Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Ya, a custom would be best. I have a reground production fixed blade as well. I'm going to get a couple bars of S90V on my next steel order to try out.
 
Photos of the Michael Raymond Starlit, CPM 20CV. :)

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Really a beautiful knife. Just out of curiosity, Jim, does it have any kind of hidden lockbar stabilizer?
 
daberti said:
Ehm..are you sure that the 3V knife is at 62-63?
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Thats what the description on knifecenter and a few other cites said. I plan on sending it of to a friend whis a custom maker to have him test the hardness along with the Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter (I really want to know the hardness on that one since everywhere I see it states 60-61 hrc but Jims came back at 63.5). The hardness was one of the reasons I bought the knife, I like the design and I like 3v but you never see it ran that hard in productions. If it is 62-63 im glad that a few companies arent afraid to put out a knife with a harder heat treat than most feel is "safe" and I believe in supporting those companies, even Boker (although its the German made Boker and the quality on it is really nice for $160). I should know in a while aftef I get them sent of and the hardness tester will show where they land. I will say so far both have performed really nice.
 
d00mtr33 said:
Thats what the description on knifecenter and a few other cites said. I plan on sending it of to a friend whis a custom maker to have him test the hardness along with the Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter (I really want to know the hardness on that one since everywhere I see it states 60-61 hrc but Jims came back at 63.5). The hardness was one of the reasons I bought the knife, I like the design and I like 3v but you never see it ran that hard in productions. If it is 62-63 im glad that a few companies arent afraid to put out a knife with a harder heat treat than most feel is "safe" and I believe in supporting those companies, even Boker (although its the German made Boker and the quality on it is really nice for $160). I should know in a while aftef I get them sent of and the hardness tester will show where they land. I will say so far both have performed really nice.
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Uhm...from my literature 3V at 62 gains just 12%-15% in edge holding when compared to 3V at 60, yet toughness is 53J against 95J ;)
 
Doesn't the toughness simply need to be enough to prevent breaking the blade?
When was the last time that any of us broke a 3V knife?
 
3V is best IMO in the 58-61 rc range to benefit from its high toughness. If it's a dedicated slicer or a folder 62 rc is still fine. I would consider a steel like 4V being about as tough as 3V at 62 rc but better edge holding.
 
Fancier said:
Doesn't the toughness simply need to be enough to prevent breaking the blade?
When was the last time that any of us broke a 3V knife?
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Not the whole story. It plays a role in edge stability as well. A more important role IMO.
 
Toughness and strength are 2 different qualities. Toughness is related to impact resistance (especially on a sharpened edge) and strength has more to do with lateral stresses such as prying. There will be very little difference between the strength of given steel @ RC 58 and the same steel at @ RC 62 but toughness will definitely vary.
 
daberti said:
Uhm...from my literature 3V at 62 gains just 12%-15% in edge holding when compared to 3V at 60, yet toughness is 53J against 95J ;)
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Right on. The toughness of 3V goes down quickly when you get above RC 60 and toughness is the main reason for using 3V to begin with.
 
waterstoneblades said:
3V is best IMO in the 58-61 rc range to benefit from its high toughness. If it's a dedicated slicer or a folder 62 rc is still fine. I would consider a steel like 4V being about as tough as 3V at 62 rc but better edge holding.
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I definitely agree with this. 4V gives up very little to 3V in toughness at high hardness but the edge holding goes up dramatically. It all comes down to how much toughness you actually need for the tasks you intend the knife to be able to perform.
This is where custom makers who do their homework can maximize the performance of a blade intended for a specific task. Making a blade that performs several tasks well gets a bit tricky. Steel choice, hardness, & geometry all "trade-off" propositions. When you gain something in one area you have to give up something in another area. That's where the homework comes in. LOL
 
The performance of the knives tested in this thread appears to be heavily influenced by the geometry, hardness, and carbide volume of the steel.
How does impact resistance directly influence the rope cutting behavior?
 
It doesn't, because Jim doesn't CHOP the rope he CUTS it. There is no impact involved in this type of test. This thread is all about edge holding and zero to do with chopping. Ranking steels for chopping would require a completely different type of test.
 
I see some BESS scores in the chart/list on the first page. Is that going to be a regular thing from here on out?
 
daberti said:
Uhm...from my literature 3V at 62 gains just 12%-15% in edge holding when compared to 3V at 60, yet toughness is 53J against 95J ;)
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Yeah, I figured therd would be a big decrease in toughness at higher hardness but 53 J is still prettg good for a 3.75" linerlock ;-). Id be more worried about the lock failing than the steel but I dont plan to baton ironwood with this knife and ill take the extra wear resistance for edc use.
Now if this was a chopper then its a whole different story. Again, I don't kniw what the hardness is yet, im just going of what I saw on quite a few respectable knife dealer cites. Then again they list the CS Ultimate Hunter ar 60-61 hrc when Jims came back 63.5 so who knows. I bought the knife because I like Anso's designs and I had the n690 model before and liked it and been wanting to buy it again and 3v was just the bonus on tol I needed. Plus if it is 62-63 hrc which is way above the norm of what most production companies run their steels, I felt like supporting the maker for doing something different (like I did when I bought my first CS knife in the Ultimate Hunter) thatma lot of us ask for but we rarely get. With exception of Fantoni and Microtech most knife brands wouldn't ru their knives thst hard, I know why (thats a whole different topic) but they could make one or two models with a higher heat treat and a geometry suited for cutting and not prying of manhole covers. Cold Steel and Boker did something different and refreshing and I'm glad to spend my money to show them that its appreciated. Now if I can get some more nitrogen steel knives like vanax 35, n680 and if Erasteel has any N77 left or steels like aeb-l or 13c26 with a hardness over 60 and ground below 0.015 id be one happy knife nut.
 
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