Random Thought Thread

murat1983 said:
I want DEK3, but the UK knife laws strictly say no double edge knife imports. I can not see myself winning an argument about the swedge is not being an actual edge with custom officers.

Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist please give an option for those who are worried about knife laws. I would don't mind having a DEK3 with a rectangular spine and not need to worry about if it will get cleared through the customs for the next 18 months :)
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Does UK knife law strictly say "no double edge knife imports"?

The official guidance is below, and logically, it shouldn't apply to the DEK3 as the DEK3 does have "a legitimate use" beyond killing or inflicting serious injury.

Although I do concede that the way these laws are applied in practice has become less and less logical over time. Years ago, I had a machete taken off me at Gatwick on return from 4 months in the Amazon and other parts of rural Colombia, where I used it on a daily basis. Today, I would probably get into a lot more trouble than simply losing a $6 blade, although according to the law, it's still just as legal to carry a machete if you have a legitimate reason for doing so.

I think there's a separate forum for these issues, so probably shouldn't go further into the legalities here.

Importing knives, swords and other offensive weapons into the UK​

Offensive weapons which are designed to kill or inflict serious injury and do not have a legitimate use are banned or restricted from being imported into the UK.

It is an offence to import certain specified weapons including knives, swords and other blades.

Banned knives and weapons​

It is illegal to bring into the UK, sell, hire, lend, give or possess in private the following, unless a legal exemption applies:

  • butterfly knives (also known as ‘balisongs’): these have a blade hidden inside a handle that splits in the middle to reveal the blade
  • disguised knives: where a blade or sharp point is hidden inside what looks like everyday objects such as a buckle, phone, brush or lipstick
  • flick knives or gravity knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’): folding knives where the blade automatically opens or opens by gravity when a button or something else on the knife is pressed
  • stealth knives, which are knives or spikes not made from metal which are not made for use at home, for food or as a toy
  • zombie knives: a knife with a cutting edge, a serrated edge and images or words suggesting it is used for violence
  • swords, with a curved blade over 50 centimetres (with some exceptions, such as antiques and swords made to traditional or methods before 1954)
  • sword-sticks: a hollow walking stick or cane containing a blade
  • push daggers: a knife where the handle fits within a clenched fist and the blade protrudes from between two fingers
  • blowpipes (sometimes known as ‘blow guns’): a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath
  • telescopic truncheons: these extend automatically by pressing button or spring in or attached to the handle
  • batons: straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheons
  • hollow kubotans: a cylinder-shaped container containing a number of sharp spikes
  • shurikens (also known as ‘shaken’, ‘death stars’ or ‘throwing stars’)
  • kusari-gama: a sickle attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kyoketsu-shoge: a hook-knife attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kusari (or ‘manrikigusari’): a weight or hand grip attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • hand or foot-claws: a band of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude
  • knuckledusters: a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers
  • cyclone or spiral knives: a blade with one or more cutting edges that form a helix and come to a point
  • belt buckle knife: a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife
 
Brummie said:
Does UK knife law strictly say "no double edge knife imports"?

The official guidance is below, and logically, it shouldn't apply to the DEK3 as the DEK3 does have "a legitimate use" beyond killing or inflicting serious injury.

Although I do concede that the way these laws are applied in practice has become less and less logical over time. Years ago, I had a machete taken off me at Gatwick on return from 4 months in the Amazon and other parts of rural Colombia, where I used it on a daily basis. Today, I would probably get into a lot more trouble than simply losing a $6 blade, although according to the law, it's still just as legal to carry a machete if you have a legitimate reason for doing so.

I think there's a separate forum for these issues, so probably shouldn't go further into the legalities here.

Importing knives, swords and other offensive weapons into the UK​

Offensive weapons which are designed to kill or inflict serious injury and do not have a legitimate use are banned or restricted from being imported into the UK.

It is an offence to import certain specified weapons including knives, swords and other blades.

Banned knives and weapons​

It is illegal to bring into the UK, sell, hire, lend, give or possess in private the following, unless a legal exemption applies:

  • butterfly knives (also known as ‘balisongs’): these have a blade hidden inside a handle that splits in the middle to reveal the blade
  • disguised knives: where a blade or sharp point is hidden inside what looks like everyday objects such as a buckle, phone, brush or lipstick
  • flick knives or gravity knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’): folding knives where the blade automatically opens or opens by gravity when a button or something else on the knife is pressed
  • stealth knives, which are knives or spikes not made from metal which are not made for use at home, for food or as a toy
  • zombie knives: a knife with a cutting edge, a serrated edge and images or words suggesting it is used for violence
  • swords, with a curved blade over 50 centimetres (with some exceptions, such as antiques and swords made to traditional or methods before 1954)
  • sword-sticks: a hollow walking stick or cane containing a blade
  • push daggers: a knife where the handle fits within a clenched fist and the blade protrudes from between two fingers
  • blowpipes (sometimes known as ‘blow guns’): a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath
  • telescopic truncheons: these extend automatically by pressing button or spring in or attached to the handle
  • batons: straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheons
  • hollow kubotans: a cylinder-shaped container containing a number of sharp spikes
  • shurikens (also known as ‘shaken’, ‘death stars’ or ‘throwing stars’)
  • kusari-gama: a sickle attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kyoketsu-shoge: a hook-knife attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kusari (or ‘manrikigusari’): a weight or hand grip attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • hand or foot-claws: a band of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude
  • knuckledusters: a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers
  • cyclone or spiral knives: a blade with one or more cutting edges that form a helix and come to a point
  • belt buckle knife: a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife
Click to expand...
I thought it was simultaneously sad and hilariously dumb when they added 'Zombie Knives' as a specific category. "Crikey, it has a GREEN handle!!!"
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
That's a reasonable request, I wish I could accommodate you but this is already the most complex pre-order we've attempted, I need to maintain simplicity where I can. The best I can do is to not sharpen it. I'm very sorry about your knife laws. It's mindboggling that people have states treating grown men like children. Not allowed to have a piece of metal that's sharpened on both sides. Good grief.
Click to expand...
Yeah. MI is one of the nanny states with a prohibition on plebs possessing double edged blades in public (thought it was funny and sad that all the unknowing folk walking around Renaissance fairs in costume with sharp double edged swords could legally be charged).

Then again, MI also has weird laws about plebs carrying fixed blade knives for anything other than hunting. 🙄
 
bluemax_1 said:
I thought it was simultaneously sad and hilariously dumb when they added 'Zombie Knives' as a specific category. "Crikey, it has a GREEN handle!!!"
Click to expand...
Yes. But honestly no more dumb than singling out butterfly knives or a number of other categories. It’s reputation, rather than actual lethality that gets a knife on the naughty list. Inclusion of blow pipes is weird - unless you have a poison arrow frog in your pocket, a blow pipe is not a particularly lethal weapon.

Although I don't agree with them, at least there is some logical consistency to UK laws in that they generally try to prevent possession of any weapon that doesn't have a non-violent purpose. In some jurisdictions in the US, it's a crime to carry a knuckle ring, but fine to carry a semi-automatic rifle.
 
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Brummie said:
Does UK knife law strictly say "no double edge knife imports"?

The official guidance is below, and logically, it shouldn't apply to the DEK3 as the DEK3 does have "a legitimate use" beyond killing or inflicting serious injury.

Although I do concede that the way these laws are applied in practice has become less and less logical over time. Years ago, I had a machete taken off me at Gatwick on return from 4 months in the Amazon and other parts of rural Colombia, where I used it on a daily basis. Today, I would probably get into a lot more trouble than simply losing a $6 blade, although according to the law, it's still just as legal to carry a machete if you have a legitimate reason for doing so.

I think there's a separate forum for these issues, so probably shouldn't go further into the legalities here.

Importing knives, swords and other offensive weapons into the UK​

Offensive weapons which are designed to kill or inflict serious injury and do not have a legitimate use are banned or restricted from being imported into the UK.

It is an offence to import certain specified weapons including knives, swords and other blades.

Banned knives and weapons​

It is illegal to bring into the UK, sell, hire, lend, give or possess in private the following, unless a legal exemption applies:

  • butterfly knives (also known as ‘balisongs’): these have a blade hidden inside a handle that splits in the middle to reveal the blade
  • disguised knives: where a blade or sharp point is hidden inside what looks like everyday objects such as a buckle, phone, brush or lipstick
  • flick knives or gravity knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’): folding knives where the blade automatically opens or opens by gravity when a button or something else on the knife is pressed
  • stealth knives, which are knives or spikes not made from metal which are not made for use at home, for food or as a toy
  • zombie knives: a knife with a cutting edge, a serrated edge and images or words suggesting it is used for violence
  • swords, with a curved blade over 50 centimetres (with some exceptions, such as antiques and swords made to traditional or methods before 1954)
  • sword-sticks: a hollow walking stick or cane containing a blade
  • push daggers: a knife where the handle fits within a clenched fist and the blade protrudes from between two fingers
  • blowpipes (sometimes known as ‘blow guns’): a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath
  • telescopic truncheons: these extend automatically by pressing button or spring in or attached to the handle
  • batons: straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheons
  • hollow kubotans: a cylinder-shaped container containing a number of sharp spikes
  • shurikens (also known as ‘shaken’, ‘death stars’ or ‘throwing stars’)
  • kusari-gama: a sickle attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kyoketsu-shoge: a hook-knife attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kusari (or ‘manrikigusari’): a weight or hand grip attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • hand or foot-claws: a band of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude
  • knuckledusters: a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers
  • cyclone or spiral knives: a blade with one or more cutting edges that form a helix and come to a point
  • belt buckle knife: a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife
Click to expand...


You might be right. I will look into it. I remember double-edged knives not being OK, but perhaps I confused it with serrated edges. Thanks!
 
Brummie said:
Does UK knife law strictly say "no double edge knife imports"?

The official guidance is below, and logically, it shouldn't apply to the DEK3 as the DEK3 does have "a legitimate use" beyond killing or inflicting serious injury.

Although I do concede that the way these laws are applied in practice has become less and less logical over time. Years ago, I had a machete taken off me at Gatwick on return from 4 months in the Amazon and other parts of rural Colombia, where I used it on a daily basis. Today, I would probably get into a lot more trouble than simply losing a $6 blade, although according to the law, it's still just as legal to carry a machete if you have a legitimate reason for doing so.

I think there's a separate forum for these issues, so probably shouldn't go further into the legalities here.

Importing knives, swords and other offensive weapons into the UK​

Offensive weapons which are designed to kill or inflict serious injury and do not have a legitimate use are banned or restricted from being imported into the UK.

It is an offence to import certain specified weapons including knives, swords and other blades.

Banned knives and weapons​

It is illegal to bring into the UK, sell, hire, lend, give or possess in private the following, unless a legal exemption applies:

  • butterfly knives (also known as ‘balisongs’): these have a blade hidden inside a handle that splits in the middle to reveal the blade
  • disguised knives: where a blade or sharp point is hidden inside what looks like everyday objects such as a buckle, phone, brush or lipstick
  • flick knives or gravity knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’): folding knives where the blade automatically opens or opens by gravity when a button or something else on the knife is pressed
  • stealth knives, which are knives or spikes not made from metal which are not made for use at home, for food or as a toy
  • zombie knives: a knife with a cutting edge, a serrated edge and images or words suggesting it is used for violence
  • swords, with a curved blade over 50 centimetres (with some exceptions, such as antiques and swords made to traditional or methods before 1954)
  • sword-sticks: a hollow walking stick or cane containing a blade
  • push daggers: a knife where the handle fits within a clenched fist and the blade protrudes from between two fingers
  • blowpipes (sometimes known as ‘blow guns’): a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath
  • telescopic truncheons: these extend automatically by pressing button or spring in or attached to the handle
  • batons: straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheons
  • hollow kubotans: a cylinder-shaped container containing a number of sharp spikes
  • shurikens (also known as ‘shaken’, ‘death stars’ or ‘throwing stars’)
  • kusari-gama: a sickle attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kyoketsu-shoge: a hook-knife attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • kusari (or ‘manrikigusari’): a weight or hand grip attached to a rope, cord, chain or wire
  • hand or foot-claws: a band of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude
  • knuckledusters: a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers
  • cyclone or spiral knives: a blade with one or more cutting edges that form a helix and come to a point
  • belt buckle knife: a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife
Click to expand...
Thanks for the list, I knew I was forgetting something!
 
fonedork said:
Oi m8, u got a loicense for that knoife?
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Walking around with tools for no apparent purpose has always been something that will get police attention in the UK, but that was because "going equipped" for burglary is an offence, not because they were considered weapons. To actually be convicted, they would need to prove that those tools were intended to be used for a crime. But in practical terms, it gives police the ability to take tools off you if they think you look dodgy, because who's going to go through the bother of being arrested or going to court just over a screwdriver.
Basically, it's not illegal to possess tools in the UK (of course), but if you're a 14-yr-old going around a council estate (equivalent to projects) with a spark plug in your hand for no obvious reason, the police will probably take it off you because they'll assume you're up to no good (like breaking into cars).
 
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Richard338 said:
Thanks for the list, I knew I was forgetting something!
Click to expand...
BTW, it's not very clear, but my understanding is that all "offensive weapons" (i.e. things that don't have a legitimate non-violent purpose) are restricted, and the ones of the list are outright banned for import. Restricted basically means you can only import it if you have special permission because you work in museums or films or something similar.
 
Brummie said:
BTW, it's not very clear, but my understanding is that all "offensive weapons" (i.e. things that don't have a legitimate non-violent purpose) are restricted, and the ones of the list are outright banned for import. Restricted basically means you can only import it if you have special permission because you work in museums or films or something similar.
Click to expand...
I was only half joking as I keep forgetting to make a sword cane...
 
Brummie said:
BTW, it's not very clear, but my understanding is that all "offensive weapons" (i.e. things that don't have a legitimate non-violent purpose) are restricted, and the ones of the list are outright banned for import. Restricted basically means you can only import it if you have special permission because you work in museums or films or something similar.
Click to expand...
I think there might've also been some exemptions for certain 'weapons' if you could prove they were solely/specifically for martial arts training/practice, but I could be wrong.
 
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