Ranking Chinese manufacturers?

Neo said:
This was more a general question which would be better in general discussion and not to be hide away in knife exchange / feedback. :rolleyes:
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Nice try for attention, but you are asking for ratings of a company not a knife or knives and that is more than obvious. That is what GB&U is for another obvious fact.

This thread was moved where it needed to go. As far as your attitude towards that fact - :rolleyes:
 
Lol at the pure racism towards China.
To say that an ancient culture does not even have a traditional knife of their own is pretty insulting Imo.
Just because you are ignorant about their culture does not mean they have none.
Sometimes I feel like I lose brain cells reading these asinine comments from uneducated folks. :barf:
 
I find it strange that Sal and Eric, who do an absolutely amazing job at bringing us wonderful
Collaborations with knife makers from all around the world (two from the country where I was born, with a whopping population of 10 million) have never done a collab. with a Chinese knife maker, even though they do a lot of manufacturing in China....

Maybe the mysterious guy behind the 'design' of Reate knives will be their first?....Or maybe Kevin John?
 
Seilu said:
Lol at the pure racism towards China.
To say that an ancient culture does not even have a traditional knife of their own is pretty insulting Imo.
Just because you are ignorant about their culture does not mean they have none.
Sometimes I feel like I lose brain cells reading these asinine comments from uneducated folks. :barf:
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Words are wonderful. Show me the knives and more importantly, the knife makers, please....
Share your education with the rest of us idiots....

There is no doubt knives have existed in China, just like guns, but you would never say the Chinese make great guns because of their passion for firearms, of maybe you would.

Oh, you started your post with 'lol' and then called this thread 'racist'
It might actually have some tones of PREJUDICE, but I am sure you know the difference, or have you lost too many brain cells reading this thread?
 
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Seilu said:
Lol at the pure racism towards China.
To say that an ancient culture does not even have a traditional knife of their own is pretty insulting Imo.
Just because you are ignorant about their culture does not mean they have none.
Sometimes I feel like I lose brain cells reading these asinine comments from uneducated folks. :barf:
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Racism? You might confusing that with Capitalism. As a consumer, you have the right to buy whatever in the world you want. Who said the Chinese have no traditional knife of their own? Come on, read up and educate yourself a little. Whatever the standards of ancient China were, seems to have been lost by the track record of business practices they employ. Try reading up a bit on what the predominant techniques have been. There has been a lot more to this whole topic overall than you seem to want to give credit to. Nice Red Herring/Ad Hominem combo.
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2011/04...s_knees_in_china_blame_the_joint_venture.html
 
Discrimination can be rational and is not the same thing as racism. You cannot attribute irrational motivations to perfectly rational actions just because it makes you feel better about yourself, "I buy Chinese knives therefore I'm not racist" is the kind of thought that could only exist in the head of the most illogical of thinkers.

I am a discriminating knife consumer. I am not at all ashamed to admit that I discriminate all the time, precisely because I am well acquainted with that which I discriminate.

The Chinese are a great and ancient civilization. And so are the Greeks. Neither of them currently bear any resemblance to their ancient ancestors.

I'm a very easy person to persuade. Just show me where I'm wrong. Show me the knives. The Taiwanese can make the hell out of a pocket knife. But if they weren't manufacturing Spyderco designs would anyone care?
 
Hey bro,

I don't think you should be using the race card here. Are people biased? Yes, and that is a right.

China doesn't have a large knife collecting culture, if I remember correctly it is illegal to own and carry knives with lockbars and grooves in them.

China is notorious with counterfiets, that's not racism, it's truth. I've had my own designs and patents stolen and ip used to make very dangerous knock offs and sold on eBay. I worked 3 years to make a new charger for our device and some guy in China tried to knock it off and sell on eBay. These devices have never been certified and do not have the correct protection circuitry. They could easily brick my devices that are $3k a piece or worst, start a fire or explode. Never mind that he infringed on my patents.

So now I'm forced to send our lawyers after him, waste my time documenting and proving infringement instead of working on better products.

I'm also an Asian, not born over here, I came here and worked my ass off to be an American, not just Asian American. I hate it when people throw race out there when that is not the issue. The Chinese are the ones that are breaking international patent laws, that's not racist to say.

Seilu said:
Lol at the pure racism towards China.
To say that an ancient culture does not even have a traditional knife of their own is pretty insulting Imo.
Just because you are ignorant about their culture does not mean they have none.
Sometimes I feel like I lose brain cells reading these asinine comments from uneducated folks. :barf:
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Also,

It shows poor form to call folks uneducated because they have an opinion. This is America and freedom of speech (opinion) is a foundation of our society. I also think that most people on BladeForum are quite educated.

As far as speaking from experience here is mine, 14 years going to China 3-6x a year. A lot of business Visas and relationships with factories over there, so I do believe I know what I'm talking about.

IMG_0101_zps42cdaa19.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Pittknife said:
Also,

It shows poor form to call folks uneducated because they have an opinion. This is America and freedom of speech (opinion) is a foundation of our society. I also think that most people on BladeForum are quite educated.

As far as speaking from experience here is mine, 14 years going to China 3-6x a year. A lot of business Visas and relationships with factories over there, so I do believe I know what I'm talking about.

IMG_0101_zps42cdaa19.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
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Mike,

be kind to these people and post the addresses of the Chinese knife forums, the pictures will blow them away. I have not seen them for several years but I was impressed with the handmade knives being done in China.
 
It is not poor form. Opinions can be uneducated. As Jr earlier claimed China has no history with knives, how do you know that? I love that subtle personal attack Jr88Fan, you seem to be very good at them. Keep them coming. I'm not afraid to go against the flow of groupthink, because valuable information is lost, and usually only a onesided argument is presented. Isn't that what this country is about, as previously stated earlier?


I personally do not buy Chinese knives for political reasons, but the absurd prejudice is astounding. Maybe I'll never buy an American car again and stay European/Japanese due to the shoddy track record in the past couple decades. Sound familiar? that's what you guys are doing.

Basing a whole country's history in the last couple decades and not giving them a chance is prejudice, but it goes past that with some of the comments I've seen lately.
I wouldn't have though of buying an American car anytime soon, but that 2014 Taurus looks tempting. Times change, get over yourselves.

A lot of these comments here seem to almost reach intellectual discussion level, but just falls short.
 
Seilu said:
It is not poor form. Opinions can be uneducated. As Jr earlier claimed China has no history with knives, how do you know that? I love that subtle personal attack Jr88Fan, you seem to be very good at them. Keep them coming. I'm not afraid to go against the flow of groupthink, because valuable information is lost, and usually only a onesided argument is presented. Isn't that what this country is about, as previously stated earlier?


I personally do not buy Chinese knives for political reasons, but the absurd prejudice is astounding. Maybe I'll never buy an American car again and stay European/Japanese due to the shoddy track record in the past couple decades. Sound familiar? that's what you guys are doing.

Basing a whole country's history in the last couple decades and not giving them a chance is prejudice, but it goes past that with some of the comments I've seen lately.
I wouldn't have though of buying an American car anytime soon, but that 2014 Taurus looks tempting. Times change, get over yourselves.

A lot of these comments here seem to almost reach intellectual discussion level, but just falls short.
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Selectively taking parts of one of my posts on this subject is really not the way to make your point.

Maybe you should read that post again....

I asked you a couple of important questions that you have not been able to answer either, this thread really needs your educated, and non-racist guidance.....

I am glad I could help you figure out the difference between 'racism' and 'prejudice' your vocabulary just got a little more understandable. You're welcome.

If you want to jump on a thread and call everyone a 'racist' and an 'idiot' you can expect a little bit of 'drama'
Most 'educated' people would get that.
 
Seilu,

I have a rule not to argue online so this will be my last post. Let me summarize what people are trying to say to you.

- it's not group think, that is a very basic concept from intro to psychology 113, a class I took in undergrad many moons ago. People on bladeforum tend to be real knife fanatics. So, if you want to use psychology, they are wanting the top of the pyramid from Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have fulfilled the basic need for a sharp pointy thing and want knives that have meaning and soul. They view chinese knockoffs as offensive to that and that chinese knives have not developed deeper meaning beyond making money.

-no racism here, just bias based on facts.

-you are using ad hominem and straw fallacies.

-you have also not established ethos or logos in your argument, only pathos.

My last post on this, I'm going back to searching for badass knives.
 
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Pittknife said:
Seilu,

I have a rule not to argue online so this will be my last post. Let me summarize what people are trying to say to you.

- it's not group think, that is a ver basic concept from intro to psychology 113, a class I took in undergrad many moons ago. People on bladeforum tend to be real knife fanatics. So, if you want to use psychology, they are wanting the top of the pyramid from Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have fulfilled the basic need for a sharp pointy thing and want knives that have meaning and soul. They view chinese knockoffs as offensive to that and that chinese knives have not developed deeper meaning beyond making money.

-no racism here, just basis based on facts.

-you are using ad hominem and straw fallacies.

-you have also not established ethos or logos in your argument, only pathos.

My last post on this, I'm going back to searching for badass knives.
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I am going to borrow your rule, if you don't mind.

I was really trying to put some serious thought and fact into my posts, but it seems like this has gone south real fast....
 
Those 'Carson Technology Knives' look awesome! I'll have to check out some of the other mentioned makers to see what they are making.
 
Thanks for the words of wisdom A.G....The only Chinese knives I own came from A.G...I have 2 that I've used every day for 3years..I do A.C work so the knives get a work out !! Now mind you ,they are not carried on Sunday ...A stag pinch is my blade of choice...Well that and my Dozier.!!

They can make a good knife..but 80%of the market doesn't Care...as long as its cheap !!
Most of them will buy 10


2Panther
 
Ive had 4 kizers and I tell ya, they have some of the best lock geometry ive seen in production knives. Ive had a prototype of their flipper for close to 2 years and after many thousands of flips it was still at 20% just like the day I got it. Also once I polished the washers and used froglube it could compete and beat out bearing flippers. Their s35vn is also heat treated pretty good, its no microtech but who is but it was better done than the s35vn on my para 2, as sad as I am to say that. Also carson tech make great knives, I have their Griffin and its very smooth, perfectly centered, great heat treat on the n77 steel and thats a tough steel to heat treat and great ano and fit and finish. Do I prefer American knives when I can, yes but Im not going to not buy a knife just because of where its made. I care more about fit and finish and great steel over borders. I wont however by kevin johns or wild biars because copying a design is bs and they need to come up with their own.
 
Seilu said:
Lol at the pure racism towards China.
To say that an ancient culture does not even have a traditional knife of their own is pretty insulting Imo.
Just because you are ignorant about their culture does not mean they have none.
Sometimes I feel like I lose brain cells reading these asinine comments from uneducated folks. :barf:
Click to expand...

unfortunately there is little left of "ancient china". I know our modern high school and college history books have omitted of most of it, however over the last century and a half their culture has been purged by European and American powers carving them up and economically and politically obliterating them, and whatever was left was eradicated (mostly from the end of a barrel and into a mass grave) by Mao's revolution. unfortunately that last one was the most pertinent to this discussion because it included Mao's ban on civillian ownership on weapons, including most knives, and all daggers and swords. what culture they have now is nothing that could be called ancient, it has existed for less than a century, and what remains of their traditional knife techniques, design and quality isn't something that will be seen outside of a museum. that said the reaction has been more to Chinese businesses which do have a well deserved reputation for cheaply made knock offs, counterfeits and low quality products, and to make things worse they have notoriously horrible working conditions and pay. even if you were to ignore all of their quality issues, the abuse of their workers to the level that they have to put nets up to keep the people from succeeding with their suicide attempts should speak volumes as to why not to buy from china.
 
Neo said:
Is there a ranking in the level of fit & finish between the different Chinese manufacturers?
Maybe one manufacturer has different names?

Reate , Kizer, Adai, Carson, Realsteel, District 9, Dicoria, "Wild Boar", "Kevin John", MG, ...

Not talking about clones or counterfeits but just about the level of execution.
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IMHO this is the order of quality from highest to lowest.

Carson, Adai/reate, kevin john, kizer, district9, realsteel, mg

Dicoria is not actually a manufacturer. They are a seller. They portray themselves as a manufacturer but I dont believe they are. Reate and adai I put on the same level. They deny any connection to each other but the similarities in the quality are incredibly close and while they may not be affiliated now, they seem to have the same teacher if you will. I think their fit and finish is great. They just need to work on cleaning the parts to be assembled more thoroughly as they can be gritty. After a cleaning they are very solid. Kevin john is very high quality If this company focused on its own designs they could do really well I might even dare to say these are on the same level as Adai or higher. The only issue is when there IS a problem its usually a major one. I have seen some knives from this maker and really been taken a back. Wildboar, real steel and MG I think are getting better but they still have a lot to learn. Especially in the finish quality department.

District 9 is a tricky because no one knows if the current district 9 knives are really made by the same people who originally made them. The first folder they made was reported to be very nicely made. The only issue with those first knives is they put a bearing system int here that was sorta useless as it used a bearings similar to what is used on a bicycle. So it didnt have the self centering characteristics nor the smooth action that moderns systems provide. For whatever reason just when those knives started getting attention they were gone. A new model resurfaced under the name K.O. and they were horrible. The bearings were gone and those knives had 5-8 copper washers in the pivot to take up the extra space. This led to very poor lock up and while they had a flipper there was no flipping those knives. The washers looked to have been made with a cheap die set and were "rough". Kizer has finish issues (minor but they are there) Carsons are very very nice. But costly. Now please understand I am speaking solely on build quality. Not ethics. I dont care to discuss that issue. I think its easy to understand why many have a problem with these companies. But thats not what this thread is about.

As to the materials used. There was a guy in Russia who actually had one of the A dai knives claiming to to have S35VN tested and the conclusion was that it was in fact S35VN but the hardness was on the softer side. It was theorized this was either a defect in their ability to heat treat or it was done on purpose due to the design of the knife. The blade design had questionable design characteristics and some thought that maybe if the steel was run too hard that it may fracture with repeated openings. Who really knows for sure? Usually price is a good indicator of quality and materials used. If a company is offering a knife for $50 and claiming to have CTS204p you know its a crock. If the knife is $185 and claiming S35VN chances are much better but still not certain. Some sellers use pics of knives to represent the product they are selling yet when you get it they are not the same thing. Its rare but it happens. One last thing on the subject of steel. When you see a seller claiming D2, 440C, VG10 etc usually its a chinese equivalent from CB that is being used. Remember that 440c and D2 is a generic term applied to any steel that falls within the parameters to be called as such. And that liberty is taken to the extreme in some cases. With that said I have not had any knife edge issues. On the subject of warranty and guarantee I have never had any issues with this. Every single time I have had a problem with a knife parts were sent out to me to do the fixing. I could have sent it back but I tinker so i had no problem doing the work. In one case I was sent everything except the blade free of charge and I was able to use the best parts of the lot to get the knife up to shape. In the cases where parts were not available I was given a very deep discount and many apologies.
 
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Hasty generalizations are. Over the years, I've found it best to evaluate products based on their own merits and dismiss all other factors and concerns. I've also learned to dismiss evaluations from those who have never personally seen or handled a product I may be interested in. I always try do my homework before I buy a knife and as a result, I'm rarely disappointed. YMMV.
 
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