Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

The M390 Mule result was surprising really. Didn't really expect a 4% vanadium steel to match up with the 9% steels. Makes Vanax75 seem even more promising. I assume you'll be testing the new Kershaw Tilt?
 
This thread was an interesting read. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing some more Spyderco Para 2 sprints in CTS 20CP and M390.

I am a bit disappointed to see where ZDP-189 and VG-10 performed, but I guess that pure edge retention isn't always what every knife needs right? For example, the Schempp Rock is probably better off with a tougher softer VG-10 so it won't be as prone to chipping right?
 
Jet B said:
This thread was an interesting read. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing some more Spyderco Para 2 sprints in CTS 20CP and M390.

I am a bit disappointed to see where ZDP-189 and VG-10 performed, but I guess that pure edge retention isn't always what every knife needs right? For example, the Schempp Rock is probably better off with a tougher softer VG-10 so it won't be as prone to chipping right?
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Indeed, Spyderco did an outstanding job of heat treating M390. Thanks to that, I've pre-ordered a Military and Para2 in M390, and I'll be sending my M390 Mule off(which I didn't touch for months) to get handles made along with a sheath. Yes indeed, Spyderco has outdone itself in separating my money from my wallet:D.

To be honest, I believe edge geometry, particularly edge angle and how thin the edge is behind the edge will play a bigger role in whether the steel chips easily or not. As for ZDP, I wouldn't count it out yet. The true selling point is that it can be hardened further. Not ideal in a heavy use knife, but good enough in a light or small EDC or Chef's knife. I have a Miyabi 7000MC 8" Chef's Knife(ZDP at Rc 66) that does excellent in the kitchen and takes a stupid sharp edge. And I've been eyeing a William Henry with ZDP, which I hear is Rc 67 from them.

A point or two in difference typically makes a noticeable increase in edge retention, so ZDP at Rc 66-67 could probably compare to M4.
 
Noctis3880 said:
The M390 Mule result was surprising really. Didn't really expect a 4% vanadium steel to match up with the 9% steels. Makes Vanax75 seem even more promising. I assume you'll be testing the new Kershaw Tilt?
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It has to do with Alloy content. :)

No, I didn't preorder a Tilt.
 
I pre ordered one from kershawguy, i beleive it was the first day the pre order was up in a thread on the exchange. Unfortunatly i did not recieve one from the first shipment. If i get one from the next shipment i will send you that one for testing if u want
 
spydusse said:
I pre ordered one from kershawguy, i beleive it was the first day the pre order was up in a thread on the exchange. Unfortunatly i did not recieve one from the first shipment. If i get one from the next shipment i will send you that one for testing if u want
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Sure, you can send it when you want. :)
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Hey Jim. Just got two of the kershaw tilts. Its cutting edge is Vanax75 at 60-61 hrc. Wonder where that would place?
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My guess- it'll be in its own category at the top.

Nitrogen seems to act similar to carbon in the matrix, so that 4.2% of nitrogen might be similar to having 4.2% of carbon, which is higher than ZDP-189 at 3% carbon. Of course, that's just my speculation. However, if you look at the placement of Vanax35 and its composition, you might also say that Vanax75 should be even more impressive with over twice the nitrogen content, and presumably twice the nitride volume.

However, I feel I would be more than satisfied if the performance is similar to S110V, but without being as prone to chipping. And I suspect Vanax75 will be tougher than other 9% vanadium steels in its class thanks to the 3rd generation PM process that Bohler uses. Stainless CPM-10V perhaps? I suspect it'll also take and hold a finer edge longer as well if Elmax and M390 are any indication of that.
 
Noctis3880 said:
My guess- it'll be in its own category at the top.

Nitrogen seems to act similar to carbon in the matrix, so that 4.2% of nitrogen might be similar to having 4.2% of carbon, which is higher than ZDP-189 at 3% carbon. Of course, that's just my speculation. However, if you look at the placement of Vanax35 and its composition, you might also say that Vanax75 should be even more impressive with over twice the nitrogen content, and presumably twice the nitride volume.

However, I feel I would be more than satisfied if the performance is similar to S110V, but without being as prone to chipping. And I suspect Vanax75 will be tougher than other 9% vanadium steels in its class thanks to the 3rd generation PM process that Bohler uses. Stainless CPM-10V perhaps? I suspect it'll also take and hold a finer edge longer as well if Elmax and M390 are any indication of that.
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WOW! I am looking forward to using this knife!



Ankerson said:
I really couldn't say at this point...
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I so SO hope you get one of these tilts to test. Possibly one of mine.
 
I have a couple of Spyderco Mule #12's on the way in case you wanted to test CruWear.

View attachment 232488

Sometimes I bump into old references to the rare (extinct?) alloy called Vascowear.
Supposedly CruWear is very similar.
 
Noctis3880 said:
My guess- it'll be in its own category at the top.

Nitrogen seems to act similar to carbon in the matrix, so that 4.2% of nitrogen might be similar to having 4.2% of carbon, which is higher than ZDP-189 at 3% carbon. Of course, that's just my speculation. However, if you look at the placement of Vanax35 and its composition, you might also say that Vanax75 should be even more impressive with over twice the nitrogen content, and presumably twice the nitride volume.

However, I feel I would be more than satisfied if the performance is similar to S110V, but without being as prone to chipping. And I suspect Vanax75 will be tougher than other 9% vanadium steels in its class thanks to the 3rd generation PM process that Bohler uses. Stainless CPM-10V perhaps? I suspect it'll also take and hold a finer edge longer as well if Elmax and M390 are any indication of that.
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No, it won't be like 10V or S110V I don't think at that hardness (60-61).

I am thinking around S90V performance with the carbide content and hardness, but that remains to be seen and with it being a composite blade that's coated hardness testing would be out of the question.
 
Ankerson said:
No, it won't be like 10V or S110V I don't think at that hardness (60-61).

I am thinking around S90V performance with the carbide content and hardness, but that remains to be seen and with it being a composite blade that's coated hardness testing would be out of the question.
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Thank you Ankerson .....S90V is close enough for me :cool: you made this ol man very happy with that statement.
Why is testing composite blades out ??
 
Ankerson said:
No, it won't be like 10V or S110V I don't think at that hardness (60-61).

I am thinking around S90V performance with the carbide content and hardness, but that remains to be seen and with it being a composite blade that's coated hardness testing would be out of the question.
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Hmm, but the nitride volume should be significantly higher if you compare the carbon and nitrogen content, along with chromium and molybdenum. Still, hardness may not be the end all of edge retention if ZDP-189 and CPM-M4 are any examples of that.

While hardness would be a big factor in steels with a similar makeup like S90V and CTS-20CP, I feel the elemental makeup is different enough to throw that consideration out the window. Vanax75 does happen to have a whopping 7.5% more chromium than S90V.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Hmm, but the nitride volume should be significantly higher if you compare the carbon and nitrogen content, along with chromium and molybdenum. Still, hardness may not be the end all of edge retention if ZDP-189 and CPM-M4 are any examples of that.

While hardness would be a big factor in steels with a similar makeup like S90V and CTS-20CP, I feel the elemental makeup is different enough to throw that consideration out the window. Vanax75 does happen to have a whopping 7.5% more chromium than S90V.
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I said around and I do believe that Vanax 75 could be taken a lot harder than 60-61 HRC so that could factor into it as well depending on where that sweet spot in hardness is for that steel, they all have one.

It would be like running CPM 10V at 60-61, now that would be a complete waste of steel, same as running S110V at 60-61 while running S90V at 60-61 is fine.
 
djdawgdj@aol.com said:
Thank you Ankerson .....S90V is close enough for me :cool: you made this ol man very happy with that statement.
Why is testing composite blades out ??
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It's both coated (Would have to be removed) and composite (Won't get a good reading, not really a smart thing to try).

If I owned one I would put it right in the safe and NOT USE IT AT ALL.
 
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