Rare !!!Plumb axe help dating and other information

[quinton]

This thread sure changes things. This is what debate it is all about, imho..

 

[Agent_H]

Unfortunately you have nothing definitive to work with but it's neither very old (pre 44 with 'take up' wedge) nor very new (post 81) IMO. That there is no Permabond means it's a utility model (or made between 44 and 56) and not high end. Knob end (instead of fawns foot) handles (seems to me) were fashionable in the 50s. I think it's fairly safe to guesstimate mid 50s for this +/- and not be challenged. The head is nicely sculpted and finished and it was carefully hung. Craftsmanship definitely began to decline starting in the 1960s.
Hang it on the wall as a keepsake and keep your eye open for another one that you can actually use without depreciating the value.

Well said.

 

[Square_peg]

Some more data, to add to the mix. A price sheet for Plumb axes, dated 1964. "Permabond Assembly" is listed for Jet Wing, Dreadnaught, and National brands.

The Plumb All American axes have no mention of Permabond. (They are available in Dayton, Jersey, Kentucky, Michigan, Swamping, and Western patterns, at $48/dozen, in contrast with the $60 and up cost listed for Jet Wing and Dreadnaught).

Good post!

The National patterns did have permabond.

 

[300Six]

Another gem! Thanks Square_Peg. For 15-20% more than an ordinary axe in 1964 you can get 'Dock' (?) pattern (catalogue DKH) in 3 to 5 lb featuring "hardened heads". No mention of any such thing (nor is this reflected in the price) with respect to 'Miners' axes.
'Nationals' in 1964 are 3 1/2 lb polished black with Permabond. The one I posted is 3 1/2 lb velvet (ie flat) black finish with no Permabond, and we now know these weren't introduced until 1948-49 (patent Sept 10 '48).

These catalogue illustrations and other info within this thread really should be 'stickied' or somehow made available for viewing, and for adding on, as a dedicated Plumb-specific thread because there's a mountain of stuff to be gleaned out of all this.

 

[Steve Tall]

...'Nationals' in 1964 are 3 1/2 lb polished black with Permabond...

There's a second page with the same 1964 date, which has 2 additional sizes of "National" heads (on 28" and 16" handles), as well as 2 sizes of Cedar axes, plus Construction axes, House axes, Cruisers, Pulaskis, Firemans axes, etc. I will post this up shortly.

 

[Steve Tall]

The second page of the Plumb price list dated March 2, 1964:

 

[Agent_H]

I didn't read every word but it's interesting.

https://www.google.com/patents/US2850331

Publication number US2850331 A
Publication type Grant
Publication date Sep 2, 1958
Filing date Sep 13, 1954
Priority date Sep 13, 1954
Inventors Curry John J, Robert Watson
Original Assignee Fayette R Plumb Inc

"...the handle has intimate contact with the metallic head..."

 

[Square_peg]

Good post. Thanks, Agent H.

"Adjustable wedges are effective for only a short time after initial assembly of the tool because the hygroscopic wood tends to swell when picking up moisture as a result of high ambient humidity conditions. As the wood swells within the fixed volume of the tool head eye, the wood cells, which may be likened to minute ping pong balls, are collapsed as required to adjust for the increased volume of the handle due to the swelling of the wood. Subsequently, when the relative ambient humidity has reduced below that of the wood in the eye, the wood when giving up moisture will have a tendency to reduce in volume, with the result that a loosening of the assembly is elfected."

Translation - keep the eye wood dry. Some of us are using beeswax mixtures to seal the top and bottom of the eye. It helps. Beeswax, BLO & turps does a good job.

 

[Agent_H]

There is a lot chemical talk in there but is this concoction the patent for the initial Permabond?

"The addition of the black dye to the epoxy resin in the manner described above tints the resin to match the color of the tool head, thereby producing a neat and attractive tool, in addition to the advantages enumerated above."

Also, does the patent filing date of Sep 13, 1954 seem to fit?

 

[Steve Tall]

There is a lot chemical talk in there but is this concoction the patent for the initial Permabond?

"The addition of the black dye to the epoxy resin in the manner described above tints the resin to match the color of the tool head, thereby producing a neat and attractive tool, in addition to the advantages enumerated above."

Also, does the patent filing date of Sep 13, 1954 seem to fit?

Yes, and yes.

Permabond patent awarded 1958.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Well said.

I don't think I could bring myself not to use it if it was mine , when does someone my age get to use a vintage hatchet fresh off the hardware store shelf ?? After all it is a tool that was meant to be used , and it just seems wrong for it to never get to sink it's bit :crushed::crushed:
If I wasn't gonna use it I'd sell it to a fellow axe aficionado who would ( if I had the money I'd gladly pay 2X what a Swede axe costs for the chance to experience a vintage plumb fresh off the rack ) it's the same thing as rich people paying top dollar to drink vintage wines.

 

[300Six]

The second page of the Plumb price list dated March 2, 1964:

The plot thickens! Interesting amongst the 28 inch handle non-Permabonds "boy's" axes that 2 1/4 lb 'National' and 'Plumb Advertised' are priced 20% higher than the same weight All American.

Also the original poster should take the time to get out a tape measure and weigh scale to see which of the ones portrayed in the above price list of "hunters axes" correspond to his. None of them seem to be Permabond!

 

[Steve Tall]

The plot thickens! Interesting amongst the 28 inch handle non-Permabonds "boy's" axes that 2 1/4 lb 'National' and 'Plumb Advertised' are priced 20% higher than the same weight All American.

Also the original poster should take the time to get out a tape measure and weigh scale to see which of the ones portrayed in the above price list of "hunters axes" correspond to his. None of them seem to be Permabond!

Okay, here's a page of pictures that supposedly went along with those price lists (since it's not dated, I'm being cautious). The National axes are all shown as having Permabond. The "Hunters", "House", and "Boys" axes are all shown as having Permabond, except for the "All American" ones which are notably missing any mention of Permabond.

By the way, these pages come from a Plumb catalog JPG file that I found online, and I know I previously gave the link to it in another thread (I will look for it). Somebody called it a 1965 catalog, but nowhere does it have this title, and most of the pages are undated. The pages that are dated are either 1965, 1964, or 1956. One of the pages has a color ad which says that all Plumb axes have Permabond. What year that ad was made, and whether it was 100% correct at the time, is a mystery.

 

[Steve Tall]

Here's the thread with the link to those Plumb price sheets:

"Vacuum Cup" according to this site:
http://hickoryhandle.blogspot.com/2013/08/handle-manufacturer-of-past_8255.html

By the way, that site has a Plumb catalog from 1965 available for download.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJxodHACRRuVXYyTDdZaWM2WTQ/view?pli=1

I didn't know the difference between these hatchet types until I read that catalog:
Flooring Hatchet
Car Builders Hatchet
Box Hatchet
Barrel Hatchet
Produce Hatchet
etc.

 

[300Six]

Gidday Steve. The catalogue numbers of the pictured items on the undated page match the numbers in the Mar 2 '64 price lists. Permabond hangs outnumber the products that don't. Also makes more sense of the term 'Plumb advertised' in the price list when you see the actual item (with corresponding number) on the following page.

 

[Steve Tall]

Gidday Steve. The catalogue numbers of the pictured items on the undated page match the numbers in the Mar 2 '64 price lists. Permabond hangs outnumber the products that don't. Also makes more sense of the term 'Plumb advertised' in the price list when you see the actual item (with corresponding number) on the following page.

I see what you mean. The 'Plumb advertised' has the 'advertised finish' with all-black head (except for the bevel at the bit). The All American has a partially-black head (unpainted cheeks near the bit).

 

[Steve Tall]

For the record, here's another undated page that supposedly accompanied the 1964 price sheets. Perhaps the label designs can convey some information, for example confirming that the Dreadnaught label was used during the 1960s (YesteryearsTools wasn't definite about this). Although the details aren't clear, the All-American labels look similar to an example that YesteryearsTools listed as being used after 1981.

To see more detail, Right-click on this image, then choose View Image, then click on resulting image to enlarge it (at least this is how it works on my computer).

 

[SC T100]

I'd love one of those 4-5 lb Plumb Constructor's axes on a straight 36" handle! Well, I'd love any of those listed above as well, too.

I'm starting to think the my 3-lb double bit with a black head (I think, or it's patina) and permabond may be one of the Dreadnaughts. And I'm thinking its a western pattern too. Love these old catalog photos. EDIT: nevermind...this catalog only lists that head as a bare head...not with a permabond handle. The mystery continues.

 

[Steve Tall]

...
I'm starting to think the my 3-lb double bit with a black head (I think, or it's patina) and permabond may be one of the Dreadnaughts. And I'm thinking its a western pattern too. Love these old catalog photos. EDIT: nevermind...this catalog only lists that head as a bare head...not with a permabond handle. The mystery continues.

I'm not following , because the 3-pound Western pattern Dreadnaught doublebits with black head and Permabond are listed, both on the picture page and the price list page.

 

[SC T100]

I'm not following , because the 3-pound Western pattern Dreadnaught doublebits with black head and Permabond are listed, both on the picture page and the price list page.

Oh! I guess you're right (and I was right the first time). I was reading "Plain Bit Axes" as just available as the head, though they are listed under the Permabond. I wonder what "Plain Bit" means to them. So I guess I was correct to begin with. Thanks Steve!

Actually, my handle still has the remnants of a sticker, so now I know what that sticker probably said based on the catalog above...Permabond.

Oh, and I'd love to also find one of those 3.5 Lb Connie Pattern Dreadnaughts. Thats got to be a great looking and feeling axe if my DB from this period is any indication.