RAT vs. Busse?

I would like to have a Busse to put in storage with my other expensive knives, but for everyday use I'll stick with my RAT RC-4 and Izula.
 
Ken44 said:
IMO your wrong on the first part. I don't know one person that has Busse's that doesn't use at least one, many use all they have. Many do collect, which is a great past time that I have long done with many types/brands of knives, but also use many of my knives(also worked with knife for living).

And the "ridculas amount of money" isn't really correct either. For instance at this years Blade show I got a 6" bladed busse in Satin with hand shaped BP for $283 with tax. A great deal for the qaulity of knife.

I've been a huge knife and gun nut for over 30 years and top notch qaulity is what i choose to spend my money on. Some people will never understand why some middle class(on poor side of that in my case) will spend so much on knives when we drive around in a truck with 200,00 miles, put off buying cloths for self, and sacrifice in areas just so we can buy knives. But there are many that do just that for something they love and are passionate about. Yes, I'm a knife nut, and maybe to much of one, but I'm happy with it.


to the OP...the two knives you mention are at two very diff price points. So it all depends on what you want in a knife for what you pay. The RAT's are a Great knife for the price! Busse is a Great knife for the price!
I feel the Busse steel, designs, options, qaulity build, and esp the comfort of the handle over a RAT is worth the extra $ to me. But in all reallity the RAT will handle most any task I could think of.
Just depends on how YOU want to spend YOUR money.
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:thumbup:
 
Ken44 said:
You can thin the edge and its still covered. Only if you use a power tool that may affect heat treat is the warrranty void.
And yes they have as good or better edge stability than most steels.

Your talking about ole Nozh with that thin edge,lol. He had some formula saying it was 30degree, then said that was wrong, Then did it with clay and measured that and said he was wrong, only to come back and say he measured wrong and he was in fact right afterall. It was much thinner than 30. I would not take his advice IMO.
Jerry still told him he to just send it in and he would fix or replace it under warranty, but he would measure edge angle and post in room. Pretty sure Nozh never sent it back.
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that knife was likely closer to 15 degrees inclusive.

30 degrees would be acceptable in most arenas here, less than ~25 and i think one is really pushing the limits of edge stability. nohz's edge was so acute you could probably damage it with a fingernail.
 
imaginefj said:
Some say that SR101 holds an edge better, it also costs alot less than the INFI version.
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Maybe, but not the people who actually make the knives.

I think the S5 is a good buy, I think the S5 LE is overpriced, cheap for INFI maybe BUT overpriced IMho.
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$200 for the best knife in its class? I think it's dirt cheap.
 
I, personally, like both company's products.

RAT Cutlery knives are damn nice, and will likely do anything you ever need a knife to do.
They sharpen easily, they hold their edges well, they slice well, not so great as choppers. The only real criticism of them is the slab-sided nature of their scales, but they don't feel bad, just not great. What they won't do is handle the abuse that a Busse will.

There's a few reasons to buy a Busse:
1.) You want one. I'd say this is, by far, the main reason people buy them. If that's your reason, don't bother looking for another, eventually you'll buy one anyway.

2.) They work. I think people poo-poo Busse because of the price, and to a lesser extent, they limited numbers and time frame each knife is offered in. Can you get another knife, for less $$, that will do the same KNIFE chores? Sure.
Are there things (people mostly cite fine work) that a Busse won't do? Depends on the model. If you are comparing the fuzz stick capability of a FFBM (Fat Fusion Battle Mistress) to an RC3, yeah, the FFBM isn't going to fare well. But it's a strawman argument, since anyone with any sense knows the fattys are choppers. Comparing Busse to RAT, the Busse BAD is almost the same size, identical blade profile, thickness, distal taper, flat grind to 20 degree final bevel as the RC3. It'll do EXACTLY the same work, just as easily. The Skinny ASH-1, Hellrazor, etc, are 6" long, .187" thick, flat grind to 20 degree final bevel blades, same as the RC6. The RC6 does fine at fuzz sticks, slicing veggies, notching wood, etc, and the Busses work just the same. So if someone tells you that Busses can't do [X], it's because they are comparing knives not designed to do what they want, and should have chosen a more appropriate model.

3.) Some guys, like SAR folk, may have to go out in the boonies to rescue people and not know what exact things they'll have to accomplish. They carry enough as it is, so if they can get away with carrying a knife that can chop, slice, pry and hammer, because those need to be done or someone dies, then they are some of the few who may actually NEED a Busse.

One application I prefer the RAT in is that of the Get Home Bag. Precisely because it can do all my knife chore, yet I'm out far less money and hassle if it gets stolen than if I had a Busse.

To be honest, this all comes down to preference for the most part. There are so many good makers out there, and really, you can make just about any sharpened piece of metal work, so buy what strikes your fancy, and go for it.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
that knife was likely closer to 15 degrees inclusive.

30 degrees would be acceptable in most arenas here, less than ~25 and i think one is really pushing the limits of edge stability. nohz's edge was so acute you could probably damage it with a fingernail.
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Personally I don't go below 20 degrees each side for 40 degrees total on my field blades becuase I find a 40 degree edge holds up great for chopping and other field cutting tasks. :)
 
Ankerson said:
Personally I don't go below 20 degrees each side for 40 degrees total on my field blades becuase I find a 40 degree edge holds up great for chopping and other field cutting tasks. :)
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i normally keep mine at about the same.

mainly because the sharpmaker stones have the 40 degree setting and it makes for easy touch ups. most of the knives i have came with an edge pretty close to 40 degrees anyway.

i have also never found myself wishing for a more acute edge angle while cutting something.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
i normally keep mine at about the same.

mainly because the sharpmaker stones have the 40 degree setting and it makes for easy touch ups. most of the knives i have came with an edge pretty close to 40 degrees anyway.

i have also never found myself wishing for a more acute edge angle while cutting something.
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Me niether, if the angle is much less than 20 degrees they just don't hold up long in the field under heavy use.
 
I have another question, does busse combat have an equivalent to the scrapyard sod? I can't figure out their lingo of acronyms :p
 
Cpl Punishment said:
RAT Cutlery knives are damn nice, and will likely do anything you ever need a knife to do.
They sharpen easily, they hold their edges well, they slice well, not so great as choppers. The only real criticism of them is the slab-sided nature of their scales, but they don't feel bad, just not great. What they won't do is handle the abuse that a Busse will.
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Exactly!

There's a few reasons to buy a Busse:
Are there things (people mostly cite fine work) that a Busse won't do? Depends on the model. If you are comparing the fuzz stick capability of a FFBM (Fat Fusion Battle Mistress) to an RC3, yeah, the FFBM isn't going to fare well. But it's a strawman argument, since anyone with any sense knows the fattys are choppers. Comparing Busse to RAT, the Busse BAD is almost the same size, identical blade profile, thickness, distal taper, flat grind to 20 degree final bevel as the RC3. It'll do EXACTLY the same work, just as easily. The Skinny ASH-1, Hellrazor, etc, are 6" long, .187" thick, flat grind to 20 degree final bevel blades, same as the RC6. The RC6 does fine at fuzz sticks, slicing veggies, notching wood, etc, and the Busses work just the same. So if someone tells you that Busses can't do [X], it's because they are comparing knives not designed to do what they want, and should have chosen a more appropriate model.

3.) Some guys, like SAR folk, may have to go out in the boonies to rescue people and not know what exact things they'll have to accomplish. They carry enough as it is, so if they can get away with carrying a knife that can chop, slice, pry and hammer, because those need to be done or someone dies, then they are some of the few who may actually NEED a Busse.
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I think that these comments actually hit the nail on the head. Indeed, there is no point in comparing a FFBM with an RC-4 for stew preparation. The FFBM was not made for such tasks (albeit it can handle them) as it is a chopper so yes, the RC-4 will clearly be a better choice for the task at hand. But have you tried the performance of a Culti Combat or, a properly sharpened Meaner Street or an Active Duty? Those knives will slice with the best.
The problem that I do find with Busse knives is limited availability. On the other hand this is a main reason for which they bring more money to those who will sell them in the secondary market.
Having said this I do not mean to put down RAT Cutlery knives in any way. Besides, I have a great respect for properly heat treated 1095 and I own a good number of custom made knives made of it. But in comparing similar models from both Busse Combat and RAT Cutlery I think Busse's will come ahead.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
that knife was likely closer to 15 degrees inclusive.
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That's pretty close to the angle I keep on my primary hard use outdoor fixed blade. It has a 4.5 inch blade in A2 at 58 HRC. I've batoned the crap out of this knife and never had the edge roll, just a very small dent or two from contacting rock. It is 3/16ths thick and only weighs 6 ounces and yet I've been able to chop 3 inch pieces of hard wood faster than bigger, heavier knives with thicker grinds. Thin your edge to the limit of its performance, it just makes cutting easier :thumbup:
 
rat knives are awesome, just make sure it has the rowen name on it and not the ontario.

now for busse, it is a brotherhood and sisterhood, the busse knife collectors/users are a very close knit family and enjoy each others company, then you have a awesome knife that will never let you down.

i have both and enjoy them very much, the rat knives are in a very much different price range of course and perform well.
 
Lycosa said:
Both are Great blades. Busse's are a little better. :cool:
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Generalize much, Rolf?:rolleyes: "Better" at what, and how?:confused: I don't doubt you, but it sure would be nice to see you explain what you mean when you say, "Busses are a little better."
 
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