-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
RAT E&E Kit
- Thread starter Josh K
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2009
- Messages
- 79
No axe to grind.
For the record, and I think I said it before, the E&E kit I bought is one of the best kits around. And for the record, I have spend almost $400 this month on RAT products. That said, if I offer constructive criticism on a product that I purchase, and follow that up with imperical evidence and advice on how you can improve an otherwice excellent product, I don't expect you to be afronted by it. At the very most I made a claim that you supply a questionable component and I took it apart and prove it. You are offended that I point out that you can switch out the compasses for a model less likely to fail, one that you already carry in stock, and one that has marginal cost impact to your company? How odd a reaction from a company that pride themselves on providing excellence of product and excellence of service to their target market.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
I'm sorry it took so long to get the answer. To be honest, I kept forgetting to talk to the Pharmacist I know well enough to ask "survival-related" questions.
He is originally an Army-trained Pharmacist and he is about 72 years old now and this has been his business all of his life so you can take these cautions as Gospel but you also have to remember that it is through my filter, I'm not a Doctor or Pharmacist so take this as a general guideline and nothing more, please.
The problem with expiration dates, especially with antibiotics but also with other drugs, is that due to oxidation, storage temperature and sometimes UV exposure with some, the chemical compounds in the pill can change and this change can be dangerous to the patient.
He agreed that if you can have a stable environment 60 - 72 degrees F. and pulled a vacuum seal on them, they would last much longer than the expiration date but that expectation could not be met necessarily with "survival-related" storage situations not because you could not pull a vacuum seal in a kit but because of the extremes in temperature, especially with extremes of heat.
He also said that some pharmaceutical companies have ratings as high as five years and have tested them through accelerated oxidation trials, etc., but you would have to do a lot of digging to find that information.
More on Potasium Permanganate:
As close as thirty years ago, Pharmaceutical Company Eli-Lilly manufactured Potassium Permanganate in a pill form and these were specific concentrations and X number of tablets in X amount of water would give you (X) specific concentration for whatever Rx needed. It was not only used for fungal skin infections, but Rx'd by Dermatologists for other skin infections and ailments although he could not remember which one because it has not been done in his experience since the late 1970s. He also said that it was a very effective treatment.
He doesn't think that the tablets are manufactured by any mainstream Pharmaceutical Company any longer.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
You have to understand something as well. You joined Bladeforums last month, as of this post you have 39 posts and right out of the gate in your earliest posts you have posted on this issue.
I have had E-mail conversations with you on other things and you seem like a nice enough guy. You also have to understand forum dynamics and the low post count and the fact that you are Mr. Anonymous to RAT Cutlery, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
Take it easy.
As for your critique of button compasses being off X number of degrees, one degree over a certain distance will put you off track quite a bit. There is NO button compass that can perform on this level. I don't even know if the excellent little Suunto Clipper could manage that. You need baseplate or lensatic compasses to start playing that degree of accuracy.
R.A.T.
Randall's Adventure & Training
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Messages
- 10,400
Not upset at all. You are the one that made the statement "Floating disk compasses are all made the same BTW, regardless of size." Like I said, we're beating a dead horse. I have already agreed that a better compass should be in ANY kit, so I am not "reacting" and we do in fact pride ourselves on excellent product and customer service. Are we going to jack the cost of the kit up to provide that? No, not when upgrading to a 20mm is much of an upgrade in quality. Again, we have answered your question so do you wish to continue to grind on this axe?
Like I said, not upset at all but when someone challenges me with a statement like you made "So the only question is, shouldn't RAT be placing US products that are quality checked in their RAT E&E Kits?" then expect a response. If you feel you should be running our company, we will be happy to sell it to you. If you can do better than our company, then we invite you to start your own and throw your hat in the ring.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2009
- Messages
- 913
Not upset at all. You are the one that made the statement "Floating disk compasses are all made the same BTW, regardless of size." Like I said, we're beating a dead horse. I have already agreed that a better compass should be in ANY kit, so I am not "reacting" and we do in fact pride ourselves on excellent product and customer service. Are we going to jack the cost of the kit up to provide that? No, not when upgrading to a 20mm is much of an upgrade in quality. Again, we have answered your question so do you wish to continue to grind on this axe?
Like I said, not upset at all but when someone challenges me with a statement like you made "So the only question is, shouldn't RAT be placing US products that are quality checked in their RAT E&E Kits?" then expect a response. If you feel you should be running our company, we will be happy to sell it to you. If you can do better than our company, then we invite you to start your own and throw your hat in the ring.
Jeff, I have been using your products for several years now, and as ya'll know i just joined this forum and rat pack....However in the short time I have been here I can definately see the man in the product......to the point, no frills, just hard working blue collar and don't take SHIT FROM NO ONE!
Drew
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
I have watched Jeff take a mountain of shit in this forum sometimes and he is relentlessly nice and ruthlessly polite to people who are running him in circles from post to post.
There is a time in a debate like this on button compasses to say, none of them are for calling in artillery, they are all basic direction finders, even the best of them...which I own a few of as well. Perhaps it is wrong to even call them a compass in the classic sense of the word. Sure, they are a magnetic direction finder but nothing like a proper compass. I always called them "Thataway" Compasses because, truly, that is what they are good for.
I think when you start talking about degrees and a button compass, you're either picking gnat shit out of pepper or debating something to the point of losing whatever point you had to start with. I have used button compasses to get back out of the woods. Sometimes you're 100 yards farther down the road then where you parked in unfamiliar territory and sometimes you are 7/10ths of a mile away.
At least you get out.
There is a time in a debate like this on button compasses to say, none of them are for calling in artillery, they are all basic direction finders, even the best of them...which I own a few of as well. Perhaps it is wrong to even call them a compass in the classic sense of the word. Sure, they are a magnetic direction finder but nothing like a proper compass. I always called them "Thataway" Compasses because, truly, that is what they are good for.
I think when you start talking about degrees and a button compass, you're either picking gnat shit out of pepper or debating something to the point of losing whatever point you had to start with. I have used button compasses to get back out of the woods. Sometimes you're 100 yards farther down the road then where you parked in unfamiliar territory and sometimes you are 7/10ths of a mile away.
At least you get out.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2009
- Messages
- 913
I always felt the Point of button compasses were to give general direction and stop my dumb ass from going in circles in woods or where ever......there are not for finding pirate treasure on a topo map.....Drew
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 7,035
Yeah, dude those compasses suck.
The best disk compasses have the disk made of titanium, instead of polyethylene. That way, you can disassemble them and sharpen the edge into a make-shift shuriken. They can then be used to dispatch enemy sentries or thrown through steel-clad bunker doors, making for easy ingress and egress.
The best disk compasses have the disk made of titanium, instead of polyethylene. That way, you can disassemble them and sharpen the edge into a make-shift shuriken. They can then be used to dispatch enemy sentries or thrown through steel-clad bunker doors, making for easy ingress and egress.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Messages
- 490
thats why i carry a pack of mre crackers packs cpl
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 388
Never argue with an idiot, they just take you down to their level and beat you with experience.
R.A.T.
Randall's Adventure & Training
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Messages
- 10,400
I really don't think the guy is an idiot or troll. I think he's just stuck on making a point that has already been made. Think about it, any person that would tear apart the compass, photograph it and give that detailed of a post is not a troll or an idiot. I respect him making his point in such a detailed fashion. I honestly believe he is merely trying to inform people of what he believes. I don't have a problem with that. But the point has already been made, and, I have agreed with what he's saying several posts back. I just don't like to be challenged when there's no reason for it.
Again:
As Don pointed out, there have been a lot of times people have come on and disagreed with our philosophy, posts or products. We always try to be nice. Hell, Don and I have had some serious debates over philosophy but we always walk away friends. I figure if we all can't argue and walk away at least respecting the other side's position, then we're pretty much useless as men. RAT Cutlery realizes that we DO NOT make the best knives or products in the business, however we do our best to strive for that goal while maintaining reasonable prices.
Again:
As Don pointed out, there have been a lot of times people have come on and disagreed with our philosophy, posts or products. We always try to be nice. Hell, Don and I have had some serious debates over philosophy but we always walk away friends. I figure if we all can't argue and walk away at least respecting the other side's position, then we're pretty much useless as men. RAT Cutlery realizes that we DO NOT make the best knives or products in the business, however we do our best to strive for that goal while maintaining reasonable prices.
Last edited:
R.A.T.
Randall's Adventure & Training
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Messages
- 10,400
Jeff, I have been using your products for several years now, and as ya'll know i just joined this forum and rat pack....However in the short time I have been here I can definately see the man in the product......to the point, no frills, just hard working blue collar and don't take SHIT FROM NO ONE!
Drew
Drew, we appreciate your support and trust when it comes to buying and using our products. Our customers do in fact mean everything to us. Even the ones that get upset about the 11mm compass.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
It helps when both people arguing and bitching want to go in the same direction and the argument or disagreement is about how you get there. It's funny that this is the same type of thing you outlined about the compass critique.
You have walked a tightrope on the compass issue and I think you have done well. Everything in life is a trade-off, nothing is free, nothing. You remove one thing, replace another, doesn't matter. There is always going to be something that has to be dealt with. Nobody wants to hear that you might want to replace a compass in a kit that costs $100.00! You can check the compass and if it is close enough, accurate enough, it WOULD be a good idea to put a Silva zipper pull compass or a Suunto Clipper compass on/in the kit. I like redundancy, some people think redundancy is B.S., some think it is the mark of a "weaker" person that has to rely more on "gear" than "bushcraft" and I think that is a very dangerous thing to do on both sides of the spectrum. I don't think being a full-blown Tom Brown guy is going to save you anymore than being a full-blown gearhead.
It's nice of you to say, it's very humble. But, to be totally blunt, RAT Cutlery offers an excellent product and for outdoor/survival purposes when you consider the price...yeah, RAT Cutlery probaby is the best. I don't look at RAT knives as Les Baer .45s or a tricked out Munden SAA .45, I look at them like a Glock-17, Sig-Sauer P220 or even a S&W M10 or M15, they're solid tools and they don't pretend to be "custom" or anything else.
R.A.T.
Randall's Adventure & Training
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2004
- Messages
- 10,400
You nailed it, Don. That's exactly our intended goal! We're looking for something that you can throw in the ditch,not caring if you scratch it or beat it up a bit, but knowing that it's going to do it's job even though it may not do specific tasks as good as something more specialized.
To quote a famous line...."Specialization is for insects"
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2009
- Messages
- 913
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
If you decide to go that route...and it's an expensive one now and I don't see gold going down below $500.00 ever again... A single, one-ounce of gold K-rand might not be the way to go. That's a chunk of change, when gold was cheaper, that was the way to go. I think for E&E purposes, you would be better off with several 1/10th and 1/4 Oz. Fractionals. The purists will tell you that the Fractionals are not really "K-rands" but you get the idea.
You don't want to get into a situation where you have one big coin and that's what you have to take to the game to barter with. You're going to get screwed over or there is going to be some violence, etc.
I would also not take the advice of the gold peddlers because they will have you purchasing gold on the "Roosevelt Model." Meaning, you purchase the coins that also have numismatic value above and beyond the gold content because when Roosevelt made people turn in the gold, they had to turn in bullion - gold that had no numismatic value, per se. But there is NO guarantee whatsoever that if the government decides to once again ban the private possession of gold bullion that they will do it the same way over again. This allows precious metals dealers to artificially inflate the cost of their product through fear-mongering. It's crisis creation at its finest, just like politicians do.
I would not screw around with Swiss Francs or British Sovereigns unless you are going to travel in Europe, etc. I would not advise Canadian Maple Leafs and would definitely not recommend American Gold Eagles because they have a common denomination struck on them and the last thing you need is to hassle with a moron about that in some back alley to get your kid an asthma inhaler on the black market...or...whatever.
K-rand Fractionals as well as Credit Suisse and a few other Fractional Bars would be a good idea.
Don't mess with Paladium, Rhodium and definitely not Platinum.
Silver is good, especially in one, five and ten ounce bars.
Edited to add: Also, consider cheap wedding bands only in 10K and 14K, don't mess with 18K or higher or you will lose your ass on deals anyway. World War Two Gold Barter Kits had rings in them as well as coins.
When I write an article for my website, I have the items on hand and have tested them, etc. I did write an article on the Gold Barter Kits though, I never owned one! Wish I had a dozen of them!
http://www.donrearic.com/ww2kits.htm
You don't want to get into a situation where you have one big coin and that's what you have to take to the game to barter with. You're going to get screwed over or there is going to be some violence, etc.
I would also not take the advice of the gold peddlers because they will have you purchasing gold on the "Roosevelt Model." Meaning, you purchase the coins that also have numismatic value above and beyond the gold content because when Roosevelt made people turn in the gold, they had to turn in bullion - gold that had no numismatic value, per se. But there is NO guarantee whatsoever that if the government decides to once again ban the private possession of gold bullion that they will do it the same way over again. This allows precious metals dealers to artificially inflate the cost of their product through fear-mongering. It's crisis creation at its finest, just like politicians do.
I would not screw around with Swiss Francs or British Sovereigns unless you are going to travel in Europe, etc. I would not advise Canadian Maple Leafs and would definitely not recommend American Gold Eagles because they have a common denomination struck on them and the last thing you need is to hassle with a moron about that in some back alley to get your kid an asthma inhaler on the black market...or...whatever.
K-rand Fractionals as well as Credit Suisse and a few other Fractional Bars would be a good idea.
Don't mess with Paladium, Rhodium and definitely not Platinum.
Silver is good, especially in one, five and ten ounce bars.
Edited to add: Also, consider cheap wedding bands only in 10K and 14K, don't mess with 18K or higher or you will lose your ass on deals anyway. World War Two Gold Barter Kits had rings in them as well as coins.
When I write an article for my website, I have the items on hand and have tested them, etc. I did write an article on the Gold Barter Kits though, I never owned one! Wish I had a dozen of them!
http://www.donrearic.com/ww2kits.htm