Random Thought Thread

SharpBits said:
The all brass handle was not part of the original design. It was done by some manufacturers to lower costs by using a cast handle.
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Pretty sure they started out with knurled brass but had to change to something else. Some kind of pot metal or maybe aluminum because the brass was in short supply and the designers lamented the loss of that heavy ass metal. Idunno.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The physical samples that I have handled that were original genuine issue did not have a thin tip. They were reinforced. Could have been better, but I have seen way worse.

But the 1/8" tang and round narrow handle are no bueno. The handle should never be round.

The center of gravity specified in the design print, and confirmed in my model, is incorrect. Too far back. Also, all the weight in the middle of the blade and none on the ends is not good for a stabbing weapon. Many of these had a round cast brass handle. Brass is 10 times heavier than wood. It's putting a lot of weight in exactly the wrong place.

Here is a knife whose edge cannot be indexed by the handle, you have no idea where the edge is at by feel, and it's heavy but also unstable. Given the physical design envelope of a dagger, there's only so much that a designer can do, but they didn't even attempt to do any of the things.

Also, it's heavy, yet weak.

It's a cool dagger. Perhaps in part due to the history and the time and place where it was being used. But it is suboptimal.
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All valid points!🤩
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🤣🤣🤣
 
SharpBits said:
The all brass handle was not part of the original design. It was done by some manufacturers to lower costs by using a cast handle.
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The US Marines adopted a version of the FS design with a handle made of zinc cast around the tang. I think the production was limited and ultimately stopped as the zinc corroded shockingly fast.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Pretty sure they started out with knurled brass but had to change to something else. Some kind of pot metal or maybe aluminum because the brass was in short supply and the designers lamented the loss of that heavy ass metal. Idunno.
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Yes, correct. I misread it and it was the ringed alloy handles that were the cheaper and worse alternative.
In any event, the original balance, that was selected based on real world experience on the streets of Shanghai, was changed for the worse.

Edited: so many typos
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
Pretty sure they started out with knurled brass but had to change to something else. Some kind of pot metal or maybe aluminum because the brass was in short supply and the designers lamented the loss of that heavy ass metal. Idunno.
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for today's throat stabbing tool, I suggest titanium with a carbide pommel
 
SharpBits said:
Yes, correct. I misread it and it was the ringed alloy handles that were the cheaper and worse alternative.
In any event, the original balance, that was selected based on real world experience on the streets of Shanghai, was changed for the worse.

Edited: so many typos
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But that's my point. The change would have improved the knife. "Selected based on real world experience on the streets of Shanghai" is their claim, however they are out of their mind. I'm calling them out, I'm claiming they're wrong. They're allowed to have an opinion, and they're allowed to be wrong.

Perhaps a big heavy handle worked well in their particular application where perhaps they were using it in their fist to add weight to a punch. With a blade added to the end (perched off an 1/8" rod for a tang). Perhaps their particular fighting style benefited from having this heavy chunk of brass in their hand.

I'll bet they held their pistol in a teacup grip too.

They're wrong. Plain and simple.
 
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Sometimes you will see people who use knives or tools like Rachael Ray or Bear Grylls design a knife or cutting instrument because they think they know how to design something because they use it a lot. And they come up with some real turds.

Mario Andretti could drive a car real good, but I'll bet that if he were to actually design and build one, himself, that it would suck
 
Horace Kephart did a pretty good job with his knife design and it is still used and appreciated a lot to this day. But if that blade profile and handle design were truly optimal, it would be more widely adopted today.

And if he wasn't a well-known and published writer with a following of folks who recognized and appreciated his expertise as a woodsman, I doubt that particular knife would exist today.

The best designs evolve through use and construction by many users and makers over time. The best features get adopted and the bad ideas disappear after time and iterations.

There is no serious knife maker or knife user today who would seriously promote the benefits of a heavy ass solid brass handle. I'm sure Fairbairn and Sykes thought it was great. And maybe it worked really well for all the people they were stabbing in Shanghai, but it's suboptimal.
 
You don't want a stabbing weapon to be "fast in the hand". You want it to be fast on the arm.

You want to be able to move it around quickly. A light weapon works well and a heavy weapon is a turd.

But you don't want it to change orientation quickly. You don't want it to deflect or be unstable.

You're going to want that dagger to be as light as possible, with as much weight on the ends as possible. So there are some conflicting design constraints that require optimization. You can have a weighted pommel, for example, but you can't put a pommel at the tip. However, you can have a reinforced point which benefits the dagger and improves tip weight. At the same time, you want the middle and base of the blade to be strong but light. Which is why historical weapons had complex sections to increase the sectional modulus with things like a deep center rib and fullers.

But a solid brass handle is completely wrong.

Knives that are heavy in the center and light on the end are easy to pick up and wave around and they feel lively. Feeling lively and actually working well as a weapon are not the same thing.
 
SharpBits said:
Laugh all you want, but Fairbairn lived the life and did the deeds. He died an old man in a field where most die young.
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Oh, I'm not laughing. Rachael Ray is a good cook and Bear grills is a real badass. I'm not disparaging Fairbairn, I'm pointing out that his dagger has some issues.
 
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