Ranking Chinese manufacturers?

[davek14]

I'm a slipjoint guy primarily. I am not enamored of Rough Rider steel. There has been talk of Rough Riders in carbon steel which will likely never bear fruit.

Sanrenmu has decent, useable steel. Nothing to write home about, but useable.

So when is a Chinese company going to make a well made slipjoint like Rough Rider with OK steel like Sanrenmu?

 

[Neo]

I would love to get my hands on a carson "one piece" knife, especially with uddeholm "viking" steel

I don't know many manufactures that make this sort of knives.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I'm a slipjoint guy primarily. I am not enamored of Rough Rider steel. There has been talk of Rough Riders in carbon steel which will likely never bear fruit.

Sanrenmu has decent, useable steel. Nothing to write home about, but useable.

So when is a Chinese company going to make a well made slipjoint like Rough Rider with OK steel like Sanrenmu?

Have you tried the Ganzo G725-M?

It's like a 85% scale model of the Buck 371 stockman.

It might be a bit small for Western hands. I have one but I don't carry it.

Sanrenmu do make some non-locking knives for their home market. They are still modern styled folding knives rather than a traditional shape though.

 

[Bastid]

Since this thread was started regarding the ranking of a niche of manufacturers off it goes to gb&u.

 

[Big Mike]

It's fairly obvious that the Chinese are capable of building quality knives, if the customer demands the quality and is willing to pay for it.

Some of the Chinese made knives from well known makers like Boker and AG Russel prove this point.

But the bulk of Chinese production is aimed at lower price point buyers, a market where pennies saved in production costs equal big profits for those in charge.



Big Mike

 

[RevDevil]

As a consumer of knives, my problem is the sullied reputation of the Chinese manufacturers. I refer to not know what you are getting for the money you are spending. Is that really (insert your favorite steel) on this knife? In a nutshell, China does not play by the same commerce rules as the majority of the world. They've proven time and time again that they cannot and will not be held accountable for some manufacturing deficiencies, inconsistencies, and "truth in labeling". I don't have many choices where to buy USA made items in other areas, such as electronics, furniture, or some clothing; but I do have a choice when it comes to knives. I'd rather spend my money as much or little as that may be on goods produced in the US, as it does help the local economies and gives companies a reason to keep making what they do here instead of packing up shop and moving everything overseas the way it happened for the last 25 years.

 

[Pittknife]

There is a huge difference between Chinese and Taiwanese made products. Taiwanese products are much higher quality and expense than Chinese. Similar to Japan, maybe a step below. A lot of the Chinese factories are owned by Taiwanese and have different levels of factory ratings.

From what I have seen and heard Reate is the best quality one now. They even offer outsourcing for mid tech type knives for American makers.

I'm also against any knock offs so kevin johns is out and so is dai.

 

[Neo]

Since this thread was started regarding the ranking of a niche of manufacturers off it goes to gb&u.

This was more a general question which would be better in general discussion and not to be hide away in knife exchange / feedback.

 

[Neo]

There is a huge difference between Chinese and Taiwanese made products. Taiwanese products are much higher quality and expense than Chinese. Similar to Japan, maybe a step below. A lot of the Chinese factories are owned by Taiwanese and have different levels of factory ratings.

From what I have seen and heard Reate is the best quality one now. They even offer outsourcing for mid tech type knives for American makers.

I'm also against any knock offs so kevin johns is out and so is dai.

I didn't know a lot of the Chinese factories are owned by Taiwanese, could you elaborate?

I somewhere heard Reate is made by (or is a subdivision of) A-Dai, could this be true?

 

[benchwarmer380]

This was more a general question which would be better in general discussion and not to be hide away in knife exchange / feedback.

A general question about knife manufactures rather than the knives themselves. Don't worry, this subforum gets a decent amount of traffic.

I've enjoyed the Chinese Kershaws I've owned. No opinion on the other companies listed.

 

[Neo]

A general question about knife manufactures rather than the knives themselves.

Yes indeed.
Is the fit and finish of Reate better than Kizer for example.
If the question would be: are the tolerances of CRK knives higher than those of Strider it wouldn't be put in the exchange.

 

[JR88FAN]

In my humble opinion, China is not even on the map when it comes to anything to do with knives. The 'quality' of the product is irrelevant to me.

It all comes down to your history as a nation with the product, and China's history with knife production is not in any way based around a love for edged tools as it is with what they do with everything, no innovation, just manufacture using dirt cheap labor and materials.

America has always had a very real infatuation with knives, as has Japan, and many parts of Europe and Africa.

When you have a long history of a real passion for something, you tend to innovate, lead in design and continue to evolve the thing you love (see knife makers in the above mentioned countries) I own knives from American, South African, and European, knives with as much sole authorship as I can, or I buy nothing.

The point of all this rambling (sorry) point me in the direction of one Chinese knife maker that innovates and pushes the industry forward. You can't. It (he) doesn't exist. What you have in China is tweaked copy's of others designs or out right counterfeits.
The premise is not to do anything but mass manufacture for as cheap as possible, and at this point, that is all it is.

As for Reate and Kizer. What can I say, the quality may be there, but there is zero soul..... I have no interest in buying something like that. If I was going to buy a cheap knife that contained a lot of Chinese parts, there are better options for the kind of money the above mentioned companies are asking for their 'knives'...

 

[Pittknife]

I didn't know a lot of the Chinese factories are owned by Taiwanese, could you elaborate?

I somewhere heard Reate is made by (or is a subdivision of) A-Dai, could this be true?

The factories were/are setup by Taiwanese. They have the manufacturing technology and common language (mandarin). The Taiwanese got it from the Japanese. As their economies and technology grew they offloaded the laborious and un-environmental work to the next level country.

I've been an engineer for 14 years and have gone to China over 70 times to manage and qualify these factories. Most of these have their headquarters and management in Taiwan. They wil also have a higher end factory in Taiwan for prototypes and tooling. Parts from this factory cost way more and are higher quality, but these factoies are smaller.

They will have 1 or more mega chinese factories, called a campus. They comprise of many mini factories sometimes shared, sometime s completely dedicated to one company.

These factories try to have all internal processes but sometimes have to outsource to an OS2 partner. It just depends on what they are making.

RevDevil is correct that you cannot guarantee the materials they use. They try to cheat all the time, I have caught my own factories trying to cheat me on materials. The business structure is a little complex since you can't legally own land in China. You have to setup businesses a certain way, sometimes with a local chinese fake owner. Anyways, I've caught them making my castings out of carbon steel rather than the 455ss I specified. It makes a huge difference since setup and shrinkage is different. That means your designs require more post process and you increase scrap rate. It's even worst for plastics, especially exotics I use such as exl 9330, they literally will throw in any pc or try to use 100% regrind, which is dangerous.

So unless you have the cash to do constant scientific lab QA from someone like the RJ Lee group or walk around with a bruser xrf good luck.

Sorry but there is a lot more, I just hate writing coherently.

 

[Neo]

It all comes down to your history as a nation with the product, and China's history with knife production is not in any way based around a love for edged tools as it is with what they do with everything, no innovation, just manufacture using dirt cheap labor and materials.

America has always had a very real infatuation with knives, as has Japan, and many parts of Europe and Africa.

When you have a long history of a real passion for something, you tend to innovate, lead in design and continue to evolve the thing you love (see knife makers in the above mentioned countries) I own knives from American, South African, and European, knives with as much sole authorship as I can, or I buy nothing.

You could be right or you could be wrong, I don't know.
Communist China is a very isolated country for us, I don't know if they there is some kind of knife culture.
You are right I don't know of any Chinese traditional knife designs.
But I'm sure we will see some changes in the not so distant future, if you see how much they evolved in the last years.
It takes some years and I'm sure they will come with some innovative designs of their own.
There is a growing number of Chinese that have money to spend and are interested in knives.

In fact a Chinese knife enthusiast showed here a knife called the "Duty" not long ago.
It was his own design and it had imho quite a lot of soul.

But I do understand what you mean.

 

[Neo]

Thank you Pittknife.

Yes the big problem is you can't be sure if the materials are really what they are labeled.
I hope the more expensive knives with a high grade of fit & finish have a better chance to have the correct materials.

 

[A. G. Russell]

The subject is, of course, of great interest to me. When Schrade and Cammilus were lost so was my American base. With Queen I was restricted to the use of existing patterns as the cost of new patters (the life blood of my business) made it impossible to make a knife that would sell enough pieces to break even.

After ny loss of the tiny Bertram company in 1980 I have had to teach every company I have done business with how to riise to the quality levels I want or to settle for the level they were able to do. You cannot have any idea how it pains my soul to settle for less than I want in Quality, I want, in traditional knives, as near Bose quality as I can sell at a reasonable price

I will not name the makers I have taught my standards of traditional quality, they already have more work than is pleasing to me, I have to wait more than I like. I cannot use the "rip off artists" even though they have taught themselves how to copy the best of the modern American makers and designers.

When those who do not like rip offs make it a shameful thing for someone to show a rip off then they will become a thing to the past. NOT BEFORE. Not likely to happen in this ce4ntury. I wish it would I would like to do business with people as talented as some of those now making rip offs.

This thread would have been more helpful to me if it had said, "so and so makes great X type knives and does (or does not) make rip offs.

thanks. A. G.

 

[Neo]

double post

 

[JD Mandrell]

Of the ones listed, I've only had experience with Kizer, and both of mine, are in the same ball park as any other high end company.

 

[JR88FAN]

You could be right or you could be wrong, I don't know.
Communist China is a very isolated country for us, I don't know if they there is some kind of knife culture.
You are right I don't know of any Chinese traditional knife designs.
But I'm sure we will see some changes in the not so distant future, if you see how much they evolved in the last years.
It takes some years and I'm sure they will come with some innovative designs of their own.
There is a growing number of Chinese that have money to spend and are interested in knives.

In fact a Chinese knife enthusiast showed here a knife called the "Duty" not long ago.
It was his own design and it had imho quite a lot of soul.

But I do understand what you mean.

China is building a knife culture right now, and we are talking about it.....

Show me a Chinese Jody Muller, or Chad Nell, or I can make a list of 1000 more names, and I will give them credit for more than taking advantage of cheap labor, and twisted politics...

 

[Pittknife]

BTW,

If I remember correctly, knives with locking bars are illegal in China to carry. I also remembers talking to a casting house on another product and they told me you have to have a special license to produce knives.

You could be right or you could be wrong, I don't know.
Communist China is a very isolated country for us, I don't know if they there is some kind of knife culture.
You are right I don't know of any Chinese traditional knife designs.
But I'm sure we will see some changes in the not so distant future, if you see how much they evolved in the last years.
It takes some years and I'm sure they will come with some innovative designs of their own.
There is a growing number of Chinese that have money to spend and are interested in knives.

In fact a Chinese knife enthusiast showed here a knife called the "Duty" not long ago.
It was his own design and it had imho quite a lot of soul.

But I do understand what you mean.