Question for military or ex military personnel (soldiers)

[GermanyChris]

I think for the average soldier, the fixed blade knife has become obsolete.

I agree.

With modern military operations, running out of ammo is the last thing you have to worry about.

I disagree..

I've spent weeks in place high enough you can't get a cargo helicopter to we had to go down and get resupply of water, food, and ammunition then lug all the stuff back up. Afghanistan was proof that terrain can and does slow and at times stop a modern military.

 

[ViperPilot]

Price. Most young soldiers don't have a lot of disposable income and there are better things to spend money on. Certainly at basic training everything is provided for, including a pointy bayonet, and individuality isn't encouraged. Even after that few are going to spend much, and then probably at a PX. The popular models are most often those found in the PX shops.
Every catalogue now has knives of every tactical style and something for every pocket. But still soldiers only carry what they have to, and only buy things they need. A boys night out on beer takes priority, or the girlfriend. NCO's and officers are more likely have the disposable income, and the authority to do as they please, to buy something "sporty" like a good knife.

Kukris are best left to Gurkhas.

Mechanised troops may need choppers for camouflaging vehicles but training areas aren't for doing it in, as these areas are too hard used and are often places of scientific interest, nature reserves; so leave the flora alone.
Anything more is because its from a specialised course or specialised unit that some additional tool might be of use.

The rest is due to marketing and soldiers are like everyone else. What bloke isn't a succour for a good knife? (Quite a lot actually, bunch of pansies! In truth so many weren't allowed them when growing up, so don't have a clue.)

Finally, I've broken a Gerber Guardian, similar build to a MKII. I've also broken a EK. Get something that will bend rather than snap. The old Randals were good tough utility blades of their age, probably still as good, but way too expensive.

That's why I said the Gerber Mark II is for specialized tasks!!!! Like sentry removal.....

 

[PNWhovian]

I d like to get involved military or ex-military personnel from arround the world that served or still serving on active duty and ask them following questions :

1.) How many fixed blades do you usually carry on various assignments in the field and what exactly they are or (were)? brands /models

Usually just one, a CRK shadow IV
2.) Do /did you prefer to invest significant amount of money for desired premium knife of your own choice,even investing a lot of money or - rather relied on affordable option of average knife,or army issue only?

Towards the last part of my career I was able to afford more expensive knives but pretty much stuck with Cold Steel folders(cheap and no tears if lost/broken) and my Shadow
3.) What knife surprised you very much and never let you down and what knife failed and let you down when needed?
The Cold Steel Voyager 3" plain edge clip was a huge surprise. I ended up gifting it to one of my soldiers before retiring. Biggest disappointment(s) were the SOG and Leatherman multi tools. Broke a few and never trusted them since

4.) What "all around" fixed blade would you recommend to other soldiers based on your own experience? (here you can also specify weather and climate conditions if any in particular)
Currently I would wholeheartedly recommend a RMK model 14, pretty much any fixed Strider, a Survive knife, Fehrman(if they were still making knives), many of the Bark River lineup and so on. Not overly concerned about weather as minimal care and regular use will see to your knife.

5.) How do you maintain your edge /knife in field, if you do? (sharpening /oiling etc)

I always carried a blue/red DMT dual stone and a tuf cloth or two.

Thanks for all replies.(doesn't need to go necessary from point 1 to point 5) please post photos of your military knife companions - if possible!

Answers in green.
US Army 1985 - 2006

 

[GREENJACKET]

That's why I said the Gerber Mark II is for specialized tasks!!!! Like sentry removal.....

For all their reputation the Gerber aren't even good at that. Not that I'd ever want to attempt it but I'd have a Glock Knife, or the M95 as above, because they won't snap, better still a Kukuri.
I did close recce for two years and even though we practiced for the experience the general opinion was a sentry would need to be drunk or so bored be asleep. A big tool to poleaxe would be more effective (there is another Gurkha story there).
I've done pig sticking as in wild boar and a knife is deadly, (any casualty department can tell you that, sadly), but boar don't have guns nor covered in hard kit like magazines. Maybe there is a lunatic who has done it in WWII????

I carried a fixed blade as stated, but it was because I was into bushcraft, survival and hunting. Others were into martial arts, or marathon running; some into video games. All sorts of interests in the military. But you pack it you haul it. A few Welsh mountains later and you take what you absolutely need, and a big knife isn't one.

If you want a really simple exercise to do to show the limitations of a modern soldier in close hand to hand combat then have one person fully loaded up in patrol kit (no guns or weapons, but ammunition and water, plus all that extra stuff) and another combatant with no kit and have them wrestle. Fully loaded then they are going to have a hard time of it; one reason not to let anyone too close.

 

[BladeScout]

That's why I said the Gerber Mark II is for specialized tasks!!!! Like sentry removal.....

In what parallel universe?

A suppressed handgun might be somewhat more practical.

 

[BladeScout]

For all their reputation the Gerber aren't even good at that. Not that I'd ever want to attempt it but I'd have a Glock Knife, or the M95 as above, because they won't snap, better still a Kukuri.
I did close recce for two years and even though we practiced for the experience the general opinion was a sentry would need to be drunk or so bored be asleep. A big tool to poleaxe would be more effective (there is another Gurkha story there).
I've done pig sticking as in wild boar and a knife is deadly, (any casualty department can tell you that, sadly), but boar don't have guns nor covered in hard kit like magazines. Maybe there is a lunatic who has done it in WWII????

I carried a fixed blade as stated, but it was because I was into bushcraft, survival and hunting. Others were into martial arts, or marathon running; some into video games. All sorts of interests in the military. But you pack it you haul it. A few Welsh mountains later and you take what you absolutely need, and a big knife isn't one.

IMO the MKII is not prone to 'snapping.' The nature of the snapping being unspecified. I have seen a few broken MKII hand guards but that does in no prevent the MKII from being used as a knife.
Considering that very little tang goes into the haft and that it is epoxyed, the knives hold up remarkably well even if a CM is broken off one side of the guard of a few knives.

Apart from that, I concur with your post.
Ive likewise killed hogs with a knife (in my case a custom Bowie - what did you use? Always interested i the knife angle!) and agree with you on that.
There is no comparison to trying to remove an armed and alert sentry. There is how ever a lot of blood.

And yes, when you have to carry your kit for long hauls, the shaving down of weight quickly becomes a priority.

 

[rustyrazor]

GREENJACKET: I agree whole heartedly with most of your points on why you would likely not "need" a fixed blade, and like I said, I may be biased as I've loved knives long before I was in the military and always have carried one of my own or a fallkniven or john Greco MST depending on what I thought I would need or want and I don't regret it... just in case. As I see it, things just happen... murphy's law if you will and I have had to use a knife to do things that a multitool or folder just cannot do. If we just keep our thinking to what's going on today, we are being short sighted which seems to be every military's Achilles heel that we are always training for what's going on in the last war and at best this one, all the while forgetting what was learned in the past. That being the case, even today's battlefields I have seen knives used for a number of things that you wouldn't think of as a knife task, but when you have one, it gets the job done and is better than bringing a multitude of other tools to fill the roles, such as breaching doorways that were locked... I had a lot of kit on me as is, so I hardly ever carried a tomahawk, but not every problem needs an explosive solution and the best method of breaching is progressive as I have come to understand so why blow a hole in the wall when you can pry a padlock off the door? Knives have been used along with tomahawks to dig holes in mud walls to make shooting holes or get around being funneled into possibly booby-trapped openings, and I've dug my knife in a wall and used it as a stand to see over a wall that was taller than me to get a better view of the activities. Most of what I wrote in my previous post was in reference to survival, should the need arise. Radio's die, firearms run out of ammo and plans fall apart so my theory has always been to be ready for every possible garbage outcome, and maybe I'm wrong... wouldn't be the first time, but if I am on my E&E plan, I want my fixed blade on my belt if nothing else. Just a thought.

 

[Etna]

I d like to get involved military or ex-military personnel from arround the world that served or still serving on active duty and ask them following questions :

1.) How many fixed blades do you usually carry on various assignments in the field and what exactly they are or (were)? brands /models

Just the standard-issue bayonet.

2.) Do /did you prefer to invest significant amount of money for desired premium knife of your own choice,even investing a lot of money or - rather relied on affordable option of average knife,or army issue only?

No, and why should I?

3.) What knife surprised you very much and never let you down and what knife failed and let you down when needed?

My $8 Chinese SanRenMus folders could put a $30 Kershaw to shame with regards to finish and quality.[/quote]

4.) What "all around" fixed blade would you recommend to other soldiers based on your own experience? (here you can also specify weather and climate conditions if any in particular)

None. Make do with what is given. My bayonet was used for just about anything I could think of.

5.) How do you maintain your edge /knife in field, if you do? (sharpening /oiling etc)

I don't.

 

[GREENJACKET]

Think the Guardian aluminium handle snapped; it was a long time ago. Didn't like the cats tongue handle finish either.

I did say I like a fixed bade. First boar was with the Chris Reeve Project II counting 4th from the left (now retired and refinished as per the picture):

I now have the Australian made Razerback pig sticking knife (my use is European wild boar that generally already have a hole in them but covered in dogs... for finishing):

Rustyrazor..its got to the stage where no one has anything.. some not even a pen knife. Now no one smokes, trying to find a light is hard enough. Recruits complain about creepy crawlys and the dark! Woe betide if they don't get hot showers!! It all takes more training time, and then the modern soldier is every bit as good as the last lot.

 

[jackknife]

I agree.



I disagree..

I've spent weeks in place high enough you can't get a cargo helicopter to we had to go down and get resupply of water, food, and ammunition then lug all the stuff back up. Afghanistan was proof that terrain can and does slow and at times stop a modern military.

The Sikorsky Blackhawk helicopter can lift a 2400 pound payload to 19,000 feet. Are you conducting combat operations in excess of that?

If so, you'll be lugging oxogen tanks like the climbers on Everest!

 

[GREENJACKET]

Can't get the quote to work.. Its Etna's answer.

This is the best answer yet. Soldiering isn't fancy.

 

[stabman]

With modern military operations, running out of ammo is the last thing you have to worry about. And if you do, and you now have an empty M16 and the other guys have loaded AK-47's, please tell me how a knife is going to help you? I'd love to know.

"NAJAF, Iraq — One of his friends was dead, 12 others lay wounded and the four soldiers still left standing were surrounded and out of ammunition. So Salvadoran Cpl. Samuel Toloza said a prayer, whipped out his knife and charged the Iraqi gunmen.

In one of the only known instances of hand-to-hand combat in the Iraq conflict, Cpl. Toloza stabbed several attackers swarming around a comrade. The stunned assailants backed away momentarily, just as a relief column came to the unit’s rescue."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/may/3/20040503-115511-7092r/

It wasn't a fixed blade...but I'll bet he was glad he didn't just have one of those folding can openers people like posting photos of.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/toloza.html

 

[GermanyChris]

The Sikorsky Blackhawk helicopter can lift a 2400 pound payload to 19,000 feet. Are you conducting combat operations in excess of that?

If so, you'll be lugging oxogen tanks like the climbers on Everest!

That's true if they were just flying up..

 

[Cryptyc]

I d like to get involved military or ex-military personnel from arround the world that served or still serving on active duty and ask them following questions :

1.) How many fixed blades do you usually carry on various assignments in the field and what exactly they are or (were)? brands /models
I like having my Tops MSK in my pocket. I also ALWAYS have my leatherman wave on me.
2.) Do /did you prefer to invest significant amount of money for desired premium knife of your own choice,even investing a lot of money or - rather relied on affordable option of average knife,or army issue only?
I don't care about spending money or not spending money. If I want a specific knife, I'll get it.
3.) What knife surprised you very much and never let you down and what knife failed and let you down when needed?
None
4.) What "all around" fixed blade would you recommend to other soldiers based on your own experience? (here you can also specify weather and climate conditions if any in particular)
A Becker or Tops would be my preference. For fighting (if you're super high speed or have a MOS that would make you think you'd need one) then a sakimori or something of the sort.
5.) How do you maintain your edge /knife in field, if you do? (sharpening /oiling etc)
I carry a very small piece of strop with green compound in a ziplock bag. I just use CLP we have around for cleaning our rifles to keep the rust away.
Thanks for all replies.(doesn't need to go necessary from point 1 to point 5) please post photos of your military knife companions - if possible!

See my answers in blue.

 

[stabman]

The answer for soldiers will actually be the exact same as for everyone other human: something you'll actually carry.

Just like with every other group of humans, that will vary by the individual.

 

[rustyrazor]

The answer for soldiers will actually be the exact same as for everyone other human: something you'll actually carry.

Just like with every other group of humans, that will vary by the individual.

probably the best anyone has ever put it... soldiers are absolutely no different than anyone else. One thing I have found, and I've said this on more than one thread on here is that most soldiers don't know a thing about knives. They get sucked in by the hype just like (and I'd say moreso than) everybody else and a lot of time start out carrying the meanest looking piece of steel they can until they start whittling down what works and doesn't over the years and find something sensible.

 

[ViperPilot]

In what parallel universe?

A suppressed handgun might be somewhat more practical.

When I was in we trained for this and there was even a Field Manual on the subject....
Dont know about today. And how many line units have suppressed handguns lying around?

 

[threefeathers]

I retired as a 19D but spent half my career as an 11B. This Rambo knife stuff is bull#### You carry what you have and if you are issued a Mk9 Bayonet that will become your fixed blade knife. Yes I carried a Gerber MKII at various times between 66-67 the again in 72-75 and I usually either dropped it in the jungle or left it back in my dufflebag. When I took a Platoon into Panama I carried one of the Gerber Big knives for a few minutes until I had to hump a PRC 77 in the top pocket of my ruck because my normal radio man was humping about 5 belts of M80 linked. As a 19D I took a blade because I could hang it in the track and just use when needed like when C's then MRE's came in.
When my son went into the 82nd I bought him a K Bar and he did carry it often. He, however got much more use from a Gerber multi-tool. I suggest that if you are in a unit that is issued bayonets that you learn to use it both as a knife and bayonet. If you are not in a unit that will have you making trails in the boonies carrying 200 lbs of stuff the get a k Bar or knife of that type, better yet a folder.. Be careful on spending too much, they get lost, dropped out of a helo, bonced out of a track, or traded to some non-combatatent for some hooch.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I often wonder how many knives are traded for hooch... even beer. A lot I think.
How many big knives go on many tours but spend most of the time under the bunk bed at base?

One use of a fixed blade was getting mud off ones boots. It didn't need to be sharp.
The old ration tins needed stabbing.
And those roots when digging trenches needed cutting when beating them to death just wasn't working. Anyone dig a trench recently? Maybe next war.

Plenty of uses for a knife but a folder can usually do it.

The public are far better informed now, even when it comes to knives. Equally the marketing and hype is strong. Having some kind of SF connection is a real boon to sales and every manufacturer wants it. Once this was rife, but recently its not so easy and even sponsorship doesn't get far. Lots of units have a "going on tour" fund for special items, and sometimes they buy a bunch of multitools... or not. Private purchases are more to do with individuals and how flush they are that week. They buy to make their life easier.

On moderated pistols, those that need then have them available. The vast majority of the military don't need to sneak about, and in truth being "loud" with outright firepower is preferable. I always liked a suppressed .22LR; think they were LEI Ruger MKII conversions shooting subs; well a few of us had privately purchased them... for fun (forgot how gung ho we were!). (We don't have private handguns in the UK now). Close recce was all about getting info so later its could be obliterated; you didn't want them to know you had been.

If I had a tank, or helicopter to carry it then I might take this:

Or my new favourite:

I miss the days when we had mules to carry the heavy stuff. Now where is my gun bearer?

 

[Seriousbladeno1]

Many thanks for all opinions and experiences shared in here so far, also for great photography additions of few guys! Interesting to read different point between various military or ex military guys.My initial intentions were not exactly to compare pro's and con's of folders vs fixed in the battlefields or on everyday soldier's duties, however two major groups emerged here, one that see fixed blade on duty as necessary while other group not and rather opt for folders/multitool...i don't mind the way thread evolved, as all additions are at some point related and discussion goes well and informative so far.

I personally believe that military personnel shall be definitely equipped with fixed blades, regardless of climate.It doesn't matter whether soldier find himself in desert warfare or deep jungle, neither matters if technology have great impact by increasing distances between oppositions on battlefield, one is very likely to find himself in urgent need of tough, capable blade for many unforseen reasons and such a tool can become quickly only lifeline and saviour of human life in critical moments,or just simply utility tool for task,where folder wouldn't do the job as effectively or at all...However, I think that for most of the ordinary days of soldier, good folder or multitool, will cover pretty much nearly every task without need of fixed, tougher blade.

When it comes to deployments in some specific climate conditions such as mountains with thick vegetation and woods, or tropical jungles - where soldiers are practically living and serving daily in close proximity of many dangerous wild animals night and day plus having to work their way through thick vegetation or build shelters occasionally, or mask the artillery, vehicles etc,setting trapps for enemy / animals when running out of food, good reliable and sharpened blade, (not only machetes) is a must IMO... In these conditions, multitools or folders obviously wouldn't much help as "only edged" tools.

Again, - I wasn't deployed into any warfare, serving only mandatory military service in middle of Europe,so i can not fantacise about topic much, but i can imagine, I d definitely had more than one knife on me,if I would be the only guy from entire battalion, to carry fixed blade, i d be the one!!!,,,, and I would invest into my optional knife best as i could,(not overly) but definitely wouldn't be saving on it. Knife would have to be able to hold much more than my bodyweight in lateral strength, easy to sharp, be an all rounder, not too large but neither too small,able to chopp, hack, slash,stab,batton,with some level of rust resistancy,simply reliable and well functional in most tasks expected from good combat knife.Also would carry back up fixed blade, plus folder for day to day use.

Mankind evolved tens of thousands years along knife - this tool was and still is of great importance for every human being and I think soldier have twice as many reasons to carry it on his route to unknown.