everywhere including Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan. I won't leave home on an extended trip without it. It has literally been all over the world.

 

[stabman]

My grandfather carried a Fairbairn–Sykes dagger in World War Two.
It did not help him during the disaster at Dieppe...but neither did the pistol, the rest of the troops with him, or the tanks.

The rest of his life he carried medium sized slip-joints...but the only piece of gear from wartime he missed was the Fairbairn–Sykes knife.
So my dad and I got him a 50th anniversary of D-Day version and gave it to him; he really appreciated it.
Still was able to maneuver it deftly as all hell too; of course, he'd trained with the British Commandos back then.

 

[Frailer]

I am surprised that non of the Randall's popped up yet,but these were probably very rare and also too pricey even for veterans from Vietnam or Korean wars...

I've known several soldiers who *owned* Randalls, but only two who *carried* them. Both were captains in the late 80s, and I never saw either of them use them to cut anything. They would, however, take them out and show them to you at the slightest provocation.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I have to agree. The funny thing is everyone knows about their knife but has no clue where it comes from or it's history.

It is my understanding that the Gurkhas are hand picked with tryouts in their homeland. I don't think their pay is the greatest and the retirement is next to nothing.

The Gurkhas are still recruited in Nepal. After a mighty political wrangle their pay and pensions have been brought up to modern standards. They can stay in the UK once finished their time. Still an integral and highly valued part of the British Armed Forces. Respect.
Gurkhas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqJZcpysSzg
Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh6EfnHN3zw


The Glock and Sissipuukko M95 Ranger knife. Both are inexpensive, difficult to break, and nice and slim so don't take up much room on a belt order. (They don't hold an edge that long but easy to maintain). Perfect for digging mud out of tank tracks; lose it just get another.

When doing crowd control then the last thing you need is a knife that some idiot could grab. Just another reason not to have a big knife. Sure other scenarios one has its appeal.

 

[DudeoftheDesert]

There were 8 of us living in a hooch, all Huey crew chiefs. We were all issued Camillus fixed blade survival knives, but I found it more practical to carry the TL29 electrician's folder that came from the toolbox. I was sitting on my foot locker one night, getting ready to write a letter home, sharpening a pencil with my just sharpened TL29. My good buddy York walked by, and being the jokester that he was, reached out and pulled my mustache. It hurt, so I swiped at his hand with my right hand, the one holding the knife. He let out a yelp, "Wes, you cut me!" Blood was spurting from his hand. I had cut him clear to the bone just above the thumb joint. I felt terrible, I had cut my good buddy. Another guy (Bentley) ran out and got a truck, and we wrapped York's hand and drove him to the aid station. They took him into the treatment room, while I waited out front, cussing myself for cutting my friend. A few minutes after he went in, a Sgt stuck his head out the door and yelled, "We need 6 units of O positive blood. Any you guys have O pos., get in here now." I felt even worse. I was convinced I had cut an artery and York was bleeding to death. I went inside, they laid me down, and started sucking my O+ out of me as fast as they could. About half way through the procedure, I overheard enough to realize the emergency need for blood was not for York, but for some other guy who had been in a fight at the E.M. beer tent, and been cold cocked on the head with a metal chair. Yep, we were a combat unit, flying assaults against the V.C. a couple of times per week, but we still had to be idiotic enough to bloody each other.
They finished drawing my blood, gave me a glass of orange juice and a shot of Old Crow, and we drove York back to the hooch. And if things weren't bad enough, York reminded me that just a few days earlier one of out pilots had accidentally shot himself in the hand with his .45. That had resulted in our C.O. calling a formation and informing the whole company that we needed to pull our head out of the dark place, that we were in enough danger from our routine flying duties, and that the next accidental injury would mean an Article 15 punishment. So York and I created a story about his "accidental" injury.
That's the war story of the day from this old codger. Thanks for asking, Mobster.

 

[BOHAWG]

Thats the 4th from wright its the first i made with persise heat treet made from o1

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Like your work!

 

[Jens Schuetz]

We were issued the left over East German AK bayonets.
I had my own fixed blade though never used it except for fun stuff.
Anything proper I could have ever used it for was usually covered by a better tool for the task. Hatchet to make fire wood. Shears for barb wire. Chainsaw to take down trees etc.

Carrying a knife, even the issued one was usually discouraged if it didn't fit the topic of the training plan and that was maybe twice a year.

Anyways if I had to go again and they'd be more open, even if I don't need a blade, I'd carry a Kukri.
Extra weight? Sure! But an extra 2 pounds for me is still easier than for the guy 2/3rd my size who just has his normal gear and backpack. Actually makes it more fair in a way.

 

[Max.smolkin]

Like your work!

Thanks

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[BladeScout]

This line of thinking (which is funny by the way) makes sense in terms of conventional warfighting (ex. USA vs USSR), but is incorrect in an era where modern military conflicts are not between industrial superpowers. Not having some form of edged weapon, folder or fixed, could present a problem for the average soldier, to include the non-infantry types that erroneously believe they are serving out of harms way. Look at how ISIS fights and how "lone wolf" individuals have literally run up to military personnel in places like Israel, and attacked them at point blank range. If someone cannot reach their primary weapon, they had better hope they are either the best hand-to-hand combat fighter in their unit, or carrying something else.

I dont agree.
With few exceptions, there are very few instances in modern warfare, where a knife is needed for combat.

There are different scenarios to ponder.

As for Israeli MIL personnel, thats a bad example to choose; most if not all are required to carry a firearm. Even off duty. You'll see the strange sight of an IDF woman soldier on the beach in a bikini and rifle slung.

Further more, even if an attack appears out of the blue, your training or your knife wont matter an iota. Imagine being in a super market line and the guys behind you decides to stab you. You get no warning.

A recent scenario in Europe - two German police officers on foot patrol, a loon stabs one of them, lady police officer calmly draws HK and shoots attacker dead. No amount of combat training would have helped the first officer from being stabbed, as the attack happened out of the blue and Im pretty certain, that the lady cop was happy to have a gun.

Knife and/or hand to hand combat training was probably the farthest from her mind.

 

[BladeScout]

I wasn't going to add more to the thread as I had said enough.
Modern soldiering includes a lot of peace keeping and policing. Rear echelons are also more exposed as the front line is less defined.
A knife isn't much use against car bombs or random attacks. Personal defence remains the issue assault rifle. If you can't carry that then ensure you have a handgun. Heck, even the British Army now issues handguns to anyone who wants one (bought some Glocks).

When any well dressed terrorist has a AK, then a knife just doesn't come into the equation.

For all the romance of martial arts and knives fighting they really don't play any part in reality. A soldier who can hump kit miles and endure months of boredom in uncomfortable conditions miles from home, while still being ready to react intelligently, with absolute aggression if need be, at the drop of a hat is far more useful. Sure do the personal training if that is what you are into, but just make sure you can call down a fire mission too... and on the right grid square.

War Studies put knives in improved weapons category which amounts to a fraction of 1% of all casualties. Its why a knife usefulness is judged on the weight and its utility. Why a multitool wins hands down.
Don't get me wrong I love a good knife.

Pretty much this.

 

[BladeScout]

I'll caveat my post first off by saying that I'm a military member who makes knives and sells them primarily to other military members so, that being the case, I may be a little biased and this could be taken as a slight conflict of interests from the outside looking in, however I can assure you that I don't make enough money off the very few knives I sell to sway my feelings either way and this comes from my own personal experience. My first point is on self defense.. Yes, soldiers carry a rifle/carbine as a primary and a lot (including myself) carry a pistol as my EDC at work, but to think there is zero use for a knife as a backup for your backup is a little naïve. Things happen, and sometimes things happen in close quarters which prohibit the use of the long gun altogether and can seriously limit access and use of your pistol, which leaves a little room to rethink leaving a knife at home. That's the last think i'll say about knife use for self defense as IMHO it is fairly limited and is such a small percentage of what most soldiers will ever use a knife for, which leaves me with the reasons I actually still carry a medium fixed blade at all times. There are literally thousands of times when I have used my fixed blade for every other use possible and I can honestly say that I wouldn't be without one if I had any choice in the matter at all. Things happen, and when they do, it is the educated soldier who will have the very best chance of surviving whatever situation they are in at the time, and if you can't think of the time when a decent fixed blade would come in handy then you've just never experienced enough situations, so i'll list a few that might be slipping most people's minds in this age of drones and GPS, such as:
building shelter
building a hide/OP
fire prep
food prep
clearing brush/shooting lanes
fieldcraft/bushcraft
building entry/breaching light doors or windows
just to name a few... I've used mine in all climates, in all manner of situations throughout the world and I personally wouldn't be without one.

p.s. GREENJACKET, just to assure you that I'm not a yesteryear soldier with no ties to modern military combat, I can call a fire mission if I have to, lol. I have spent the last 8 years in SOF and most of that as a JTAC imbedded with some of the worlds elite... most of whom carry a fixed blade of some sort. most of those of the under $150 range and medium sized such as the sog seal pup type knives and absolutely ZERO huge Rambo style knives as they all get left behind once the soldier realizes how large and obtrusive they are.

That is all well and good. Im not saying that there is absolutely NO use for a fixed knife in any scenario. Im saying there is not MUCH use for a fixed blade and that a multitool or small folder might be of better use.

if you can't think of the time when a decent fixed blade would come in handy then you've just never experienced enough situations

I realize, that according to you, my opinion might not count for much after only a piddling a couple of tours to Astan and a trip to Iraq.

In theory and for certain other countries, your ideas are all well and good but in regards to the warfare, that the Coalition have been involved in for years now, I have only a few (rhetorical) questions:

building shelter
building a hide/OP
fire prep
food prep
clearing brush/shooting lanes
fieldcraft/bushcraft
building entry/breaching light doors or windows

Building shelter from what!
Building a hide/OP from what!
Fire prep from what! (besides fires can be seen from a looong distance).
Food prep from what and why (Considering self heating MREs).
Clearing brush/shooting lanes in what! (Apart from GZ (not the GZ in Iraq either) where you might have a point, but even there people are constantly on the move, so none of the points listed are needed).
Fieldcraft/bushcraft. Using what materials!
Building entry/breaching light doors or windows (For entry through walls/building no knives were used, as there were breaching charges).

This is of course only standard scenarios, Im sure other scenarios can be listed. But for the majority of soldiers, big fixed knives are most likely not a priority.

BTW I like fixed knives - Im just not much of a romantic and I did notice that a few carried big knives, but after endless hours on patrol first time out, these were usually ditched in favor of small folders and tools .

Neither do I have a vested interest in promoting knives as Im no knife maker and dont cater to soldiers buying knives. Not that there is anything wrong with that, mind you.
Who wouldnt want to have a nice knife as a way to remember ones tour.

 

[shinyedges]

Bladescout raises good points, desert warfare doesn't have the same need for a large fixed blade. Thousands of miles of tree less feature less terrain, obviously Afghanistan and other areas have mountainous topography.

The question is has the fixed blade become obsolete for the AVERAGE soldier? I don't know. I'll say my opinion, in a world where air strikes, artillery, and long range weapons are more and more prevelent, especially in a desert environment, the need for a large fixed blade is extremely low in most cases.

That said, the same disclaimer I said earlier still stands. Specific units have different needs and might require fixed blades. But they are the exception not the rule.

If a soldier wants to lug one around, be my guest though.

 

[BladeScout]

Specific units have different needs and might require fixed blades. But they are the exception not the rule.

If a soldier wants to lug one around, be my guest though.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[jackknife]

Bladescout raises good points, desert warfare doesn't have the same need for a large fixed blade. Thousands of miles of tree less feature less terrain, obviously Afghanistan and other areas have mountainous topography.

The question is has the fixed blade become obsolete for the AVERAGE soldier? I don't know. I'll say my opinion, in a world where air strikes, artillery, and long range weapons are more and more prevelent, especially in a desert environment, the need for a large fixed blade is extremely low in most cases.

That said, the same disclaimer I said earlier still stands. Specific units have different needs and might require fixed blades. But they are the exception not the rule.

If a soldier wants to lug one around, be my guest though.

I think for the average soldier, the fixed blade knife has become obsolete.

Modern warfare has become a highly mechanized and mobile operation. It's going to be rare in todays warfare that the GI is going to have to be building shelters, cooking, or most of the stuff that rustyrazor lists. Bushcraft? Fire prep? To heat our C-rations, ( I know I'm dating myself) we used a pinch of C4, that burns great. Sometimes we had heat tabs on hand. Other times small twigs were gathered for light kindling for a quick fire of short duration. Doesn't take long to heat a can of "Meat patties, individual type" or whatever olive green can we had. Out on patrol we were NOT building bonfires! And I understand the modern MRE's are actually self heating?

Southeast Asian jungle is not a great place for a fixed blade knife. A machete is more suited to the terrain, and even then, it's not really needed. Last thing you want is to make a bunch of chopping noises in the jungle country where you have guys in black PJ's with good hearing. Thats what pancho's and pancho liners are for. I never served in the mid=east, but I did do some duty in Libya, at the old Wheelus AFB, and the North African terrain was flat to rolling desert with very little vegetation at all, outside of an oasis.

I think the knife industry and knife makers need to stir the imagination of young soldiers who don't know better yet, to sell the knives they make, but have little real world value. With modern military operations, running out of ammo is the last thing you have to worry about. And if you do, and you now have an empty M16 and the other guys have loaded AK-47's, please tell me how a knife is going to help you? I'd love to know. If the enemy does close in, then the army gave us a great pointy thing that went on the end of our rifle. It was called a bayonet. If a bayonet is not available, the muzzle jammed into a face, or a butt stroke to the head works great. If your rifle does run dry, why drop it and pull some little 6 icy blade knife when you have a couple feet of rifle that can block, ram, and bash with? Heck, you cn do way more damage with an entrenching tool than a knife.

I know we're on a knife forum, and some here are knife makers with an interest in selling their products, but sometimes the real world has to be acknowledged. Knives are cool, and we love them. They are fun to collect, and to dote over. But in the real world, their use has went down a bit. We're not using muzzle loading muskets anymore, and with modern air support, transportation, and communication, the use and importance of a knife has faded a bit. A sharp piece of steel is still a good thing, but it needs to be kept in perspective.