Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

Phil Wilson said:
Singularity, just to be clear in the intrest of history, CPM S90V was the upgrade for CPM S60V. CPM S30V was developed to be easier to work with and heat treat than either S60V or S90V. Phil
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I believe S60V suffered from being too brittle and had chipping problems so they came up with S90V to solve those issues and it worked out very well. :)

I think I remember reading that Sal Glesser dropped a S60V blade on the concrete floor once and it shattered, I think it was around 60 HRC or so.
 
Great test you did and we all are grateful for it. It is very good that you gave the hardness for each steel because the martensite matrix holds the carbides and gives the strength of the edge.
The hardness test tell us very precise the amount of martensite is in the tested steel, and so how big is the strength. The carbides volume and the hardness tell us about the wear resistance of the steel .

As Mr. Phil Wilson once said this kind of tests are knives tests , but this shows how paramount is HT on steels. Because Mr. Bob Dozier perfected the D2 HT we need someone to perfect the HT for the new vanadium steels because there are better then D2 . This is Science of Materials and this science tell us that if toughness is no issue, carbides+hard steel matrix is better for edge retention.

Kind regards and many thanks for your time that you spent for this forum and youtube vids.
Mike
 
torquefactory said:
Great test you did and we all are grateful for it. It is very good that you gave the hardness for each steel because the martensite matrix holds the carbides and gives the strength of the edge.
The hardness test tell us very precise the amount of martensite is in the tested steel, and so how big is the strength. The carbides volume and the hardness tell us about the wear resistance of the steel .

As Mr. Phil Wilson once said this kind of tests are knives tests , but this shows how paramount is HT on steels. Because Mr. Bob Dozier perfected the D2 HT we need someone to perfect the HT for the new vanadium steels because there are better then D2 . This is Science of Materials and this science tell us that if toughness is no issue, carbides+hard steel matrix is better for edge retention.

Kind regards and many thanks for your time that you spent for this forum and youtube vids.
Mike
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Thanks Mike. :)

Knowing the hardness of the steels is important I believe instead of just listing the makers.
 
Jim and all. You are right, CPM S60V has a pretty low impact toughness (Charpy value) at hardness above 57 RC. In fact is less than D2 at the same hardness. Tensile and compressive strength (bending and denting) is adequate for knife blade as long as it is used as a slicing type moderate force blade. It can even be pushed to 58/59 RC for that application and will have great wear resistance (edge holding) due to the vanadium carbide load. They way to think about CPM S60V is the way Crucible describes it "basically 440C with added carbon and vanadium to form vanadium carbides for wear resistance". CPM S90V was introduced as an upgrade and has less chrome but more vanadium. Chrome works for corrosion resistance but does tend to make the steel less ductile. The higher vanadium percentage in S90V makes it a tad stubborn to heat treat and that is why higher temps are required to get a good hardness snap. We also have to keep in mind that both of these were originally developed for the plastics industry. It is nice that they make good knife blades but that was not the original intent. Phil
 
Ankerson said:
Did you ever get your 10V knife back yet. :D
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I've been buried at work as well this week, working through the night a few times on emergencies (being on call can really suck sometimes), delaying me sending sodak's knife back. I planned on mailing it back last week, though I had a procedure involving very large needles getting stuck in my back to fry the nerves, and I have had much more pain than expected from that fun experience, and I didn't have steady legs under me for a couple days (no BS, I actually had my legs give out on me twice after the procedure). All of that is just bad excuses though, and after work today I will definately get sodak's knife in the big brown truck on it's way home as I'm no longer on call as of today.

I must say that the performance of Phil Wilson's 10V is mind boggling, as it is almost impossible to get it dull. It is so thin that it only takes minimal effort to get it at full sharpness again on a quick microbevel. That is one serious knife, and I can't thank Sodak enough for letting me play experience it.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
I've been buried at work as well this week, working through the night a few times on emergencies (being on call can really suck sometimes), delaying me sending sodak's knife back. I planned on mailing it back last week, though I had a procedure involving very large needles getting stuck in my back to fry the nerves, and I have had much more pain than expected from that fun experience, and I didn't have steady legs under me for a couple days (no BS, I actually had my legs give out on me twice after the procedure). All of that is just bad excuses though, and after work today I will definately get sodak's knife in the big brown truck on it's way home as I'm no longer on call as of today.

I must say that the performance of Phil Wilson's 10V is mind boggling, as it is almost impossible to get it dull. It is so thin that it only takes minimal effort to get it at full sharpness again on a quick microbevel. That is one serious knife, and I can't thank Sodak enough for letting me play experience it.

Mike
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Mike,

Sorry to hear about your medical problems, that always sucks. :(

I see you found out what I already knew, that knife just doesn't get dull. :eek:

CPM-10V the way Phil Wilson does his is just mind boggling. :D
 
No problem Gunmike, it's not hunting season, there's no hurry. Just get better, that's more important! The M2 HSS is in the mail, I'll PM you with tracking information.

I sure got lucky with that 10V, and also that Phil was willing to push it to the edge (pun intended :D) for me!
 
sodak said:
No problem Gunmike, it's not hunting season, there's no hurry. Just get better, that's more important! The M2 HSS is in the mail, I'll PM you with tracking information.

I sure got lucky with that 10V, and also that Phil was willing to push it to the edge (pun intended :D) for me!
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That 10V knife is truly a knife that will cut almost forever I think. :eek:

It's better than most could ever dream a blade could be. :thumbup:
 
sodak said:
No problem Gunmike, it's not hunting season, there's no hurry. Just get better, that's more important! The M2 HSS is in the mail, I'll PM you with tracking information.

I sure got lucky with that 10V, and also that Phil was willing to push it to the edge (pun intended :D) for me!
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So, in your opinion, how does the M2 HSS compare to the 10V?
 
I was afraid you'd ask that.... It's not too far off. 10V rules the roost in my house, but the M2 was in 2nd place, and at the time I was testing, I didn't have anything to really challenge the Wilson - no S90V, M390, etc. Most of my testing was push cutting through manilla rope, so we might see different results here. My testing showed that it was Phil's knife, then the M2, then, a loooooooong way down, everything else.

I'm interested to see what Mr. Ankerson has to say. I want him to disregard anything I might say or think, and just tell it like he sees it.
 
sodak said:
I'm interested to see what Mr. Ankerson has to say. I want him to disregard anything I might say or think, and just tell it like he sees it.
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That's exactly how I am, I always call it how I see it even if it's not quite what people want to hear. :)

It's hard being brutally honest sometimes, but that's me.

I can tell you from my testing that there is nothing even close to 10V so far.
 
Jim,

Thank you for doing all this testing and posting. I feel I have learned a lot from it.

Bill
 
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