Question for the collectors and knife buyers.

When considering such a purchase, use of new stock, or the use of recycled items:

  • Is a significant factor.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Is not a significant factor.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
Lorien said:
Kevin, what exactly are you seeking to accomplish with this thread?
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To learn by listening to another group of equal importance to the whole field of knifemaking. The topic is now so emotional among knifemakers, that we are unable to maintain a rational dialog about it, but I am a rational cold analysis kind of guy and often switch to data gathering mode when I am unable to understand peoples more emotional approaches.

I would also love to do a poll on the number of stock removers who recycle old items into blades or use new stock, followed by the same poll for those who forge. I think the information gained from such studies would be fascinating.

Believe me I am not looking to only validate my beliefs, I get much more of a kick out of being surprised by results, it is much more interesting and makes us think in other directions.
 
This reply may not fall within the parameters of the original question, but I feel like if a knife is going to cost $1000 plus, then the purchaser will obviously want satisfaction that the steel utilized in the construction is of a known composition. I would not want to buy a Corvette for top dollar to later learn that it had a "rebuilt" motor. May be perfectly fine, but leaves doubt. Here's the part where I deviate. What about that guy who wants to buy a damn good knife for his deer hunting. Will a hunting blade made from a rasp or a leaf spring be sufficient for that? Let's say he wants to pay $400 for it. I don't see why something made of "scrap" steel (don't like that term) should be considered insufficient for that use. I believe it is known that if a rasp/file and/or leaf spring is heat treated and/or tempered properly, that the blade will hold an edge and perform properly to that task. I'm just a beginner, so my views may be skewed to the materials most associated with my work. Upper end type knives = known materials from known makers. "Scrap" blade knives = known treatments with quality construction for utilitarian uses.
 
Knifemakers are out of this discussion! For crying out loud, guys, stop giving your opinions on this thread!!!!!
 
2knife said:
Kevin,
This goes to "why" a collector buys a knife. Collectors rarely use the knives they buy (or put them to the test) , as a point of fact.

So, is steel choice really important? Absolutely! Everyone will say this. But is it the truth? No. It wouldnt matter, any day of the week. Knife collecting has become a fashion show, and status, and reputation. Sure, the big names earn their reputation w. quality i suppose.
But, would anyone ever know the difference w. scrap steel, truly? Only the Maker. There is a "trust factor".

It's like eating a fast food hamburger. Who knows what's really in it?!
The cow ain't talkin'. ;)
David
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Perhaps a fashion show to you David, ;) however whether I use a knife or not, make-up, quality and performance is of utmost importance to me. Not unlike my classic 1966 Corvette. When I know by checking ID#s, part#s and casting#s that it has the original engine and components thus my knowing just how it will perform without my having to take it to Richmond International Speedway to test it.

A mid year (63-67) Corvette's value can vary $20K-$50K depending whether it has it's original components and whether it can be documented.

A high end collectibles value to it's owner and the collectible market is VERY OFTEN dependent on it's make-up and documentation. For a custom knife that documentation is in the form of the maker's good name.
And I'm OK with there being a "trust factor".
 
2knife said:
Kevin,
This goes to "why" a collector buys a knife. Collectors rarely use the knives they buy (or put them to the test) , as a point of fact.

So, is steel choice really important? Absolutely! Everyone will say this. But is it the truth? No. It wouldnt matter, any day of the week. Knife collecting has become a fashion show, and status, and reputation. Sure, the big names earn their reputation w. quality i suppose.
But, would anyone ever know the difference w. scrap steel, truly? Only the Maker. There is a "trust factor".

It's like eating a fast food hamburger. Who knows what's really in it?!
The cow ain't talkin'. ;)
David
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Speak for yourself, please. Knife collecting is not a "fashion show" to me.

Roger
 
there's nothing wrong with fashion when it comes to collecting and I would submit that from what I've seen, fashion is a necessary consideration for most of the kind of collecting that most people do. There are very few knives which achieve Art, which sublimely over reaches fashion, and there are very few people, I think, who can look past fashion and pick up what the Art is putting down. And fewer still who can afford it.

Sorry for going off on a tangent:o.

Kevin- you really are a very scientific person and the community is much richer with the knowledge you disseminate. I'd be really interested in seeing the results of the other polls you proposed.
 
Hi, I made a mistake when I voted. I didn't read the explanation before I voted so I thought you were referring to "green" materials which I am not particularly concerned with. If I had read your explanation before I snap voted I would have voted "yes". I want the knives I buy to be made from new, not recycled files etc. Maybe some of the other voters made this same mistake.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Knifemakers are out of this discussion! For crying out loud, guys, stop giving your opinions on this thread!!!!!
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My suspicion is that the vast majority of the opinion givers in this thread have made a knife or two. Even though I prefaced my statement with the possibility of a deviation from the original question, if I caused consternation with my interloping, then I apologize.
 
2knife said:
Roger,
I hear you. But you must admit, "Best Bowies of 2009" , when it happens, (and you post it up), a "knife fashion show".

Part of the fun, surely for everyone. i'm not knocking it. i enjoy these too.
David
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To avoid further thread drift, I'll decline to offer a substantive reply.

Roger
 
This is going to sound snide, but it's not intended to be.

Do any of the folks here demand that makers have their forged blades MPI'ed to ensure absolute top-notch performance? It would seem to me that the very manual and thus imperfect art of forging (and damascus manufacture) has the potential to introduce flaws in the steel not visible to the naked eye. Flaws that may not reveal themselves during heat treatment or finishing.

Magnetic particle inspection would be one method to "guarantee" flawlessness (to some degree). Likewise stock reduction from new barstock.

I can't help but see some irony in demanding ultimate performance from a blade that was made by smacking it with a hammer.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
:thumbup:Wow, Rick this is the kind of honesty that I was so certain I wouldn't get from makers....snipped
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Thanks Kevin.... I was meerly echoing your "World Trade Center Steel" statement. Sometimes there is more to it than toughness and wear properties. I did edit my post as some of it was "involved" as you say.:grumpy:

Like I said.... I'm not to far removed from collecting.... hopefully the power of the darkside doesn't consume me totally.... lol.:thumbup:



Rick
 
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I collect knives, but the knife must be a tool. I collect hunters of a certain style, and there are certain steels with their associated specific heat treat known to make a good hunter. I won't buy a hunter with an unknown steel and "guessed at" heat treat. This is to protect my investment, and to fit my collection of "knives that are tools." A recycled steel of known composition, properly heat treated, might be added to my collection but my first choice would be virgin steel. A knife made of an unknown steel or with less than the optimum mill-specified heat treat might be art or junk, but it is not a tool.
 
2knife has a valid point.

If a knife is NEVER to be used, does it *really* matter whether the steel is 0-1 or 52100 (or....)?

And if so, does it matter less or more than if that beautiful mosaic damascus bowie can actually hold an edge under use? :rolleyes:

Sure, we all want to know what we're buying. . .but if one is actually that concerned with the particulars of the knife, shouldn't the actual raison d'etre of the knife be valid?

Apparently not, as I would propose the steels in many of the knives in our collections are mystery steels....when viewed through the lens of "do they cut; will they hold an edge?"

Myself, with a knife that will never cut; I would rather have a good look or cool story rather than absolute provenance of steel type! :D

Just me, YMMV

-Michael
 
I think that knowing what steel is in a knife is very important. I have purchased many knives with different steels just to try out the steel and it's edge retention. I know what the steel is in all of my knives. I trust the makers word on what steel he used in a particular knife.

I think that is just as important on a knife that I don't plan on using. I want to know that it is capable even if I don't use it.

If a knife has very pretty damascus, but is not capable of holding an edge, it is not, in my opinion a knife, but just a pretty knifelike object.

Jim Treacy
 
i wonder how long a knife made from an old saw blade or file would last if it came up on mr hanson's site?.....hmmmmm......ryan
 
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