Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Ankerson said:
I am not understanding the question... :confused:
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Jim, I think he implicitly thinks that i.e. modern supersteels (SS mainly), hard carbides rich, with hardness over 60, will be more difficult to sharpen than lets say a plain old 440C at 58-60.

Actually I found out that sharpening N690 @59-60 keeping the very same stock angle of 24°p.s. took me longer (1h10' against 45') more than doing the same with a custom Elmax at 62 at same angle.
Both are customs HTd at the best of useable hardness for each steel coming from the very same maker.
Both sharpened with DMT Blue per my request.
The path was Naniwa Chosera 400, 600, 1000, 3000, 5000 for N690. I could NOT start from 600 as it could NOT remove diamonds scratches from N690.
The path was Naniwa Chosera 600, 1000, 3000, 5000, 10000 for Elmax.

Obviously enough if you were to regrind the story would be different. Probably I'd go with DMT Black or Blue first, but only with S90/S110V and other beasts like them, Otherwise I normally rebevel with EdgePro diamonds, with a little bit more of effort, and the go the same path as for Elmax above.
 
Very good information. Yes exactly what I was asking. Thank you both Jim and daberti for your help.
 
That's right in the range we discussed or maybe slightly better. I've been wanting to try some for a while. Gonna have to get around to it soon.
 
darrin sanders said:
That's right in the range we discussed or maybe slightly better. I've been wanting to try some for a while. Gonna have to get around to it soon.
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Yeah, it ended up pretty much like I had guessed it would, not a bad guess really based on the alloy content, hardness, geometry etc.

I think the steel has a lot of potential.
 
That 4V is nice. Well rounded performance if corrosion isn't a problem. I like the performance of Z-Wear/Cru-wear/PD1 class steels. Personally I would give up some corrosion resistance for wear,strength,toughness unless around salt water. I have some 3v I'm working on that I hope to get to 60-61 rc and see how it performs with a thin edge.Believe it if not, I haven't owned or tested any 3v to date.
 
waterstoneblades said:
That 4V is nice. Well rounded performance if corrosion isn't a problem. I like the performance of Z-Wear/Cru-wear/PD1 class steels. Personally I would give up some corrosion resistance for wear,strength,toughness unless around salt water. I have some 3v I'm working on that I hope to get to 60-61 rc and see how it performs with a thin edge.Believe it if not, I haven't owned or tested any 3v to date.
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The performance was very good from looking at the data, the HT was dead spot on so that was a great job by Chris on the HT. :thumbup:

3V will work fine in the 61-62 range for a cutter.
 
Jim, yes Chris does a good job as I have six blades from him. He has been helpful to me as well. I was planning to use the 1950 f austenitize temp for a balance of wear and toughness. The blades will be 4-5" cutters so maybe I'll decide to use the 2050 f and pick up a point or so of hardness. I'm also using the 400f temper after the sub-zero quench.
 
I figured that a good example of 4V would rank up that high. I'm sure it's considerably tougher than the few knives that have higher edge retention, probably tougher than several below it, too. Hopefully we can see where it falls with a polished edge, too.
 
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bodog said:
I figured that a good example of 4V would rank up that high. I'm sure it's considerably tougher than the few knives that have higher edge retention, probably tougher than several below it, too. Hopefully we can see where it falls with a polished edge, too.
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I don't test polished edges anymore, the knife is gone back to Chris.
 
Ankerson said:
I don't test polished edges anymore, the knife is gone back to Chris.
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Just curious about why. Some of the steels appear to perform better with a polished edge or worse with a coarse edge. And is that the knife that Chris is going to use for the pass around?
 
bodog said:
... Some of the steels appear to perform better with a polished edge or worse with a coarse edge. ...
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Did any of the steels perform "better with a polished edge"?? I simply assumed that they all performed worse in this test, polishing the edges had the effect of bringing the performances closer together so that abrasion-resistance was less noticeable. Using a coarse edge potentiates the effect of abrasion-resistance, so long as you avoid leaving the edge so coarse that it crumbles - e.g. in CATRA tests of various steels cutting silica-embedded cards, 325-grit (45um) was behind 600 grit (25um), while 8000 grit (3um) was also behind 600 grit. Jim is using 400 grit ~37um. I can't remember how many cuts each steel was making before that change...
 
chiral.grolim said:
Did any of the steels perform "better with a polished edge"?? I simply assumed that they all performed worse in this test, polishing the edges had the effect of bringing the performances closer together so that abrasion-resistance was less noticeable. Using a coarse edge potentiates the effect of abrasion-resistance, so long as you avoid leaving the edge so coarse that it crumbles - e.g. in CATRA tests of various steels cutting silica-embedded cards, 325-grit (45um) was behind 600 grit (25um), while 8000 grit (3um) was also behind 600 grit. Jim is using 400 grit ~37um. I can't remember how many cuts each steel was making before that change...
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None of the ones listed in the Polished edge section did near 300 cuts...

So yeah polished edges perform a lot less.
 
Edges that are done correctly on a stone or diamond plate have more precise bevels, are easier to maintain and are higher performance overall. With that said, I'm talking about efficient slicing knives like Jim is testing. Choppers and large camp knives are another story as you would be there all week putting an edge bevel on .035" thick section. Then again larger knives don't need the extreme precise sharpness to chop wood ect.
 
waterstoneblades said:
Edges that are done correctly on a stone or diamond plate have more precise bevels, are easier to maintain and are higher performance overall. With that said, I'm talking about efficient slicing knives like Jim is testing. Choppers and large camp knives are another story as you would be there all week putting an edge bevel on .035" thick section.
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Yeah, they don't cut as well overall. :D
 
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