Random Thought Thread

[Nathan the Machinist]

I knew we'd get back to the nude jousting.

It also looks to me like his handle may have been inspired by the grip of a fencing foil. It would be foolhardy to attempt to use a 7-inch dagger like a foil. Wrong grip angle.

 

[Blues]

Random thought…who’s the test dummy to prove Nathan’s right?

There's a volunteer in the Netherlands...

 

[JearBeatus48]

That's a bit dark of an implication...

 

[bluemax_1]

There's a volunteer in the Netherlands...

…who would have a tough time getting his hands on a CPK…

 

[Blues]

…who would have a tough time getting his hands on a CPK…

...otherwise.

 

[surfkiev]

It also looks to me like his handle may have been inspired by the grip of a fencing foil. It would be foolhardy to attempt to use a 7-inch dagger like a foil. Wrong grip angle.

Envisioning your upcoming semi-integral dagger, I assume you'll attach a piece of metal on each side of the handle at the end for the pommel to gain the weight you're talking about. Is that the semi part?

 

[Casinostocks]

There's a volunteer in the Netherlands...

Oh, the penny just dropped! Thank you.

ETA, in all these past 9+ years, I have hardly come across someone getting such a harsh verbal public lashing like that from Nathan. The lesson in all this being, although Nathan is as cool as they come, apart from his super sensitive baby soft skin condition:

#dontfudgearoundwithjo

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Envisioning your upcoming semi-integral dagger, I assume you'll attach a piece of metal on each side of the handle at the end for the pommel to gain the weight you're talking about. Is that the semi part?

I'll make a weighted pommel that screws onto the end, I think. So the end of the tang will be a something like a 1/4-28 thread.

However I don't know that it really needs a whole lot of weight, it's only a 7-inch blade. I might make the aesthetic choice and use titanium instead of stainless steel, depending on what the weight needs to be.

 

[Pàdruig]

Nathan the Machinist - I'm a bit preoccupied with work and am kind of just skimming here so you may have already covered this in some details that I missed. It is my understanding that the FS knife was never intended to be a fighting knife, just a killing knife. There's a distinction there and I imagine that factors into your design?

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Nathan the Machinist - I'm a bit preoccupied with work and am kind of just skimming here so you may have already covered this in some details that I missed. It is my understanding that the FS knife was never intended to be a fighting knife, just a killing knife. There's a distinction there and I imagine that factors into your design?

Yeah I suppose you're right about that. You would not usually use a double-edged dagger of this type as a fighter, this really is just for stabbing somebody. It would not work well in a grapple.

A fighter, the handle will be designed so the thumb can go over the end and the blade held in a reverse grip. This one, not so much.

 

[bluemax_1]

.

Nathan the Machinist - I'm a bit preoccupied with work and am kind of just skimming here so you may have already covered this in some details that I missed. It is my understanding that the FS knife was never intended to be a fighting knife, just a killing knife. There's a distinction there and I imagine that factors into your design?

If you think about it, wouldn’t that run counter to ‘liveliness’?

The whole ‘liveliness’ bit is emphasized by people talking about quick changes of direction for snap cuts and flicks in knife fighting. Liveliness isn’t really a factor for stabbing because the mass and inertia isn’t what’s discussed, but the weight distribution and balance, when it comes to ‘liveliness’.

 

[SharpBits]

For those playing at home, here is an video of an old film for the OSS, dubbed in a foreign language. The knife and the gentleman are of interest here.

 

[bluemax_1]

For those playing at home, here is a video of an old film for the OSS, dubbed in a foreign language. The knife and the gentleman are of interest here.

Thanks for posting that. Never seen it before, but all it does is raise more questions.

That loose grip that he shows when they first close in showing his ‘knife handling’, anyone who’s ever done test cutting with a knife/blade, knows that ANY appreciable contact, and your knife is gone, which makes me skeptical of EVERYTHING henceforth.

 

[SharpBits]

Thanks for posting that. Never seen it before, but all it does is raise more questions.

That loose grip that he shows when they first close in showing his ‘knife handling’, anyone who’s ever done test cutting with a knife/blade, knows that ANY appreciable contact, and your knife is gone, which makes me skeptical of EVERYTHING henceforth.

I'm sure the actual training was far more realistic vs this "primer" movie. One interest point for me was that he did teach a reverse grip technique.

 

[Pàdruig]

I think one of the things I appreciate most from the video is the "There is no certain defense against the knife" bit. Which goes for any knife really. If you are getting into a knife fight, everyone is getting cut.

Unless you are.... Under Siege !!!

Most of what I know about the FS knife (which isn't much) was gleaned from Paul MacDonald from MacDonald Armouries. They make some pretty nice reproductions.

 

[SharpBits]

I think one of the things I appreciate most from the video is the "There is no certain defense against the knife" bit. Which goes for any knife really. If you are getting into a knife fight, everyone is getting cut.

Unless you are.... Under Siege !!!

Most of what I know about the FS knife (which isn't much) was gleaned from Paul MacDonald from MacDonald Armouries. They make some pretty nice reproductions.

Apparently that comes from his Defendu which is all attack, no defense.

 

[bluemax_1]

I'm sure the actual training was far more realistic vs this "primer" movie. One interest point for me was that he did teach a reverse grip technique.

I don’t know what he actually said vs what the translation read, but he explicitly mentions/emphasizes the loose grip, when he’s showing the “make this cut, then make this cut” movements.

The ONLY times I’ve seen people doing that, were ‘knife ballet’ experts who not only had zero experience actually fighting with knives, they had zero experience with even test cutting anything besides air.

I think I’ve mentioned before, but I’m one of the small number of weirdos who’s actually trained with weapons, from various sword styles, to knife fighting, and we sparred at full speed with the rubber trainer knives, made of closed cell foam, with felt edges. They were sturdy enough, that they could and did still leave marks and bruises with solid contact, but flexed enough to avoid serious injury. The felt edges were marked with red lipstick, so you could easily see where someone was scored on.

Real knife fighting isn’t fencing, or knife ballet. It’s pretty much MMA with a sharp, stabby cutting tool. It’s brutal, and fast, and knowing what we know about how long it takes a person to bleed out from even serious wounds, we saw firsthand, the meme that goes, “The loser of a knife fight bleeds out on the street. The winner bleeds out in the ambulance”.

Two fit, fast and aggressive fighters can score critical hits multiple times on each other within seconds. Depending on sparring partners, we might wear open finger gloves, pads and helmets and go heavy contact, where almost anything goes, including throws, knees, elbows because knife fighting isn’t a sport, it’s a no-holds barred situation. Dog Brothers has one of the most well known of these types of schools.

If you slashed at someone with the loose grip he demonstrated, and the blade actually made contact, you’d lose the knife.

 

[bluemax_1]

I think one of the things I appreciate most from the video is the "There is no certain defense against the knife" bit. Which goes for any knife really. If you are getting into a knife fight, everyone is getting cut.

Unless you are.... Under Siege !!!

Most of what I know about the FS knife (which isn't much) was gleaned from Paul MacDonald from MacDonald Armouries. They make some pretty nice reproductions.

I’d already been training with knives, and sparring with the foam rubber trainers, when this movie came out. I think I was the ONLY person in the theater who literally busted out laughing when this scene came on.

Everyone else just looked around with a, “What’s up with that nut?” look.

 

[SharpBits]

I don’t know what he actually said vs what the translation read, but he explicitly mentions/emphasizes the loose grip, when he’s showing the “make this cut, then make this cut” movements.

The ONLY times I’ve seen people doing that, were ‘knife ballet’ experts who not only had zero experience actually fighting with knives, they had zero experience with even test cutting anything besides air.

I think I’ve mentioned before, but I’m one of the small number of weirdos who’s actually trained with weapons, from various sword styles, to knife fighting, and we sparred at full speed with the rubber trainer knives, made of closed cell foam, with felt edges. They were sturdy enough, that they could and did still leave marks and bruises with solid contact, but flexed enough to avoid serious injury. The felt edges were marked with red lipstick, so you could easily see where someone was scored on.

Real knife fighting isn’t fencing, or knife ballet. It’s pretty much MMA with a sharp, stabby cutting tool. It’s brutal, and fast, and knowing what we know about how long it takes a person to bleed out from even serious wounds, we saw firsthand, the meme that goes, “The loser of a knife fight bleeds out on the street. The winner bleeds out in the ambulance”.

Two fit, fast and aggressive fighters can score critical hits multiple times on each other within seconds. Depending on sparring partners, we might wear open finger gloves, pads and helmets and go heavy contact, where almost anything goes, including throws, knees, elbows because knife fighting isn’t a sport, it’s a no-holds barred situation. Dog Brothers has one of the most well known of these types of schools.

If you slashed at someone with the loose grip he demonstrated, and the blade actually made contact, you’d lose the knife.

I understand what you are getting at. However, considering all the groups he trained, I am going err on the side that he actually knew a thing or two. Is suspect that what he taught has been added to and improved over the years.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Thanks for posting that. Never seen it before, but all it does is raise more questions.

That loose grip that he shows when they first close in showing his ‘knife handling’, anyone who’s ever done test cutting with a knife/blade, knows that ANY appreciable contact, and your knife is gone, which makes me skeptical of EVERYTHING henceforth.

The 8th inch diameter tang made me a little bit skeptical about the design