RAT E&E Kit

yes I will make a few Changes/Additions but you have to make them the way you want them, this looks like a good base kit but has the potential to be a very elite kit with some modifications.


RickJ
 
Basic Kit with Variations....

I have the basic kit as I already have the other three components to make the advanced kit. So I made the following adjustments to my basic kit...

Removed the Aloksak - Its purpose sems to be for general carry of components outside of the pouch, and as a water carrier, but it does not hold a measurable quantitiy of water which defeats the object of having Katadyn in the kit.
Added 1 litre ziplock water pouch - Serves the same purposes, but stands upright on its own, is measured off for use with Katadyn, and can be frozen and/or boiled gently. Roaster bags work just as well. You can pre-mark them with 1 and 2 litre lines.
Added 6 non-bleach water purification tablets.

Removed the folding saw - It's flimsy and I see no purpose for it given it's size and fragility. Cheap crap.
Added Tops folding saw - Curiously, this used to be the folding saw in RAT's original E&E Kit. Larger and more robust, and will saw through most things.

Removed the lead shot from the fishing kit - Health aside, these weights are very poor quality. Just try using them with your fingers.
Added 4 pre-assembled hooks and lines, 4 flies, a spinner, 15 non-lead split shot sinkers, 4 swivels, additional bait, 20m of additional line, a single large hook, and some brass picture frame eyes for quickly improvising a rod.

Removed the flint and striker - This particular flint and striker is prone to breaking and is poor quality.
Added an almost identical flint with no striker. There is already a P38 and a Tops saw in the kit, so the additional striker is superfluous.

Removed the button compass - again, this compass is very poor quality and prone to both inaccuracy (due to prolonged exposure to magnetic items within the kit itself, the mini pry bar for example), and air bubble inclusion when exposed over time to large variations in atmospheric pressure (mountaineering, air travel, air freight cargo etc.) In fact mine arrived with an air bubdle already within it. These are cheap chinese imports and you can buy them in bulk at about 20 to the dollar.
Added a Francis Baker 1605 NATO Survival Compass - Just as small, but highly sensitive due to the lack of the dampening fluid, and not susceptable to air bubbles or the thickening of the dampening fluid in at sub-zero temperatures. This particular compass has been the mainstay of the US Special Forces for more than half a century and is still the best button compass on the planet.

Added mini pry bar - Still one of the best little tools around.
Added two sharpenned 5" masonry nails - Google (or better still, Bing) Ranger Rick on improvised weaponry.
Added a Leatherman Surge replacement diamond file - very small and very hard wearing. great for sharpening anything on the fly in the field.
Added two 10x1/2" rubber bands.
Added additional wound closure strips.
Added HemCon 2x2" Haemostatic gauze - I just prefer this one over it's cheaper alternative.
Added two sterile stainless steel scalpal blades - because the folding scalpal blade isn't gonna be too clean after you've gut a fish with it.
Added Fallkniven U2 folding knife - Would love tho think I'd have my Izula with me, but in the UK we can't EDC without cause, and a lockback is pushing it a bit legally as it is.
Added wet fire tinder tablet.
Added 1x2' of heavy duty aluminium foil - for obvious reasons.

The suture - I have access to these, but I am unsure about either the wisdom af carrying one in your PSK (they are very hard to use without an instrument to grip it with. Fingers just don't cut it), or whether the reverse cutting needle is the better choice. A foot of 2" wide duct tape would probably be a better option, and I do have some 30mg Codiene tablets which are great for extreme pain which I might sneek in there.

Further additions - I'd like an additional Diamode tablet for the pack if I can get one, and Diphen. I'm also looking for rubber ranger bands because you can't buy them in the UK.

In a nutshell....

Disappointments - I am disappointed with the quality of some of the component items. A lot of cheap items were put in there just to keep the profit margin higher, and at that price point you would expect a better level of forethought and quality. In particular, the compass is absolutely the worst goddam compass on the planet. As Doug Ritter will tell you, if you're gonna pack a cheap compass, at least go with a 20mm diameter plastic compass, 'cos the odds are it might actually work. The folding saw is a step backwards, not in the name of space saving, but in the interest of making more money. The meds - not even a full single dose of diamode/imodium.
Nice surprises - Absolutely no idea why, as it's probably no use at all, but I like the handcuff key. On a more practical note, the cheap taiwanese P38 ripoff has a strange little spoon extension to the back which I can see as useful. It can serve as a spoon or be sharpenned if necessary as a blade. The pack of caffiene gum is a nice touch also, and the folding scalpal blade is one of the better ones I've seen.

So, that's what I've done with RAT's E&E Kit. A good base point for those who are up for buying it, especially seeing as it takes time to get together bits individually, but it certainly could be put together a lot cheaper if you bought the components individually. The pouch is the E&E Pouch from Bestglide.com.

I'm curious to know what others have added and removed from theirs.
 
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The folding saw you removed , I use mine as a striker on my LMF army Fire steel(works great),the flint & striker ,is pretty good ,I can get a fire going with it quickly,produces good spark and does the job of starting a fire...:thumbup:
I have tinkered with my RAT E&E kit as well, I Removed the holder,I installed all componets in an Otter box 2000 w/ leather holder from KSF and added a few items as well. I'l post pics at later date...:D
anyone who has purchased the RAT kit or doug Ritters,or Adventure medicals SOL ,does not matter what kit you own everbody is different and adds or takes away items they do not like, if you keep your kits Stock as purchased or Tinker with them to suite your needs( I hope everyone does) Not one kit on the market will be the perfect kit for you... I have purchased them all and yet to find the perfect pocket PSK all must be modified to a degree to fit your needs IMO :D
 
The NATO Compass you speak of, is that the WW2 RAF-like Peyser brass (dry) button compass?

While the overall commentary on compasses is blunt and true, I think serious people purchase serious things, as you did. So, it's a kit and it's marketed as an "advanced" kit and I still think that fits the bill. No one else is making a kit like this that regular people can purchase and it has to be remembered that this kit is supposed to go hand in hand with a Passport and a Visa. It's not necessarily the be-all/end-all pocket survival kit for people trucking around the woods here but more geared for people going overseas.

All of that having been said, my two Peysers are expensive and they're accurate but I have not noticed a decline or HUGE difference in accuracy in the many compasses I own - they are all rudimentary directional finders in my opinion anyway. I just received two Suunto Clipper Compasses last week which are simply excellent as well.

I think everyone makes changes to their kits. Dermabond and a foil packet of petroleum jelly in place of a suture would be one such replacement that I carry in whatever kit I am carrying.
 
Yes, the Pyser FB 1605 NATO Survival Compass. All brass and glass. They pop up on eBay from time to time, buy otherwise tend to be very expensive.

I don't have a problem with the bog standard 20mm liquid filled compass. It's a solid performer and even if it does develop a bubble, the disk is big enough not to be influenced by it. It's the compass that is included in most BCB tins, and in the AMK kits.

But the 11mm chinese compass is notoriously bad and is simply a piece of shit. They are so bad that the factory ships them in QA grades AA, A, B, C and D, with only the AA grade being ones that leave the factory without air bubbles, and purchasers in bulk are warned that a high percentage are likely to develop air bubbles. Bubbles in an 11mm compass more often than not result in random readings which is downright dangerous. They'd have been better giving you a magnetised pin and telling you to float it on water.

The folding saw I swapped out for the Tops heavy duty folding saw. I do find them quite useful.

Jury's still out on the suture. 1m of nylon suture is a useful spare fishing line thought. And someone mentioned superglue instead of a suture? But I don't know where. I'm still considering adding a suture to mine, although if I go buy a length of inner tube, I might just wrap the lot in a length of inner tube and stick a flat pack of duct tape in with it.

I actually like the zippered case. Part of the reason I bought it. It replaces my Mazpedition Cocoon in which my previous kit lives.
 
The cool thing about sutures is they can be used to repair clothing, get splinters out, fishing kits and a whole lot of other non-surgical uses. I suggest one in any small pocket kit.

I actually like the smaller saw better than the TOPS saw.

Never had a complaint against cheap lead shot, so that's a new one. Why would you need to close them by hand when you can easily press them together with a rock or other hard object?

As far as Ziplocs vs. Aloksak, the Aloksak wins every time when it comes to being tough, IMO. I have ripped way too many ziplocs in the bush. Never torn an Aloksak.

The handcuff key is designed to be taken out of the kit and attached somewhere else. It's not meant to stay in the kit, the same way that a lot of the kit components are used to support other gear than you may have on you in an E&E situation. We did our best to design this kit to be as stand-alone as possible while staying compact but also be used with other components.

Diamode does come in the basic kit, as does Medi-lyte, aspirin, sun screen, DEET, Blistex, sting relief, triple antibiotic ointment bandages, etc.. You either overlooked the Diamode or someone took it from your kit before you got the kit.

The advanced kit also includes the widgy bar, suture and Haemostatic gauze, etc.
 
I think RAT struck a good balance.

Problem with these kits is that if you include everything that would be nice, and made it all top dollar, you'd have a kit that fits in a (small, sportsman's) duffle bag, and costs $400.
 
OK, that's a damn good kit, but add a good fixed blade (from RAT, BRKT, or other such) and a better compass than a standard baseplate and you'll be at $400 plus.

I know the RAT Comprehensive kit is based on that, but again, the RAT CC takes quite a few of the pricier things out.

Not trying to pick nits, just pointing out to the other guy that you can't get the best of the best in a kit like this for the price they are going for, and even if you paid the price, most of the "best" stuff takes up more space and flat out won't FIT, in a kit like the E&E.

My advice, as always, is that if you don't have much of the stuff in one of these kits, then get the kit, and mod it to suit your needs. If you already have most of the stuff, then just add the things you didn't think of. It's easier that way.
 
R.A.T. said:
The cool thing about sutures is they can be used to repair clothing, get splinters out, fishing kits and a whole lot of other non-surgical uses. I suggest one in any small pocket kit.
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Yeah. I'm still thinking of adding one back in. Out of curiosity, do you know anyone who has actually had to use one for field stitiching (skin) and managed it without say a multitool or tweezers?

R.A.T. said:
I actually like the smaller saw better than the TOPS saw.
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I find the small one beds all over the shop and breaks at the hinge quite easily, particularly if you need to cut wire of any thickness. I would love a RAT branded bigger saw, even though I already have a stack of Tops ones. In fack, I'd love to be able to buy additional items, particularily a replacement meds pack. Then I could double up on a few items.

R.A.T. said:
Never had a complaint against cheap lead shot, so that's a new one. Why would you need to close them by hand when you can easily press them together with a rock or other hard object?.
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I find they ping off into the wilderness when I do that. Maybe I lack finesse, So I use the larger simple split shots. I really like the silicone lure though. Gotta get me some more of those and try them out.

R.A.T. said:
As far as Ziplocs vs. Aloksak, the Aloksak wins every time when it comes to being tough, IMO. I have ripped way too many ziplocs in the bush. Never torn an Aloksak.
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What I have in mine at the moment is Aqua-Pouch Plus. I also have a couple of roaster bags with water markings on them. I've never split an Aqua-Pouch and I like that they stand still and you can just drop in your tab. I've also added other faster acting purifying tabs, but kept the Katadyn in there for obvious reasons.

R.A.T. said:
The handcuff key is designed to be taken out of the kit and attached somewhere else. It's not meant to stay in the kit, the same way that a lot of the kit components are used to support other gear than you may have on you in an E&E situation. We did our best to design this kit to be as stand-alone as possible while staying compact but also be used with other components.
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Yeah. In an E&E situation, most of the kit would be distributed about various pockets and what not anyway. Certainly the tools. With a suture you can stitch the key to the back of your trousers, and it's breakaway plastic when you need to get to it.

R.A.T. said:
Diamode does come in the basic kit, as does Medi-lyte, aspirin, sun screen, DEET, Blistex, sting relief, triple antibiotic ointment bandages, etc.. You either overlooked the Diamode or someone took it from your kit before you got the kit.
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No. As I understand it, it's only a half dose of diamode in the pack. I would have liked a second 2mg tablet so that if necessary, I'd at least have a single first dosage.

R.A.T. said:
The advanced kit also includes the widgy bar, suture and Haemostatic gauze, etc.
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Well worth buying if you don't already have these, particularily for the haemostatic gauze which I wouldn't be without.

The primary flaw is the compass. You want to swap that out for a traditional 20mm as soon as possible. Mind you, I wouldn't put a liquid filled compass into my body, but at least it would be pretty much guaranteed to work well. As it is, the 11mm chinese ones are flawed. Mine already has a bubble and won't point north, probably due to flight, but if I were in the wilderness I'd like to hope I could rely on a compass to be at least within 10 degrees of north. Also note that the Widgy bars are magnetised during the galvernising process, and still have a magnetic field, prolonges exposure to this is likely to have a lasting affect on the plastic type compasses. I don't know where it's packed at present, but at the very least, mybe pack the Widgy in the ziplock with the cordage.

All in all it's good well rounded kit. A compass change will make it better for most people. Maybe a magnet warning. The rest is personal preference.



As an aside, are the interval markings on the bottom of the plastic card of any specific purpose, or are they just to fill up the space? They don't seem to correspond to either metric or imperial measurements. I was wondering whet their use was?
 
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texastonydobbs said:
You should not need a magnet warning.... I have flown with my kit and no ill effects...
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No. I don't think I was clear in my explanation.

The constant exposure if compasses over the long term to magnetic fields leads to variation in the polarity of the compass. The source being the constant presence of a galvernised widgy pry bar. Some are more magnetic than others and it varies batch by batch. Or certainly that is my experience based on the stock I carry in my store. I went through my current stock and picked one with only a tiny magnetic affect for my kit.

The other issue with cheap compasses (and the cheaper and smaller the compass, the greater the risk) is the formation of air bubbles in liquid fill. This is due to exposure to variations in air pressure, particularily low air pressure which weakens the compass case seal. The air bubble has an effect on the freedom on the compass to rotate, due to meniscus, and the smaller the compass dial, the harder it is for it to overcome the presence of surface tension (which is not present if there is no bubble). This becomes even more critical at extremely low temperatures, as there is a steady decrease in viscosity of the dampening fluid as the temperature drops, and the presence of an air bubble would compound that.

Bottom line is, a bigger dial compass is always more reliable (espesially when you're talking about button compasses) and the absence of a dampening fluid increases reliability but it takes longer for the dial to settle.

Ergo, the 20mm classic plastic button is the best value for money if you're a kit builder, and the NATO brass button is the most reliable if you're a kit user. Going for the cheapest possible gear is probably not the wisest course of action in my opinion. That is after all why we buy RAT Cutlery in the first place.
 
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I agree with this statement :Bottom line is, a bigger dial compass is always more reliable (espesially when you're talking about button compasses) and the absence of a dampening fluid increases reliability but it takes longer for the dial to settle.

but for the most part the lil' button compass does it's job ... this way N
Magnetic exposure ? Sure that can be said for alot of things... what is the safe distance from my knife blade, my fishing tin,PSK tin.... razor blade inside ...Hooks ... needles...button on my jeans... you should never just pull out the button compass and glance at it and take off in a unknown direction.... let the thing settle and it is for a General direction only....
 
smallcompasses.jpg


I have a few more than this batch. Two of the older USGI button compasses are going in the mail tomorrow as a matter of fact.

I mess around with these things a lot and cross check them with a Brunton Baseplate and a USGI Lensatic. They're going a tad bonkers on the cutting mat here because they are close to each other, they all return to true and are definitely good enough for direction finding. None of them are ever going to win any honors for navigational aids when compared to main compasses.

The Peysers really are excellent compasses but they have an excellent price as well! Opinions vary, of course. I was reading an article over on the Kifaru site and the one Gentleman that was writing about navigation was promoting the British Prismatik Compass as being the absolute best. With a price tag of over $400.00 compared to the current $80.00 or so for our own USGI Lensatic, with Tritium Capsules, it is hard to see how the Prismatik could actually be worth that much more, i.e., four to five times as much, or more, as the USGI Lensatic. But, to each his own.

I have owned the same USGI Lensatic for a little over 20 years now and have owned a Recta Matchbox Compass for a bit longer...Suunto now makes one, and that particular type of compass is perhaps the best tradeoff between these smaller compasses like the Suunto Clipper Compass and a full-size baseplate or lensatic style of compass...opinions, again, will vary.
 
Nice little collection. I believe you can buy the 20mm plastic button with or without the liquid fill.

I use a good old military issue Silva baseplate compass for hiking and whatnot. Had it since I was in the scouts and got it from my dad who got it from supplies. We were a military family. For button compass, I carry both a plastic 20mm liquid filled and a Pyser Fracis Baker NATO brass button. They are the best, and without a baseplate compass, if I had to rely on one, it would be that one.

As regards prolonged exposure within a magnetic field, the smaller the dial, the more succeptable and the more pronounced the problem. So your little 11mm button compass with it's widgy next to it, could be pointing north east, but then, provided there isn't an air bubble in it, at least it would be consistent.
 
R.A.T. said:
Diamode does come in the basic kit, as does Medi-lyte, aspirin, sun screen, DEET, Blistex, sting relief, triple antibiotic ointment bandages, etc.. You either overlooked the Diamode or someone took it from your kit before you got the kit.
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The Diamode is there...but only one tablet; a half dose for an adult. It was something I noticed also and figured I'd suppliment it with some more after I went through the kit and added/subtracted stuff.

Still waiting to clear off a area of my desk to lay everything out:foot:
 
I was aware that SF guys used Silva Rangers but was not aware they were assigned a NSN.

The 20mm does come in a dry variation which is the compass Jeff recommended for inclusion in the screw on cap of the RAT Fire Kit. They are made in China for Sun Compasses.

The collection is dissipating! The two GI buttons up top are going out to a fellow tomorrow in the mail and the 1960's USGI wrist compass in the top left is on the chopping block next!
 
R Lewis said:
Great thread guys. Think I will have to urchase the Advanced kit.
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Advanced kit is well worth the money and well thought out. You need to swap out the compass, even if it's to another plastic button, but having discussions like these is good. Too many survival forums are full of people who sit around watching BG and just like to talk about their gear. You guys are lucky in that most of the gear is US sourced and you can suppliment the meds quite easily. It's much harder to get stuff in the UK (with the exception of the Pyser compass which is a UK item I believe?), particularly individually wrapped meds, and simple things like widgys and the likes. I've had to import a lot of stuff from the US.

Yes. Go buy a kit. At the price you guys pay it is well worth it.
Over here the Basic is £103 and the Advanced is £132.
 
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